Talk:Scottish Episcopal Church/Archive 1

Part of Anglican Commumion
Is the Scottish Episcopal Church a member of the Anglican Communion? If so, I think the article should say so. Michael Hardy 00:43 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * Yes it is. There's lots that could be said!  I would like to go through the list of Provinces and actually make a page for each one.  (And the list should really be on Anglican Communion and not just List of Denominations.  So my inclination is not to spend a lot of energy on just one, when I plan to make them all according to a standardized format soon enough.  --Tb 00:56 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)

This section is very unhelpful for three reasons: it is inaccurate to say that the SEC was a member of the Anglican Communion from 1867 - what this really means is that its bishops were invited to the first Lambeth Conference (along with all the others). Strictly speaking the term Anglican Communion is anachronistic in the introduction - it was in use but not officially and certainly not commonly for at least another decade. Lastly, Primacy is a technical term, it is inaccurate to say that SEC accepts Canterbury's primacy - the only provinces that do that are Canterbury and York: all the rest are independent branches of the Anglican Communion who give a place of honour to Abp. Cant. but are subject to their own primates.David (talk) 17:01, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Number of Dioceses
I've corrected the number of dioceses to 7 and also made clearer the distinction between who governs the church (General Synod) and who leads it (the College of Bishops). --[KH - 1 Nov 2004]

Request for cleanup
This article contains a lot of good information, but the introduction is too long and the flow is not good. I shall attempt to see what I can do. Davidkinnen 10:14, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Proper name
Isn't it technically "the Episcopal Church of Scotland"?


 * No. The name used in the canons is the "Scottish Episcopal Church"

Regional strength
Didn't know where to put this, "especially strong in the North East, and Edinburgh, and historically in the Highlands."

Many prominent North East families were Episcopalian.

Also most of the Jacobite combatants in the 45 appear to have been Episcopalian NOT RC, as is often stated. --MacRusgail 15:41, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * For info on the latter point, see Jacobitism: IIRC, sources were The Jacobites, Britain and Europe 1688 &mdash; 1788, Daniel Szechi, Manchester University Press 1994 ISBN 0-7190-3774-3 and The Myths of the Jacobite Clans, Murray G. H. Pittock, Edinburgh University Press 1995 ISBN 0-7486-0715-3 ...dave souza, talk 07:21, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

population of scottish episcopal church
I see on the page that there are roughly 124 000 members & 300-odd clergy as of "1900". Are those the most recent statistics? Or is "1900" a mistake - is that as of "2000"?

What does this mean?
" The official recognition of George III on the death of Charles Edward in 1788, removed the chief bar to progress. The qualified congregations were gradually absorbed, though traces of this ecclesiastical solecism still linger. " I'm sorry, but I don't understand this (which is a problem for an encyclopedia article--it is supposed to be easily understood and explain things instead of confusing people). The link to solecism talks about grammar. Why did the non-jurors recognize George III instead of the Jacobitic heir Henry IX, Cardinal Bishop of Frascati? What were the qualified congregations?--Bhuck 07:52, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Uniform format proposal
A proposal is being floated at the project page that there be a standard format for organising each article about national provinces of the Anglican Communion, including this one. Please consider participating in the straw vote and discussion. Cheers! Fishhead64 21:47, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Anglicanism
The Scottish Episcopal Church is a member of the Anglican Communion (not just "in communion with the Anglican churches"), in what sense then is it not Anglican (other than not directly being a daughter church of the Church of England)? The American Episcopalians have no problem with the template being on the ECUSA article. What specifically is misleading about the template or does not apply to the Scottish Episcopal Church? The template is undergoing a number of changes at the moment, so if you feel there is something else that needs to be added to it to reflect the differing origins of the Scottish Episcopal Church, then that can probably be sorted out. David Underdown 12:36, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Indeed. The Old Catholics are in communion with the Anglican churches, as are the Lutheran signatories to the Porvoo Agreement, but Anglicanism doesn't belong on those pages. The Scottish Episcopal Church is not "in communion" with the Anglican churches, it is one. —Angr 14:45, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Note also where Episcopalianism re-directs to, and what Episcopalian gives you. David Underdown 15:02, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm... the fact that Episcopalianism redirects to Anglicanism seems to be a holdover from when Episcopalian redirected there too, rather than being a disambig page. Episcopalianism really ought to redirect to Episcopalian (as it originally did), so I'll go fix that now. —Angr 15:23, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Denomination Info Box
There are going to be huge issues with this box throughout the anglican communion pages. This is going to create a POV nightmare here and I am removing it before it starts. Let's see what's here, shall we?

