Talk:Scouting for All

Rating
With a good intro paragraph, this would be B-class.Rlevse 15:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

3/4 of this is biographies. I don't get any sense of what this group is doing now. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 01:30, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Not much. Their website has been "down for repair" for over a month.GCW50 15:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * So I see- it was supposed to "be live" on the 15th, now it shows the 16th. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:49, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Requested Move
The actual title of the organization is "Scouting for All" with a lower-case F.

Not a Bio gallery
Much of the biographic information relating to the founders is not related to this article. If any of them are notable, they should have their own article. Information on the founders should be restricted to that which is relevant to the founding of the organization. --NThurston 17:35, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

The bio's (especially the last one)could use a POV/NPOV check IsaactheNPOVfanatic 16:03, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Web site
The web site is back up. All of the bio links here are now 404. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 12:33, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Going to start some work in my sandbox...
I'm going to start expanding this a bit in my sandbox, but anyone wishing to is more than welcome to help out. There's plenty of material out there just from a quick google search. I'll probably move it to the main article here once I can get an "activities" section made that is actually readable and whatnot. Unforgiven24 Talk|Contribs 17:32, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Profiled on TV
SfA and Steven Cozza are interviewed in Penn & Teller: Bullshit! episode 4.01. --TMC1221 (talk) 04:14, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Discussion
The Boy Scouts are a Christian organization. If someone has a problem with their prerequisites they should just start their own scouting group. --Renegadeoftheghetto (talk) 20:47, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * As a clear matter of fact, Scouting is NOT a Christian organization. It exists in countries that are predomiantly Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu and so on. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  14:09, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * If you mean not exclusively Christian, you are right. But that isn't what Renegade was saying. --Uncle Ed (talk) 15:57, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I suspect he is referring to the BSA, which is not a religious organization, but does require the members have some sort of faith, but does not mandate any particular faith. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 14:42, 28 September 2009 (UTC)


 * There is a global umbrella body for Scouting called World Organization of the Scout Movement (WOSM). It accepts membership from only one Scouting body for each country. For the USA that member is Boy Scouts of America. "If someone has a problem with their prerequisites", it's not that easy for them to "just start their own scouting group" and be recognised at a global level.


 * Many of the other members of WOSM have no policies forbidding gay and atheists, and have admitted girls at all levels. HiLo48 (talk) 23:18, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

The World Organization of the Scout Movement requires that all member organizations adhere to a duty to God:

All members of the Scout Movement are required to adhere to a Scout Promise and Law reflecting, in language appropriate to the culture and civilization of each National Scout Organization, and approved by the World Organization, the principles of Duty to God...



---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 03:30, 13 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Scouts in Australia make a promise to "do my duty to my god". That is open to the interpretation that if one does not have a god, there is no duty to be done. Buddhists are not required to believe in a god, but are welcome in Scouting. HiLo48 (talk) 03:39, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I have heard it argued that the Buddhists in the US who are Scouts come from Japanese Buddhist traditions who do believe in God. From those discussions it was clear that the BSA has really not addressed the issue of Buddhist groups who really do not believe in a God. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  04:55, 13 January 2010 (UTC)


 * The Buddhist Churches of America practice Jōdo Shinshū— the article mentions god only in conjunction with Shinto. The BCA operates 55 BSA units, and endorses the BSA. The Buddhist religious emblems programs offered through PRAY are from the BCA with different programs for the BSA, GSUSA and Camp Fire. Skimming through Buddhism in the United States, I don't see any other formal national groups. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 13:53, 13 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Exactly. Thanks for the information. It means that BSA Buddhists are rather different from the Buddhist Scouts that one meets internationally, such as the ones from Thailand. The harder Buddhist line that belief in a God in not required, is not evident. The Buddha himself said something along the lines of belief in God was a crutch for those who need it, but it was better without it. From B-P on to the WOSM, the religious policy has been a fudge, developed by people who do not really understand what the various religions of the world are all about, thinking for example that Buddha is a god. It is no wonder we have difficult writing about it on wikipedia. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  20:53, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Coalition for Inclusive Scouting
See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting


 * Two separate organizations. I don't see any evidence that SfA is a successor to CIS. The only evidence that the CIS ever had any impact was in the Inclusive Scouting Award which is the bulk of the article. The award was then offered by ScoutPride which seems defunct and is now offered by SfA as the Scouting for All Rainbow Knot. SfA has not updated their web since since November 2008, so I'm not even sure of their status. My recommendation:
 * Merge the award to SfA
 * Merge any pertinent bits of CIS to Scouting in the United States
 * Redirect to Scouting in the United States
 * ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 13:21, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

This is correct -- SfA and CIS were separate organizations with different approaches to the issue. SfA tended to focus more on protests, and CIS more on helping people still active in the Boy Scouts of America to help change the policies. There were a few unsuccessful efforts to merger around 2002 and 2003.

CIS now exists as the Inclusive Scouting Network. See http://www.inclusivescouting.net and http://www.facebook.com/inclusive.scouting

The Inclusive Scouting Award was originally modeled after "safe space" programs used in high schools to help students identify supportive teachers whom they could approach without fear. See http://www.inclusivescouting.net/isa/ The two rope colors were based on religious colors and sexual orientation colors -- there is not a red, white, and blue component specifically referring to the Eagle Scout colors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mmnoel (talk • contribs) 21:04, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Coalition_for_Inclusive_Scouting

Main discussion is now here. North8000 (talk) 14:46, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
 * That seems rational, let's do that. I like that solution to this Gordian knot.--Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 13:23, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Since there seem to be no objections from active watchers, can someone more expert than I describe the nuts and bolts of the sequence on how to do this. Is it?:


 * Write award info into SFA (or confirm that it's in). Write any pertinent bits of CIS to Scouting in the United States, or make sure that they're in there.
 * PROD CIS
 * AFD CIS, if decision is a "yes" closing admin will delete and redirect

North8000 (talk) 13:41, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The proposal is not to delete the article, but to redirect it to Scouting in the United States, which already mentions it. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 18:06, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm learning. I was (mistakenly) thinking that a re-directed article was a deleted article. North8000 (talk) 20:48, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

OK then, let's roll per Gadget's plan. North8000 (talk) 11:00, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Done -— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 10:42, 2 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Cool. I think that it strengthened the two destination articles and rescued the bits of good content from the CIS article. North8000 (talk) 11:39, 2 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I also did a redirect for ScoutPride. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 12:57, 2 August 2010 (UTC)