Talk:Second Empire architecture in the United States and Canada

McAlesters about American 2E houses
A Field Guide to American Houses, by Virginia & Lee McAlester, Alfred A. Knopf, 1990 (but with copyright 1984, perhaps for a hardback edition?) introduces Second Empire as one of a group of Renaissance Classical styles "based upon buildings built during the revival of interest in Ancient Classical models which bagan in Italy in the early 15th century and gradually worked its way" to France (mid 16th century) and to England (early 17th century). "In America.... The French Renaissance tradition inspired the Second Empire (1855-85) and the Beaux Arts (1885-1930) styles as well as some subtypes of the French Eclectic (1915-45) style. A steeply pitched hipped roof, or dual-pitched mansard roof, is a characteristic feature of many of these French Renaissance-inspired houses." (p 6 & 8) Page 9 has simple sketches.

"Victorian Houses: Second Empire", is a chapter from page 240 to 253. Page 243 has detailed sketches of 5 roof shapes (between "curbs" [called "molded cornices on page 240] at bottom and top). Very common: Very  straight, straight with flare, concave.  Very unusual: convex, S-curves (two types).  5 typical dormers & window surrounds. 6 typical cornices. Typical elaborations (in a sketch of a full house, from top to bottom: cupola, round window or dormer, cresting along roof line, patterned roof, projecting central pavilion, bracketed window, paired windows (sometimes triple), quoins, belt course, hooded window, one-story porch, one- or two-story bay windows, paired entry doors sometimes with glass in top half.

Pages 241-42: "Identifying Features: Mansard (dual-pitched hipped) roof with dormer windows on steep lower slope; molded cornices normally bound the lower roof slope both above and below; decorative brackets usually present beneath eaves."

Principal Subtypes [sketches for these appear on page 240]: "Variants and Details: The style is characterized principally by its distinctive roof: five principal mansard silhouettes occur. Decorative patterns of color or texture are common in the roofing materials, as is iron cresting above the upper cornice.  If a tower is present, it may have a roof silhouette different from that of the main house; the convex and ogee (S-curve) shapes, in particular, are more common on towers than on houses.  Dormers and dormer windows appear in a great variety of styles. Beneath the distinctive roof line, Second Empire houses have details that are similar to those of the closely related Italianate style.  Many show Italianate brackets at the cornice line; note, however, that Second Empire houses normally have less eave overhang than do Italianate examples.  Window, door, and porch details are similar to those used in the Italianate style (see the drawings of those details in the Italianate chapter). Unelaborated windows, usually arched above, are also common on Second Empire but are rare in Italianate examples."
 * Simple Mansard Roof (about 20%) ...
 * Centered Wing or Gable (about 20%) ...
 * Assymetrical (about 20%)...
 * Towered (about 30%)...
 * Town House...

"Occurrence: Second Empire was a dominant style for American houses constructed between 1860 and 1880, although the first examples were built in the 1850s and late examples were not uncommon in the 1880s. The style was most popular in the northeastern and midwestern states. It is less common on the Pacific Coast and relatively rare in the southern states, although scattered examples survive in all regions settled before 1880."

"Comments: The contemporaneous Italianate and Gothic Revival styles were part of a Picturesque movement which looked to the romantic past for inspiration. In contrast, the Second Empire style was considered very modern, for it imitated the latest French building fashions. The distinctive roof was named for the 17th-century French architect Francois Mansart. Its use was extensively revived in France during the reign of Napoleon III (1852-70), France's Second Empire, from which the style takes its name. Exhibitions in Paris in 1855 [ Exposition Universelle (1855) ] and 1867 [ International Exposition (1867) ] helped to popularize the style in England, from whence it spread to the United States. The boxy roof line was considered particularly functional because it permitted a full upper story of usable attic space. For this reason the style became popular for the remodeling of earlier buildings as well as for new construction. The Second Empire style was used for many public buildings in America during the Grant administration (1869-77) and has been facetiously called the General Grant style. It rapidly passed from fashion following the panic of 1873 and the subsequent economic depression.'"

Pages 243-53 are photos of specific houses, grouped by the 5 subtypes, with comments. E.g. in the Towered section, with 8 photos: "5. Auburn, Maine; ca. 1880. Jordan House; Charles A. Jordan, architect-builder. Note the arcaded front porch, also seen in figure 8."

About the McAlester material: Yes it is about fashion. I note the U.S. version was contemporaneous with the style in France. Which tends to make meprefer for there to be one article, unless/until necessary for size reasons; splitting was premature perhaps. It may be that splitting out U.S. domestic architecture rather than all U.S. may make sense. -- do nor  am  18:44, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * This whole section should be moved over to Second Empire architecture in the United States and Canada, this article is just about the style in Europe and the McAlesters are strictly American. PS My version is a 1986 paperback, copyright, 1984. Carptrash (talk) 19:05, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Large Revisions
Hi! I thought I would flesh out this page and reorganize it for greater clarity and more historical and cultural information.
 * If you do be sure and sign your edits. Carptrash (talk) 14:41, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Citations & Style
I was originally here because I didn't know what Second Empire architecture was, but I noticed that the "Characteristics" section has no citations at all. I ended up editing a few things in other sections for style, as I found some sentences confusing. I thought similarly of some things in "Characteristics," but I'm hesitant to do too much for fear of misinterpreting confusing statements in my ignorance of architecture and without a reliable source to check against.

If someone more knowledgeable than myself could help me add citations, or at least point me in the direction of a useful source, I'd be very appreciative. - Liv Handsome (talk) 22:14, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

I see no citation for this
This trend began earlier in Canada in such cities as Toronto and Montreal, where Second Empire architecture reminded thousands of returning soldiers of four years of trench warfare in France.

Huh? They spent the war in the trenches, and what they remember is Parisian architecture? Mansard PTSD? Unless we have quotes from thousands of Canadians, this has to go. MarkinBoston (talk) 18:06, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I suspect you’ll wait a long time for a cite too. The statement is complete drivel. By the mid-1920s, people all over the world were looking towards Art Deco, even Art Nouveau was on the wane. Anything considered Victorian, Gothic, over ornate or fussy was considered out of fashion and, often, unhygienic too. Canadian soldiers were well acquainted with Second Empire long before they saw it blown to smithereens in France, I doubt they gave it a second glance or thought. Giano  (talk) 19:08, 13 May 2022 (UTC)