Talk:Scottish Premier League

Should Not Redirect From "Scottish Premier Division"
This page should not appear when you type "Scottish Premier Division" into the search box. The Scottish Premier Division refers to the old league and this situation is annoying when you wish to find league standings for the SPD as this page only provides links for the SPL years - 1998 - 2008. At the very least, the box at the bottom with links to "Scottish Premier League seasons" should include seasons before 1998. Blankfrackis (talk) 23:13, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If you look at this category: Category:Scottish Premier League seasons, You can see their are some premier division articles, I don't know if you are aware of that, before that there are the seasons in Scottish football articles. I don't know how to categorise the premier division articles as that is obliviously not the correct category but the league name changed very often so it would not be wise to create a category for every time the league changed it's name or to put those articles in a template which is for SPL seasons. If there were more top-division articles from before the SPL started, they could be categorised as for example: top-flight football in Scotland before x but obliviously it is not worth creating a category like that for four articles. If that makes any sense, I am sure it doesn’t. Darryl.matheson (talk) 13:53, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't say it matters whether they have their own category or whether they're put in the same category, so long as there's an easy way to access them. At present the Scottish Premier Division articles are in some sort of limbo where they are neither fully integrated with the SPL articles nor given their own category. For instance, in this article the "Prior to 1998/99" section discusses the existence of the Premier Division, but the link just redirects straight back to the SPL page. If someone was interested in looking for information on the Premier Division they really have no easy way to find it - typing "Scottish Premier Division" takes you to the SPL page and the link in this article to the Premier Division also redirects to the SPL page. I think either the Premier Division should be fully discussed in this article or it should just have its own page - the latter option being the best in my opinion as you wouldn't need to greatly change the SPL article. Blankfrackis (talk) 15:34, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I have to agree with Blankfrackis, the page for the Scottish Premier DIVISION should NOT redirect! The sooner this is sorted the better! 77.102.138.219 (talk) 13:03, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Peterhead & Elgin City
Text from Scottish Football League, but concerning this league, says "When the SPL decided to expand from ten to twelve clubs in 2000 the league elected two new clubs, Peterhead and Elgin City." This would be consistent if this article were older, but a list of the SPL teams shows 12 SPL teams, none of them including the two in question; on the same article, the two are (still?) included in SFL. --Jerzy 15:55, 2003 Nov 12 (UTC)

It means that the league (SFL) elected them into membership to replace the two clubs they lost to the SPL, not that the SPL elected them to their membership. Big Jim Fae Scotland

Scottish Premier League 1-0 Scottish Premierleague
If you look at the SPL's site, you will see that it says "The Official Scottish Premier League Website". So the page should be kept at Scottish Premier League SimonMayer 13:46, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * The sponsorship name does seem to be Bank of Scotland Premierleague though, so I've added that to the article. Sjorford 14:02, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Can anyone find a citation for the new name: 'HBOS Premiership'?

HBOS Premiership?
No-one I know has heard from any official sources that the name has been changed to the "HBOS Premiership". This change would make no sense as HBOS is a purely corporate identity and has no real significance where consumers are concerned. Besides, the Bank of Scotland's (or HBOS's or Halifax & Bank of Scotland's) sponsorship of the SPL ends at the end of season 2006-07 and will not be renewed. This makes a name change for this season even more ridiculous.


 * A search on Google for "HBOS Premiership" does return several hundred results though, so it can't just have been a figment of someone's imagination. Kennethmac2000 21:03, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I think that is because English people sometimes apply the names of their competitions to competitions in other leagues. 82.41.202.199 17:41, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Record Win
The Record Win on the page states it as being the 8-1 scoreline my beloved Dunfermline got hammered by last year.

There are however been a few 7-0's down the years and surely they hmust have at least some equal claim to the title, as the margin of victory was seven goals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryan86 (talk • contribs)


 * Nah, sorry mate - doesn't work that way - 7-0 might arguably match 8-2, but 8-1 will always beat 7-0 - more goals! :P Camillus (talk) 12:15, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


 * How does 8-2 match 7-0? 7-0 Is a seven-goal lead, with a clean sheet, surely making it just as high a win as 8-1, possibly higher as the other team failed to score! 86.132.164.8 14:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

SPL Record: All-time appearances
On the all-time records page, the goal difference doesn't add up with Rangers as it leaves them 100 goals short. Just a small point! lol

I appreciate the SPL all-time appearance record is stated as being held by Barry Smith on the official SPL site but is strikes me that this is somewhat out of date, given Barry Smith left the SPL a couple of seasons ago and there are still players playing who have featured in every SPL season. Steven Pressley, for example, has 272 SPL appearances and Russell Anderson has 266. I'm sure there are several others with more than 242, anybody have any suggestions? Caledonian Place 09:14, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I have changed this to Steven Pressley, who has 277 SPL apperances now. I had accidently added some pre-SPL lge appearances to Russell Anderson, he only has 230 in the SPL-era (did he miss a season thorugh injury?)


