Talk:Season's Greetings

NPOV
Please discuss changes here rather than hurling charges of bigotry in the edit comments. If it is impossible to neutrally characterize opinions on use of the phrase, I suggest that the paragraph be removed rather than subjected to pointless revert wars. The paragraph was supposed to characterize the more recent use and controversy surrounding the phrase, not to promote one view or the other. It is clear from its use on Christmas cards that the "season" in "Season's Greetings" was originally the Christmas season. The idea that it is "neutral" is recent, regardless of whether you think that's a good thing or a bad thing. Lindmere 21:01, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Mistakes Made by One and All
My apologies; I acted in haste and leveled an ad hominem of bigotry unjustly. I regret using that term, or even any ad hominem, and in my defense I might only attempt draw attention to the fact that my changes were reverted within five minutes of them being committed; i.e., the reverter was equally as hasty, and acted first. I doubt any time was taken to consider the content of the changes and why they were made.

I do not mean to denigrate other opinions; I only wish to clarify why some might use a certain phrase ("Season's Greetings") instead of another ("Happy Holidays"). As to it being "clear" that it's use on "Christmas" cards is meant to refer to the "Christmas Season", I can only say 1) Christmas isn't a season 2) Maybe "season" was originally intended to replace "Christmas Season", but some people do not intend that anymore than they intend "Happy Holidays" to mean "Happy Christmas". Implying that when somemone says "Season's Greetings" or "Happy Holidays" that they really mean "Merry Christmas" is akin to telling an atheist that "oh, you don't really disbelieve in God, you're just saying that." It's insulting and denigrating.

I will go back and try to put in the paragraph I removed back in, in as NPOV as I can; I would ask for your assistance in making it more correct, but please (and again, this is a request, not a command, as anyone can edit wikipedia) to not just delete or severely rewrite the paragraph I have added as it does represent the truth as well.


 * Thank you for your gentlemanly/gentlewomanly words. I wish you had signed your entry so I could congratulate you for your circumspection around an issue that has become very emotional. My original characterization of the response to "Season's Greetings" was undoubtedly too flippant. I did have an agenda behind it, but not necessarily the one you inferred: by pointing out that "Season's Greetings" was originally used as a Christmas greeting, I wanted to note that the common assumption that it's a P.C.-flavored modern invention is wrong. However, I can see your point that this could be used as a "gotcha" by someone insisting that when you say "season" you really mean "Christmas" (which, in fact, they do). Can we come up with a paragraph that notes the original use and does justice to those who now use it specifically as a non-sectarian greeting?


 * At this late date I have still not settled on what I'm going to wish people, but I'm thinking "Compliments of the Season" might be baffling enough to do the trick. Now if I could just find one of those Victorian cards with a bird riding a bicycle, or cats blowing bubbles. Lindmere 23:06, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Earliest Uses?
A collector's educated opinion would be useful here. I based my chronology on online galleries of Christmas cards. There were many variants of message, and I even found a Thanksgiving card wishing "Season's Greetings." Obviously "greeting cards" were expected to issue a greeting, not just show a pretty picture or offer a wish. While I know that Victorians really did wish each other "Compliments of the Season," did anyone ever use "Season's Greetings" as a spoken greeting, or did it postdate such formal expressions? Lindmere 21:41, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

My, What Busy Talk Nodes You Have!
This is the second time I've had to cut and paste because "Someone else has changed this page since you started editing it." Perhaps I should have been more hasty (I kid, I kid).

If "Season's Greetings" has not been taken up as a spoken greeting, why not start now? I recently came to the idea of using it in place of "Happy Holidays" when I realized I don't consider anything holy (being an atheist). Perhaps it is innappropriate to use this forum (the aim of which might be considered more accurately documenting history) to propagate this idea. If so, I will concede the point and let my added paragraph be deleted.


 * This is "one of those topics" these days. I hope a good New Year's hangover will cure everyone of it, at least until next year. Since the topic is partly usage, I think your point is very valid. Through my (very limited) research I was interested to discover that "Season's Greetings" is not a modern invention but a kind of vestigial remnant of those flowery Victorian greetings. If you are purposely using it to avoid religious sentiments, then I would have to think others are as well, and that is well worth noting as part of the changing meaning of the phrase. Lindmere 17:59, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I Just had a Thought . ..
Lindmere's edits on notes about when "Season's Greetings" came into fashion reminded me of something: Christmas was banned by law in America (for a short time) by Puritans who thought it was becoming "unholy" with all the commercialization and drunken reveling that occured around Christmas. At least that's what I've heard (and that's why I post it here instead of in the article; also, too lazy to research it right now). Perhaps "Season's Greetings" came into effect to try to get around the banning of Christmas? Anybody want to research this?


 * Intriguing theory, but since the Puritan ban was brief and geographically limited, I don't think it was ever "underground" long enough to merit a "secret handshake" type of greeting. The whole "greeting" business is puzzling to me; I'm not sure why a card has to "greet" you, but they surely all do, at least until the 20th century. My own source material was collections of online cards. It would be very interesting to know how many of the variant greetings were actually used by people talking to each other. I guess we've dropped a lot of the longer ones for brevity, but as noted above, I'm now anxious to try out "With the very best compliments of the season" on a clerk at CVS, maybe with a tip of the cap and a bow. Lindmere 17:47, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Proposal for Merger?
User CrazyInSane redirected this article to Holiday. The usual way to do so is to propose the article for merger or deletion according to Wikipedia's deletion policy, rather than summarily redirect it. While this is a seasonal topic that has produced more heat than light, I think the chances of it reappearing next Christmas are high. Lindmere 11:48, 16 April 2006 (UTC)