Talk:Sea Scouts (Boy Scouts of America)/Archive 1

Confusion
The first sentence of the article says:
 * Sea Scouts is a program within the Boy Scouts of America's Venturing Program. It is a nautical program for young men and women ages 14-20. [emphasis mine]

Since when does the BSA admit girls? Or is this a special coed program within the BSA? --Micahbrwn 07:46, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Uh, where have you been??? The BSA has been admitted girls to the Explorer/Sea Explorer programs since 1971! When the Venturing program replaced the Explorer program in 1998, Venturing, along with Sea Scouts remainded co-ed. Emb021 17:03, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Merger
Someone had suggested that the Sea Scout (Boy Scouts of America) page be merged with the Sea Scout page.
 * Stupid. The Sea Scout page is for the more general world-wide Sea Scout program, which is different for each country.  The Sea Scout (Boy Scouts of America) page is for the unique Sea Scout program that exists in the US.  They should not be merged.  NO MERGER is my vote.  Emb021 17:05, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Against This article is specific to BSA, while Sea Scout is WOSM general. --Gadget850 14:50, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Against merger for the reasons given, but both articles need looking at to ensure that the one does only cover the BSA and the other does give full WOSM cover. I think this debate is over. Nobody on either talk page has agreed they should be merged. I think the merger templates should be removed. --Bduke 22:54, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Given the time frame and comments, I'm am considering this a "don't merge" consensus, and am removing the tags. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:17, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Re Org
As with the Venturing page, have re-org this page to bring it in-line with a proposed outline for all BSA division pages. I haven't made much new material, just moved stuff around. We need new stuff in the area of activities, training, etc. I'll put some basic stuff here hopefully, but others should pitch in. --Emb021 20:25, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Cabin boy
I have a 1942 merit badge pamplet that illustrates a number of emblems on the back cover, including "cabin boy". Any clues what this was? --Gadget850 ( Ed) 23:01, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. From what I gather, this was some kind of special patch that those scouts under 14 could be made kind of 'junior Sea Scouts'.  --emb021 Nov 9, 2006

Local links
This article is on the national program. Local stuff belongs in the "by state" articles. I think we have a policy on this. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:15, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I see the links crept back in. See the link in Law Enforcement Exploring for the proper way to deal with this using the Open Directory Project.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 03:33, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I deleted the whole local links section and added a DMOZ link. Please add any units to the Open Directory- simply click on the link to follow. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:01, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Rename suggestion
What is the reason for the suggested rename? Chris 03:56, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Per the Language of Scouting:
 * Sea Scouting
 * Sea Scouts specialize in traditional nautical activities, i.e., sailing, boating, and maritime careers.

--Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:01, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose - this is an article on the Sea Scout section. Still, maybe a redirect would be in order from ''Sea Scouting (Boy Scouts of America)? Horus Kol Talk 14:04, 2 April 2007 (UTC) no longer oppose the proposal following discussions over naming conventions at Talk:Cub Scouting (Boy Scouts of America) -- Horus Kol Talk 13:53, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * confused this is the BSA article. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:28, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Support Sea Scouts are boys & girls. Sea Scouting is what they do. This article is more about what they do (their program) than the scouts themselves. -NThurston 14:04, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Marlinspike?
What's a Marlinspike? : "A Scout who earns the first rank, Apprentice, shows basic knowledge of the water. S/he must have basic marlinspike seamenship skills and water knowledge." --AW 00:17, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * a marlinspike is a traditional tool used by sailors (the ones on big sailing ships). Usually a metal spike that is used to pry the strands of a rope apart to do rope work.  'marlinspike seamanship skills' is usually the term for these traditional old sailing ship skills- ropes, sails, etc.  --Emb021 19:43, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Merge Skipper (Boy Scouts of America)
Merge Skipper (Boy Scouts of America); all material in the article duplicates what is already here. Other than maintenance, it has really had no edits since January 2006, and it is linked from one article. --— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  02:49, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Support or oppose:

Youth Officer Positions
If the Scouting Program is truly about Youth Led Leadership, then the effort to show that there are truly youth leaders should be made. For 2008-2009 there is a National Boatswain, 3 Regional Boatswains, and so on and so forth. There are Area and Council Officers also. Images and the sections about Petty and Adult officers need to be expanded to show that Fleet, Flotilla, Task Force and Squadrons all have Youth Officers. Stnfll (talk) 01:07, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Award questions
Trying to figure out this crazy Sea Scouting stuff:


 * Skipper's Key: Does it use the Scouter's Key medal with the Sea Scout device per Image:Scouter's Key.png or is it a blue ribbon with silver key per Skippers Key?

No- Skipper's Key recipients receive the destinctive medal that was first designed in the late 30s and was reinstituted about 2000. --User:bjoh 1745, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Quartermaster has a patch per BSA Supply? I have not seen this documented anywhere else.