 * I did a quick check of current squads for veterans of every SPL season, and only came up with (correct to 22/2/07, if soccerbase is up to date): Barry Nicholson (240), Scott Severin (230), Darren Young (208), Stefan Klos (208), Scott Wilson (192), Roddy McKenzie (153). Other potentials, who haven't played every season, such as Neil Lennon, Barry Ferguson, Jim Hamilton,Stevie Crawford, Martyn Corrigan are all in the low 200s. Again, if anyone else knows differently, please change.


 * Given that Pressley is a current player and his total is liable to change every week, I added the proviso Correct to the end of the 2005-06 season, at which point he had made 257 SPL appearances.Caledonian Place 00:56, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

LOCK THIS PAGE FOR GOD'S SAKE
Look at the vandalism committed by bored Old Firm fans! I presume the people (or person) involved are Celtic fans. Lock the page ASAP because it's very childish. I wish Old Firm fans would just grow up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Psyklax (talk • contribs) 13:26, 14 February 2007 (UTC).
 * Sorry, I forgot to sign my comment. I've searched the section on vandalism to see how to lock a page from unregistered users (the ones doing the vandalism) but it doesn't say how. Anybody know? It'll save a lot of bother. Psyklax 13:31, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I have put a request for semi-protection here. Bubba hotep 13:45, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

+
Чемпионат Шотландии по футболу --JukoFF 15:47, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

PES6 Option File (Little OT)
I see that on PES6 there are only 2 SPL teams, and are therefore using all the blank teams to turn my game into a game which has all the SPL teams and SF1 teams except Airdrie United and Ross County as i can't fit two on and they are the lowest ranked in SF1. So i was just wondering, if i was to create all the Other Leagues C into SPL & SF1 teams how many would download it. I have made the base for this and am creating the kits and players now. I will get most of the stats for players off of FIFA but will create the others based on other skills, etc. Celticfan383 14:17, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Worth Remarking on Lopsided League
Is it notable that one of two teams always wins the league? The article doesn't refer to this, but it strikes me as an unusual characteristic of a sports league.

Really? It happens in England too, either Chelsea or Man U or Arsenal... and Spain, and Holland and France and Italy and Germany...--81.129.79.158 16:46, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Not to mention Portugal, Belgium, Ukraine, Croatia... plus whats the point in highlighting something that the reader can then scroll down to discover for themselves? --82.9.29.178 11:27, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Entry Criteria
Possibly should mention that certain clubs such as Dunfermline and St.Johnstone, who suffered serious financial trouble in order to have their stadiums reach the criteria (their fans) are offended by the lowering of the criteria.

Prize Money
Can we get some info on the prize money for finishing 1st, 2nd etc?

per head of population, more people in Scotland watch their domestic top level league
Per head of population, more people in Scotland watch their domestic top level league than any other nation in Europe.[1]

WRONG !

its Iceland

Seriously though, is what Clydesdale Bank's Steve Reid said in 2006 a reliable source as per WP:V? 91.107.105.240 (talk) 23:58, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Under-21 ruling
Can someone add a bit of information about the exact under-21 ruling compared to other leagues?

Fair use rationale for Image:Scottish Premier League logo.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:43, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Standings
This can (and often does) result in the team placed 7th having a higher points total than the team placed 6th. It's not immediately obvious as to how this happens from the article, though it is explained on one of the season pages. Why are the pools divided into top and bottom instead of equal(ish) strength (1,4,5,8,9,12 & 2,3,6,7,10,11) for the last section and the table contunued to be ranked on points as normal?

The theory behind it was that the top half would play against each other to decide Championship and European places, while the bottom half would decide relegation.

