Talk:Sea Power/Archive 2

Secrets
That the band like to keep their names and that of their manager secret is of no import here; this is an encyclopaedia, not a PR site. That they are embarrassed by an early photo is also of no concern, for the same reason. Andy Mabbett 21:40, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * It's not an early photo, its quite recent. --SaltyWater 23:51, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

James Sui
Note that Ray Wilkinson's name and the disputed image  both appear on James Sui's BSP fansite. User:82.17.179.224 appears, or at least has claimed, to be James Sui. Andy Mabbett 22:12, 25 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Ooh, I'm famous. Cool. --SaltyWater 22:47, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

SaltyWater
The information that you keep deleting appears to be both accurate, pertinent, and interesting. Your stated reasons for your deletions appear to have little to do with aiming for a better encyclopedia entry. At best, it seems misguided -- at worst, vandalism. Larry Mudd 03:28, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * RE Manager - I just don't believe the manager info is relvant here. This is an article about the band and their music, not who books their tours etc. / RE Birds - I know for a fact that it is not true, just a common misconception by the press which everyone believes. I was told that this is a place for factual information so I was trying to remove infactual information. No one has actually privided any strong evidence to support their claims that the "band are all keen birdwatchers", just links to where the press or their manager claim they are. "This is an encyopedia, not a PR site" is what I was told by another user (I can't seem to locate the exact quote or who said it though) --SaltyWater 14:15, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Use of names
I think it might be a good idea to refer to them using their so-called "stage names" throughout the actual article, and just leave their "real names" in the list at the top. This is what they are most commonly known as and it occurs in other articles, such as Morrissey. Can I get feedback on this please? --SaltyWater 11:42, 28 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Aye, seems sensible. I imagine that this is also the way it is done with other single name artists like Prince and Sting. of course BSP are a bit unique in being a band with sinlge names I sholud think. Grinner 12:47, 28 October 2005 (UTC)


 * That sounds good to me as well. the wub  "?!"  12:59, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

More about names
Re current reinstatement of "Scott Wilkinson". This is cited from: Kendal band seeks nominations, The Westmorland Gazette, 18 Sep 2003. Before expunging it again, read the Wikipedia guidelines on verifiability: the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. Their emphasis, not mine. If it's in a respectable regional newspaper, it's a reported fact by Wikipedia standards. It may not be Scott, but as I said before, if that knowledge is from personal experience, it's inadmissable as original research. Tearlach 03:36, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Response to RfC
Just came here and checked this out cuz it was on the RfC list, no real interest in the band although I am aware of them and their music. As far as the band members identities go, I don't think they are that well protected and so their inclusion is acceptable. Because their manager used to write for NME and is a brother to two of the band members, I find it relevant. I am more hesitant to comment on the birdwatching/whimsical interview question, but the way it is written in the article right now sounds good to me. If you are a passionate fan of the band, that is great and you can contribute a lot of great material to this article. However, this is not your fansite, and your opinions about how/why the article should or should not have certain information included/excluded is probably not relevant here. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia of verifiable facts. Hope this perspective helps!Powers of i 21:45, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Management


They are managed by Yan and Hamilton's brother, Roy Wilkinson, former Gene manager and some-time journalist for Select, Sounds, Q and the NME.

to

They used to be managed by Yan and Hamilton's brother, Roy Wilkinson, former Gene manager and some-time journalist].

Cite source. Tearlach 00:23, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * There is talk of it on the official forum and I have also heard "from the horses mouth" per se. You'll be stretched to find anything more substantial unfortunately. --SaltyWater 12:23, 30 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, you know the answer to that: "from the horses mouth" is original research, and the forum is a bunch of anonymous unsubstantiated sources. Tearlach 12:56, 30 November 2005 (UTC)


 * What can I do? It might be a good idea to relax from a rules a little and just use initiative. Change it if you want, but it will be wrong. --SaltyWater 13:31, 30 November 2005 (UTC)


 * How's my alteration? Grinner


 * Fair enough. I'll try and find some harder evidence but don't hold your breath. --SaltyWater 13:55, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Cool. Personally I was happy with what you wrote, but I'm trying to be very "proper" over this page, given the trouble it's had.... Grinner 14:07, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. Personally, I think the forum discussion is believable - but given the previous contention in this topic it's better to hold out for something up to Wikipedia verifiability standards. If true, it'll be in the papers soon enough. Tearlach 16:11, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing we'll be lucky to find anything that confirms it, given the nature of the band. But we'll see. --SaltyWater 16:40, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Can anyone tell me why the management info is here, I mean who wants to know who books their tours? It's not like hes famous or anything. SaltyWater 12:31, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * How about the fact that he's written all of their press releases, created the obscure image himself and is quite well known in his own right (well he has connections y'know) Me677 13:46, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Just because you fancy him SaltyWater 13:56, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * It's a normal, loving, platonic relationship between two males. Why can't you come to understand that? Me677 15:48, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Articles about the members
I think it would be best for the articles on the members to be called 'Yan (musician)', 'Noble (musician)', 'Hamilton (musician)' and 'Wood (musician)' (as per Morrissey, Prince (artist), etc.). This is what they're best known as and what people would most likely search. This is excepting Eamon, who has enough work outside of BSP to warrant the use of his full name. Unless anyone disagrees with this I'll change them in the next few days. SaltyWater 13:20, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Sounds fine (as long as the subarticles do mention their full names). Tearlach 13:29, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I think it's excessive to have a seperate article for each members of a relatvely new band. With the exception of maybe Eamon, the others don't have enough of a significant encyclopedic value (yet) to warrant a seperate article. I clicked on Yan, for example, and basically got a name and that he's in BSP... making my click feel kind of pointless. Member articles would serve better if they were folded into the BSP article itself for now. Spookfish 19:15, 17 December 2005 (UTC)