Orientation: Anglican Orientation? What is that? Neologisim from what I can tell. There has been some heated debate here about who is an Anglican. Orientation is what is splitting the communion in two.

Origin: 1689 Why were there bishops here when William and Mary showed up? What church did they belong to? Surely not the Kirk? This will cause POV problems from the time of ancient Celtic Church forward.

This box just is not a good fit for the Scottish Episcopal Churh or probably any of the Churches in union with Canterbury. Thoughts? -- SECisek 05:01, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

List cruft
I removed the following: Notable Scottish Episcopalians Adds nothing and isn't big enough to stand on its own. -- SECisek 09:00, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Patrick Campbell Rodger, Provost of St Mary's Cathedral, Edinburgh
 * George Gleig, Primus
 * Alexander Penrose Forbes, Bishop of Brechin
 * Robert Keith, bishop and historian
 * Joseph Lister, 1st Baron Lister, surgeon
 * Michael Russell, Scottish National Party (SNP) politician
 * John Skinner, historian and song-writer
 * James Syme, surgeon
 * Archibald Campbell Tait, Archbishop of Canterbury
 * Andrew Wilson, Scottish National Party (SNP) politician
 * Richard Holloway, Primus, Bishop of Edinburgh, writer and broadcaster
 * Alexander McCall Smith, writer
 * John Stuart, 3rd Earl of Bute, Prime Minister of Great Britain (1762-1763)

Origins
The "Origins" part of the History section deals with events at least half a millenium before the distinct origins of what would become the Scottish Episcopal Church. These events are common to the origins of the other major churches in Scotland - including the Roman Catholic, Church of Scotland, its offshoots etc. - and many of the minor ones. To apparently claim this history for the Scottish Episcopal Church alone, without either justification of this or at least to mention the commonality with other churches makes its inclusion inaccurate, probably redundant here (though the Christianity part of Religion in Scotland could benefit), maybe even disingenuous. Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:52, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've made it clearer (I hope) that the early history refers to Christianity in scotland more generally. I think we need to have some sort of overview, as it helps to understand (to some extentn at least) why the Reformation in Scotland took a different path to that in other countries.  David Underdown (talk) 08:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

The change in title is an improvement but I'm unclear as to how this section sheds any light on "why the Reformation in Scotland took a different path to that in other countries", or indeed anything else specifically regarding the Scottish Episcopal Church.

History of the Scottish Episcopal Church has similar issues, by the way. Mutt Lunker (talk) 21:50, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * A separate identity until relatively late on, which had not been entirely forgotten. I'm from south of the border, so I'm probably not the best person to work on this - I don't really ahve the sources either. I'll try to make similar changes to the other article.  David Underdown (talk) 09:01, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Personal Ordinariate
Apart from the Traditional Anglican Communion, the article should really consider verifying whether groups within the Scottish Episcopal Church have ever sought a similar canonical structure to the proposed personal ordinariates. ADM (talk) 18:08, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Membership
Where does this figure of 361,000 come from? According to the Religion in Scotland page, all "Other Christian" respondents (i.e., those not Church of Scotland or Roman Catholic members) combined to number 344,000 - and not all are members of the Scottish Episcopal Church. One of these two pages has the wrong data. 68.62.16.149 (talk) 03:27, 13 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Religion in Scotland is accurate. I checked its source 344,600.  No mention of the Scottish Episcopal Church in the report that I could find.  It did breakdown the write ins of people who answered "other religion" (but not "other christian").  I note that  has 54,000 as the size of the church. --Erp (talk) 07:25, 5 July 2010 (UTC)


 * And the BBC has 39,000 as the number of members. The way things are going we'll be down to just the bishops and priests in the membership.:-)--Erp (talk) 05:51, 23 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The bbc thought "estimated 45,000 members" here back in 2005. There are "about 44,000 members" according to Anglicans Online.  Springnuts (talk) 11:53, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

How many clergy.
I have been trying to track down a sourced figure for the number of clergy. The church office say they send out mailings to 452 clergy, but this is OR, and may include retired clergy. Anyone have access to the latest Annual Report (blue book)? That should have good membership figures too. Springnuts (talk) 11:45, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Queen Elizabeth
If I understand correctly, Queen Elizabeth has a formal role in the Church of Scotland, and not in the SEC. Are the 2 Churches in communion? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 01:20, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 05:37, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Structure - repetition
It says twice that the presiding bishop is elected - merge the two paragraphs, cutting out the repetition. Mdrb55 (talk) 13:12, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

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