Relegation battles generally only involve 2 or 3 teams, so the other bottom 6 teams are left with meaningless games. Although it regularly happens that 7th has more points than 6th, this can be partially explained by the 7th placed team having easier fixtures to finish with. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rossi 1983 (talk • contribs) 14:18, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Map
Can someone fix the map showing locations of each team? I know Pittodrie and Tannadice will be waterlogged, but they dont play in the North Sea. Thanks ← κεηηε∂γ  ( talk ) 09:22, 22 May 2008 (UTC) Strike that, seems it was a problem on my end. ← κεηηε∂γ ( talk ) 20:35, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The problem with the map is that it doesn't work properly at certain screen resolutions. Perhaps someone has the skills/software to reproduce the map manually and insert it as an image? Franky843 (talk) 14:40, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Why are Hearts not on the map at all? Also Hibs appear to be based in Fife when I view the map on my computer, however that may be a resolution problem as described above I suppose.92.236.245.163 (talk) 07:20, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I have now added Hearts to the map having worked out how it works. They appear where Edinburgh should be as it appears on my computer so hopefully it looks right for others.92.236.245.163 (talk) 07:44, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Top Scorers
Shouldn't there only be the top ten top scorers instead of 13? Or is it just a random number? If yes I could exand it to 20. Gregor cox (talk) 12:40, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It appears that 13 is the number of players who have scored over 50 goals, but 50 is an arbitrary figure. I think it would be better if it were simply the top 20 scorers of all time. Cheers Fishiehelper2 (talk) 20:21, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The problem, as demonstrated in the table right now, is that there's a pretty long tail to the top scorers once you get outside the top four. Over half of the current top 10 are still active, and the bottom end of the table is likely to change weekly for the rest of the season. It's pretty much always going to be an arbitrary cutoff. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 15:04, 17 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I think personally we should go with a top 20 at the end of every season, for the sake of tidiness. That would take it down to 43 goals. It seems to me too that there is some disparity in the scorer levels. Riorden is shown as 68, I have him at 71 and Novo too. Does anybody have a source for up to date table of this rather than adding players totals on Soccerbase or similar? Flyingscot (talk) 21:53, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I dont know if this has already been mentioned but henrik larsson scored 158 goals in the 'SPL' not 174 his first season does not count as that was still the 'first division'. So that needs amending thank you Monkeymanman (talk) 18:31, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

"Fans" section
So there's a single-purpose account dedicated to ensuring that the various Famine Song / McCarthy controversies are mentioned wherever Scottish football is. This isn't something unique to Scottish football and in general is a pretty transparently manufactured outrage, so I reckon the section should be removed. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 15:48, 17 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Agreed. I can see the interest but it would be better as an article of it's own which details the various controversies rather than adding similar text to multiple articles. srushe (talk) 15:49, 17 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Disagree. Given inappropriate songs by fans during SPL were covered on television (BBC and STV) and newspapers this is a prominant issue. I think coverage of this issue may lead to a reduction in the problem. I don't think this issue should be swept under the carpet.  Liam.shaw.glasgow (talk  22:43, 17 February 2009 (UTC)


 * If you re-read my comment you'll see that I suggested a separate article for this rather than having this information spread through multiple different articles. It's an issue related to Scottish football, not just the Premier League, so it's not appropriate for this article. We should also be careful not to use wikipedia as a soapbox. srushe (talk) 22:55, 17 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Including information about fans in a entry about the SPL is common sense. Fans attend SPL games and the SPL has responsibility for their behaviour. I'm completely amazed you wouldn't want to include a discussion about fans at SPL games. Should Scotland not be mentioned in an article about the United Kiingdom since Scotland has it's own wiki entry elsewhere?  (talk  contribs) 16:16, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * is this appropriate for this article or is it more suited in articles with this in the topic 'The Herald journalist Doug Gillon suggested "the sectarian intolerance which divides Scottish society [...] is rooted in anti-Irish racism." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.217.174.160 (talk) 01:06, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I dont think this section is needed never mind that sentence. I propose to delete it(Monkeymanman (talk) 15:49, 5 November 2009 (UTC))


 * I removed the section due to it being Contentious and disrespectful to SPL ‘fans’. Why should this focus on fan misbehaviour on the SPL home article.  There are other places on Wikipedia devoted to the inclusions made.(Monkeymanman (talk) 18:07, 11 November 2009 (UTC))


 * If this section is to be left in then the statements of pov from newspaper journalists should be removed(Monkeymanman (talk) 14:35, 12 November 2009 (UTC))

"European Qualification" section
I've updated this section to reflect the fact that the Scottish Cup runner up is no longer able to claim a Europa League place even if the winner has already qualified via the league.