--Gadget850 ( Ed) 20:02, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The Skipper's Key was brought back in the last 2-3 years. Before they had to use the Scouter's Key for decades.  QM has long had a patch, but for whatever reason, its only listed in the Insignia Guide.  Most traditionalist seem to want to ignore it.  Am not even sure its listed in the Sea Scout Manual.  Go figure.  --Emb021 15:29, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

OK- I had found the QM patch in the guide (left it here at work), but not the key. Guess I need to do some updates. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:01, 6 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Is there a Skipper's Award of Merit,? --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:42, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * No. Skipper's would be eligable for the Advisor's Award of Merit, but that would be a little strange as the AAoM expects the advisor to promote the earning of Venturing Silver.  I guess no one in the Sea Scouting world had thought of creating a set of requirements for a sort-of 'Skipper's Award of Merit'.  --Emb021 27 August 2007  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.182.158.137 (talk) 14:41, August 27, 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes- that is a bit odd. The Boy Scouting Division has the Scoutmaster's Award of Merit and the Coach's Award of Merit, but Venturing only has the Advisor's Award of Merit and none for Skippers.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:50, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
 * BTW- I added Image:Skipper's Key.png. It is not a great scan- would you have a better image?  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:15, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

The Quartermaster award has one knot (Blue on White Background) no. 05009, one circular patch (red background as listed above) no. 04100, two badges of rank (white no.04122 or Blue no.04121 background). All are listed in the Sea Scout Manual and are available from National Supply. The patch (whichever color matches your uniform) of rank is to be worn (similar to Eagle) until you become an adult, when a Knot would be worn instead. I guess the red patch is a collector’s item, and the others to be actually worn on the Uniform.

The Skippers’s Key is listed as available from the Venturing Division, with the Sea Scout Device no. 00931 to be pinned on the knot or medal to signify Sea Scouting. Stnfll (talk) 22:03, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

The other notes section on Uniforms was changed to correct that Venturing Bronze and Gold bars can be worn on Sea Scout Uniform. page 103 sea scout manual for reference. Military Awards and non-BSA awards may not be worn on the sea scout uniform. The placement of the Jamboree patch is not stated in the Sea Scout Manual (as that word only appears once in the book), and inherits the placement from the insignia guide for proper placement for Venturers. Stnfll (talk) 05:19, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Terminology Fixes
I had to make some fixes. Some anonymous person messed things up. Fleet is the term for the National level of Sea Scouts, NOT Region. Region is Flotilla, Area is Task Force. Don't believe me? Take a look at the old Flagship patches that say Flotilla with 3 stars and Fleet with 4. --Emb021 19:02, 23 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Was that you editing as 136.182.158.137? Those terms are also defined in the organization section.  --Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:30, 23 May 2007 (UTC)


 * This would be a lot easier if we had images. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 20:17, 23 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Done. I did not find task force/flotilla insignia on the Sea Scout site  but I can easily edit the Fleet insignia to show three stars.  I do need to tweak the images a bit to get the relative emblem sizes proper.  I suspect the originals were scanned at different sizes.
 * The Language of Scouting does not show any of the Sea Scout terms, but following precedence, ship, squadron, task force and flotilla would be lower case unless referring to a specific unit; while Fleet is capitalized as it always refer to the National Council.
 * Question: Is the director position a professional like Scout executive?  And commodore is equivalent to president?
 * According to Central Flotilla, there is a chief boatswain at each level. I'm presuming this is a youth position?  The isingia at the Se Scout site shows boatswain  with one star- I would presume they would progress through four stars for Fleet chief boatswain.

--Gadget850 ( Ed) 01:55, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The Language of Scouting has never shown the traditional Sea Scout terminology. The director is a professional.  The commodore is committee chair (never president).  Chief Boatswain ('chief' not always used) is the youth position.  There can be squadron boatswain, flotilla boatswain and fleet boatswain.  Too often the traditional terms aren't used and it council, region, national.  Yes, these boatswain would use 2, 3, and four stars.  I know, I've met several.  --Emb021 19:41, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Fixed the terminology for the different levels, and found a post in the archives on the seascout discussion list to reference. It would be helpful if there were pictures for boatswain's patches at all levels. Stnfll (talk) 00:08, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I fixed it again (fleet is national and flotilla is region) Stnfll (talk) 05:36, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * How often are these terms actually used? For example, Googling "national boatswain" yields nore relevant hits than "fleet boatswain". The National Venturing Youth Cabinet refers to the position as National Sea Scout Boatswain.

Sea Scout pins on "BEASCOUT"
I recently updated our unit information on "BEASCOUT" web page. I'm very dissapointed that the Sea Scout logo is not available as a pin. Anybody looking to join Sea Scouts would look at this page, and figure that there is NO Sea Scout unit in the area, unless they bother to check every, of the many "Venturing units" listed. The other problem would be that a potential new applicant, might not know that Sea Scouts is an option. PLEASE, can we change this??? Doug Westphal, Skipper, Ship956 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.176.142 (talk) 18:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Your question is misplaced— we have no control over https://beascout.scouting.org/. The site does not show Varsity teams as separate either. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 12:26, 2 November 2010 (UTC)