Talk:Scouting and Guiding in Ukraine

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Is Spilka Ukraïns'koï Molodi (СУМ) really Scouting?
After checking their websites, I think CYM is not a Scouting organization. Should we move this content to an article of its own? --jergen 13:56, 17 May 2006 (UTC)


 * There is some debate, some say it is, others say it is not. When I did my senior thesis in college in 1992, I counted SUM as a Scout organization. I say break it off, like Plast, and label it with the Scouting portal, see how it grows. It may even have its own article already. Chris 00:46, 18 May 2006 (UTC)


 * СУМ is a scouting organization similar to Plast. This article also needs internal links to СУМ and Plast added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.251.66.254 (talk • contribs) --jergen 08:48, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Any sources or only your opinion? The CYM-homepage doesn't mention any elements of the Scout method. I think this is an "ordinary" yoth organization and doesn't belong to the Scout movement.
 * An internal link to Plast exists, CYM doesn't have an article of its own, so why link it? --jergen 08:48, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * A second idea is to place it as a subsection of Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, what do you think? Chris 00:59, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

As a member of the organisation since my youth (10 years) i can confirm that the organisation is a scouting one - particularly in Ukraine and Canada. Nevertherless, it is fair to say that the organisation is affiliated to OUN. I think there should be an article for the organisation on its own (as it does on the Ukrainian version of Wikipedia) or it should have an extended section the OUN page. However, the OUN page seems to be frought with argument and political point-scoring. Ideas as to how to rectify this? Ukirednffc (talk) 12:41, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * If you can translate it, I will support and watch it. --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 04:00, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Created. --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 09:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

which organization?
Can anyone identify the coat of arms inside this Scout logo? It is Ukrainian but clearly Russian-speaking. Chris 05:27, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ukraine YMCA scouts.jpg
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BetacommandBot 19:10, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Plastova Sich
The reference in the article "a national camp in their training and camping centre Plastova Sich in Canada.[12] Oleksander Tysovsky took part in this camp." - simply put this means they called their camp "the Plast fortress"

The only mention I can find on SIch is the mention in the letter introducing the PLast merge in 1996, where it says "Many groups, such as scouts of Dnipropetrowsk (Skif), Perekop       (in Crimea), "Chysta Krynytsia", "Sich", etc have now formally or informally joined the Plast organization."

Chysta Krynytsia means Crystal well, Perekop is an area of the Crimea, Dnipropetrowsk is an area of Ukraine, and it seems to me that these titles are only for the individual groups of scouts of the PLast, like naming them "the Tiger troop" or "the Founding Fathers troop" or "the Minutemen troop".

thanks--Chaosdruid (talk) 05:20, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * PS - Here are some more links !   --Chaosdruid (talk)

Plast has its own article and WPMOS has Kiev
The Ukrainian Plast organization recently held a seminar on international Scouting, including work within WAGGGS (!) and WOSM. The website promotes participation in upcoming international Scouting events - all events are WAGGGS/WOSM-only. If you look closely, you will find some people with the World Scout Emblem on some of the pictures.

The 2014 membership data for Ukraine is strange since it shows 1,195 members in WOSM plus 3,345 other members - there is no other NSO with more non-Scouting members than Scouts.

By all appearances, Plast is still cooperating with NOSU.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 12:10, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Membership in NOSU is individual, any scout of Ukraine can be member of NOSU and his organization. And there is problem of that list - NOSU was initiated by those 3 organization (SICH, PLAST and SPOK) but these orgranizations aren't members of NOSU (as organizations). That's why some scouts (plastuns) have WOSM emblem and some have not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tokach (talk • contribs) 17:11, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

User:Tokach's membership inflation and reordering of list
I replaced the source only, which does _not_ support User:Tokach's membership inflation nor reordering of the list--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 13:00, 16 January 2018 (UTC)


 * User:Kintetsubuffalo, I suggest to order those list it in proper way. For example, in alphabetic. Also, we need to order it according to organizations structure. For example, Plast is not subdivision of Luhanska OOS, also SPOK is not and SICH is not member or part of LOOP.

Also, I'm interested in representing in gallery emblem of Plast. User:Kintetsubuffalo — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tokach (talk • contribs) 13:27, 16 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks to the User:Jergen it is arranged by the A-Z. But it is still not correct, because PLAST was one of Foundators of NOSU. But it is not member of NOSU. Membership in NOSU is individual, only part of PLAST members belongs to NOSU.

So it is incorrect that SICH, SPOK and PLAST is marked under NOSU list item. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tokach (talk • contribs) 08:34, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia must be sourced, if you have a source that shows that Plast is not now a member of NOSU, or that membership in NOSU is individual, (a strange arrangement not followed in any other country), please produce that source. Also, the emblem of Plast is at the Plast article. Wikipedia discourages overuse of non-free images.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 06:00, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * You can read about this at NOSU page. It once again shows that you are not expert in thіs (current ukrainian scouting situation) field. I can't copy other articles so you will be satisfied. Also I don't know how to source obvious facts that I can observe here and you can not. For example, you can simply compare total members number in each organizations and decide are they all connected in one NOSU or not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tokach (talk • contribs) 15:14, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Also about emblem — I changed it to other file that is on wiki for a longer time, ok...Tokach (talk) 15:24, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Please keep your comments WP:CIVIL. There's no sense in you barking at me-my English is better than yours, and unlike you, I know how to sign my comments, but I don't snap at you about it. Wikipedia's rules are here for a reason.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 03:52, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Barking? Be polite if you mention wp civil... The point is that you don't need to know english perfect in this theme, you need to be in process to know what is it about. I wish sometimes you will know ukrainian as i know english or even better if you are so interest in eastern european scouting, so you can read local news not in russian. And maybe in this case you will find no evidence of existing rusyn scouts for example... Others can make proofreading after facts are placed. wp civil also means that you not irritate other users with cancelling instead of constructive dialogue first. And what did you do?  As you can see, at last we have my first change in general. You are too seriuos to rules not to facts. We can always wikificate article later or sooner but as for me facts matter more than proper formatting, sourcing and signing. It can be added later. Also, after bot signs my answers few times I learned how to sign by myself and did it at my last comment, i don't see problem with this. But wait there is mister Rule and he see the problem )) Tokach (talk) 09:16, 21 January 2018 (UTC)