Talk:Scuttling of the French fleet at Toulon

Laborde
Who is Laborde, mentioned without introduction in "Political aspect"?

It needs restructuring, yes, as both he and Marquis are 'officially' introduced in the paragraph below. 86.160.63.63 (talk) 03:24, 21 September 2009 (UTC) Alister

Pre-Dreadnought
Which were the "two pre-dreadnought battleships of no value"? Drutt (talk) 10:51, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

One was Condorcet, which had been demoted to a depot ship in the early 1930s. 86.160.63.63 (talk) 03:29, 21 September 2009 (UTC) Alister


 * The other one was the former Jean Bart, renamed Océan after demilitarisation and becoming a school hulk in 1936.90.9.154.189 (talk) 00:01, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

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Jean de Vienne
"The cruiser Jean de Vienne, in drydock, was boarded by German troops, who disarmed the demolition charges, but the open sea valves flooded the ship. She sank, blocking the drydock." - how can a ship inside a dry dock (ie without water around) be sunk? 80.151.9.187 (talk)

La Galissonniere,Lion and Jean de Vienne were all in a drydock and you can see in La Galissonniere page the ship is sunk alongside Dunkerque as they shared drydock, Dunkerque page also have a image showing their location. Simply put how do ships get inside a drydock? a drydock is not always dry.

Copyeditor notes (refimprove)
I am here trying to straighten out the narrative on Military history of France in World War II, where I had thought that some of these sunken ships might have been conflated. I am still getting that straight in my own mind but have made some minor wording changes to sentences whose English was not really wrong but slightly strange to a native speaker. I do not feel that any of these were substantive enough to introduce an error of fact but if so I would appreciate being notified, since bad translations of French military history of the period continue to appear in my life, so if I am mistaken about something I would like to stop perpetuating that mistake. I feel that some of the IP addresses on the talk page sound quite knowledgeable on this topic, but that this narrative does not quite meet en wikipedia’s strict referencing standards. Somewhat shocking assertions, such as an admiral acting in good faith while being undercut by his own government, should be referenced. References and attribution should also be given for formulations such as “some have written...but others believe...” and definitely for any quoted text, as obviously accurate as it may seem to the writer. That said, I find the article informative and interesting in that it appears to represent modern a German narrative.

I do have a couple of style quibbles:


 * I am an agnostic as to whether Pétain’s title should be Maréchal or translated as Marshal. The latter has a somewhat Wild West overtone to a North American ear, but is widely used on the en wikipedia. It is also in fact, as far as I know, the closest English word. But if the former is used, it should be spelled correctly, i.e. that accent is important and, without it, the word is simply spelled wrong. And in any given article it should be one or the other but not both. I have not addressed this but somebody who does care should standardize


 * Similarly, on first reference full names and titles and wiki links should be given, but after that, for the sake of readability, the last name only, unless there are two subjects with the same last name or other special use cases. I will probably take care of the current instances of this issue on my second pass.

Thank you for your attention to these matters Elinruby (talk) 05:39, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

39 small ships
The article is potentially midleading on the nature of those ships They weren’t warship for sure and most of them were certainly motor launch.

I recommand to replace ship by boat 2A01:CB00:BF8:9800:7C87:F96B:2919:5490 (talk) 05:59, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Scuttling of the French fleet at Toulon
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Scuttling of the French fleet at Toulon's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ubootefr": From French submarine Thétis: u-boote.fr THÉTIS (in French) Accessed 9 April 2023 From French submarine Fresnel (Q143): u-boote.fr FRESNEL (in French) Accessed 16 August 2022 From French submarine Henri Poincaré (Q140): u-boote.fr HENRI POINCARÉ (in French) Accessed 3 September 2022 From French submarine Eurydice (Q130): u-boote.fr EURYDICE (in French) Accessed 15 October 2022 From French submarine Le Glorieux: u-boote.fr Le Glorieux (in French) Accessed 23 August 2022 From French submarine Aurore (Q192): AURORE (in French) Accessed 9 October 2022 From French submarine Pascal (Q138): u-boote.fr PASCAL (in French) Accessed 4 September 2022</li> <li>From French submarine Sirène (Q123): u-boote.fr SIRÈNE (in French) Accessed 19 March 2023</li> <li>From French destroyer L'Indomptable: u-boote.fr PASTEUR (in French) Accessed 4 September 2022</li> <li>From French submarine L'Espoir: u-boote.fr PHÉNIX (in French) Accessed 3 August 2022</li> <li>From French submarine Vengeur (Q137): u-boote.fr VENGEUR (in French) Accessed 21 August 2022</li> <li>From French submarine Galatée (Q132): GALATÉE (in French) Accessed 26 March 2023</li> <li>From French submarine Naïade (Q124): u-boote.fr SIRÈNE (in French) Accessed 20 March 2023</li> <li>From French submarine Danaé: u-boote.fr DANAÉ (in French) Accessed 15 October 2022</li> <li>From French submarine Achéron: u-boote.fr ACHÉRON (in French) Accessed 5 August 2022</li> <li>From French submarine Ariane (Q122): u-boote.fr ARIANE (in French) Accessed 15 October 2022</li> </ul>

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. Feel free to remove this comment after fixing the refs. AnomieBOT ⚡ 16:07, 27 April 2023 (UTC)