Talk:Scottish cringe

Comments
This seems to have started out purely as an ethnic insult about six months ago, and has failed to become anything else despite several attempts at improvement. AfD? Andrewa 00:58, 15 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Before considering AfD, check out Google for context. It's generally used by Scottish commentators talking about their own culture: see, , , ,, and so on. Tearlach 01:48, 15 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I did check Google of course, but perhaps not well enough.


 * I certainly am not saying that nobody uses the term! But to be encyclopedic it isn't enough for a term to be used; That just gets it into a lexicon, not into an encyclopedia. To get into an encyclopedia, the term needs to describe something about which we have some information.


 * The external link now added to the article (your first reference above) now gives the article some substance, as it's a citable authority. Thank you! I've added the actual citation. I'm inclined to think it can now grow, so AfD is off my agenda. Good stuff. Room for more improvement IMO. Andrewa 09:50, 15 September 2005 (UTC)


 * In view of the fact that it now looks like this article could grow, I've added a stub notice (there didn't seem much point before). Thanks again for your input. Andrewa 21:15, 15 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I was thinking that this does not exist in scotland, as i live here, and haven't heard it mentioned. I live in Glasgow, work in Edinburgh and drink in both and haven't heard it spoken. I think it is only used in context by politicians, coined by Jack McConnoll. 20:20 20th September 2005 (GMT) User:scope_creep


 * In agreement with the above, I am from, and live in Scotland and never heard the phrase until politicians and (bad) journalists started using it. Although the journalists prefer "Caledonian cringe" in an attempt to be poetic.


 * As a Scot born and bred I am quite familiar with the term. --Carmock (talk) 10:29, 5 February 2008 (UTC)


 * People use it on usenet and so do bloggers, Scholars, authors and journalists Ablins there's something in among all that, that can help expound what the beastie actually is.
 * 84.135.228.97 (talk) 21:29, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

It is often used, although not by most people, it is heard in the Scottish media - it is political, my interpretation, how it seems to me, personally, as the sort of Scot I am, is that it is used by people (sometimes nationalists, but probably not necessarily always) who are promoting some manifestation of Scottish patriotism that some may feel is cheesy, and it's basically an accusation that the person, or the people, find the thing cheesy because they are insufficiently patriotic in the accuser's eyes, i.e. that they find the thing embarassing because it promotes Scotland in a positive light rather than because the thing itself is cheesy. I dare say that the accusation is correct some of the time, I dare say that the thing is actually cheesy some of the time, and I dare say that sometimes both is the case, i.e. the thing is cheesy but that's not really the main thing the cringer is cringing about. We probably all have our own ideas about how often which is the case! For myself, I've done my fair share of cringing, I am proud of some Scottish things, but not the sort of things that people who use the phrase are ever promoting - for instance I'm proud of Josef K and Armando Iannucci, not proud of Golf and Sean Connery! Scatterkeir (talk) 08:39, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

A little late to the debate, but I'd like to add that I can't help but feel this article is actually quite off the mark in describing what the 'Scottish cringe' actually is. Even reading some of the sources that are provided would show that the article is wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.1.180.219 (talk) 20:37, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Offensive and Insulting
I am a Scot and have never heard of this phrase.It is deeply offensive and insulting ,and in my oppinion,should be deleted.

Webpendragon 09:42, 22 September 2007 (UTC)webpendragon 22 September 2007


 * The fact that someone, somewhere finds something offensive or insulting is not grounds to remove it. --Breadandcheese (talk) 11:48, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Ferguson quote
The section on the quote by Ferguson is at the least incomplete. I read his article as an advocacy of a Scottish cringe which does not yet, but should, exist. Mutt Lunker (talk) 12:00, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid I read it rather differently: not that there should be a Scottish cultural cringe, but rather that Scotland should not exist as a cultural entity. --Breadandcheese (talk) 11:48, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Agree with you and also what I meant but, on reflection, not really how I've expressed it. We're agreed the partial quote gave a false impression though? Will work on phrasing. Also agree re irrelevance of "offensive and insulting". Mutt Lunker (talk) 12:47, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

In light of this discussion, I've concluded that Ferguson's article is only relevant as an instance of using the words "Scottish cringe," not as a commentary on it, much less "opposition" to it, whatever that means. I have deleted the underweight "Opposition" section. — ℜ ob C. alias ALAROB 20:54, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Last bullet point
The third bullet point: does not seem to me a manifestation of the Scottish cringe at all. My understanding of the cringe is that it is essentially a sense of inferiority or embarrassment at all things Scottish felt by some Scots themselves. Someone manifesting the Scottish cringe would therefore be unlikely to feel hard done by any marginalisation of coverage of Scottish affairs by the BBC. They would be more likely not to acknowledge any marginalisation or to see it as natural and proper. --Carmock (talk) 10:29, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * even though part of the ruling nation within the British Empire, a tendency of many Scots to perceive themselves as victims of English colonialism and cultural imperialism within British institutions, such as the perceived marginalisation of coverage of Scottish affairs by the BBC.


 * Fair point. Mutt Lunker (talk) 18:05, 5 February 2008 (UTC)