The above is factually incorrect. Gordon Smith (SFA Chief Exec) claimed this, but he was wrong. Check out UEFA.com for details. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.193.240.194 (talk) 02:25, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Kris Boyd
did Kris Boyd not score 39 in a season between Rangers and kilmarnock in 2005-6 when it states Larsson is the top scorer in one season season with 35? 86.11.162.214 (talk) 17:46, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * He only scored 32. Larsson scored 35 in 2000–01. See this table, or the Kris Boyd article. – LATICS   talk  23:20, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Greatest Number of Hat-Tricks: Steven McLaren
Can anyone tell me who this person is? Admittedly I am a casual watcher of the SPL, but have never heard of him, despite the 'fact' that he scored 12 hat tricks (so, at least 36 goals?) between 1998-2004 (and, who for?). Does anyone have a link to anything that proves he scored these goals? The reference given (69) is no longer valid, and the stats page of the SPL official website (http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s72) does not contain this stat-in fact, it says it should be Henrik Larsson. Macgruer (talk) 16:12, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

This 'fact' is not true, I think it should be Larsson with 12 hattricks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.19.111.39 (talk) 03:56, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

All time top goal scorer
Hey I fixed the amount of goals Henrik Larsson scored back to 158 somebody(celtic fans) changed it to 174. When Boyd beats his record this season what picture of Boyd should go up instead? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.2.64.8 (talk) 23:14, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

SPL Stadium pictures
Should there be only one picture from one stadium in that section or none at all. In a NPOV stance there would be a picture of each stadium mentioned would there not?(Monkeymanman (talk) 12:01, 14 January 2010 (UTC))
 * Images are not mentioned in WP:NPOV. It is illustrative and factual - further up, there is a picture of Rangers playing in a European match - is that also showing a POV? Don't be absurd. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 12:34, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I dont think i mentioned rangers in my question but nevermind, i was trying to get at the point that there are good pictures for all stadiums in the spl on their own articles and they could each be included perhaps.(Monkeymanman (talk) 16:28, 14 January 2010 (UTC))
 * 12 pictures for one short section would be overkill (see NOTREPOSITORY). Jmorrison230582 (talk) 17:18, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * suppose so(Monkeymanman (talk) 17:41, 14 January 2010 (UTC))

Club managers and captains
should club captains be included in this section or should it revert back to only the managers? My fear is that the table will continue to expand until just about every position within each club is accounted for. Or there could be an agreement to leave it with managers and captains to prevent this. Monkeymanman (talk) 22:47, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Cup Winners for the Champions League?


Cup Winners for the Champions League? This section is obviously wrong. Please correct it who have knowledge of Scottish Football.南九州国際 (talk) 13:45, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Largest victory
spl is wrong!!! about highest win. it is not 9 0 Celtic against Aberdeen it is 10 0 rangers vs hibs ran 10 hibs 0 no joke — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.0.21.180 (talk) 20:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You are incorrect. The Scottish Premier League was only created in 1998, succeeding the Scottish Football League Premier Division. There was a Rangers 10–0 Hibs result in the 1890s, but this was in a Scottish Football League competition. The Celtic 9–0 Aberdeen result is the largest margin of victory in an SPL match, ie a Scottish top division match since 1998. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 20:34, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Statistics
I'm thinking of changing the look of the "Championships" table under the "Statistics" section to something like this:

Does anyone have an opinion on it? Is it too much? Cal Umbra (talk) 15:05, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Rangers
This article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9335076/Rangers-to-be-excluded-from-SPL-fixture-list.html

states that Rangers are not included in the SPL list for next year, so I have updated the article to reflect this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dingowasher (talk • contribs) 09:03, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * You're getting ahead of yourself. Yes, edit the section to show that there is doubt over whether "Rangers" (whatever that will mean) will compete next season, but it isn't confirmed either way. If they're not in the list of current clubs, they would have to be in the list of former clubs. Until there is a definitive event to say that Rangers will not be in the SPL next season (say by them being replaced by another club), the safer course is to leave them, but to make an explanatory note. James Morrison (talk) 09:50, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Rangers F.C have won most titles
But Rangers have won 54 titles so I am editing it so its valid. You want proof heres proof http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2012/06/13/rangers-in-crisis-history-of-the-club-will-live-on-after-liquidation-insist-ibrox-club-s-fans-86908-23895122/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.235.221.87 (talk) 01:45, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I reverted the good faith edits. First, citations belong in the article, not here on the talk page. See WP:CITE. Second, this article is just about the Scottish Premier League which was only formed in 1998. Rangers may have won 54 titles overall, but not from this league specifically. Other leagues, even this league's forerunners don't count in this matter. Thank you. -- JoannaSerah (talk) 04:33, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Ok I get it now. I thought it was the same league but its not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.235.221.87 (talk) 05:48, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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Nomination for deletion of Template:SPL map
Template:SPL map has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:54, 10 January 2022 (UTC)