Talk:Second Guessing (song)

Moved redirect to REM song
curprev 05:17, 7 February 2023‎ TonyBallioni talk contribs‎ 85 bytes −5‎  change target to avoid double redirect. If you don't think the redirect should exist after the move, go to WP:RfD undothank Tag: Redirect target changed curprev 05:16, 7 February 2023‎ TonyBallioni talk contribs‎ 90 bytes +77‎  declined undothank Tags: New redirect Undo curprev 04:30, 7 February 2023‎ Yeehaw45 talk contribs‎ 13 bytes −77‎  ←Removed redirect to Second Guessing (R.E.M. song) undothank Tags: Removed redirect Reverted curprev 04:30, 7 February 2023‎ Yeehaw45 talk contribs‎ 90 bytes +90‎  Yeehaw45 moved page Second Guessing to Second Guessing (R.E.M. song): Moving as there is a "Second Guessing" with an actual page now thank Tag: New redirect

Requested move 7 February 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Not seeing a compelling argument as to why one song is primary. Pageviews seem unreliable at this point and we may need to wait if we are going to use that alone.

As for deletion, the FGL song does have multiple chart positions which satisfies part of WP:NSONG, but this isn't the venue for deletion.

I'm leaving this as no consensus in part due to lack of empirical evidence and alleged puppetry, so another RM can be opened to hopefully decide this once and for all. (closed by non-admin page mover) ASUKITE  17:47, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

– Seeing as this is the only song (or anything) named "Second Guessing" with a proper page on Wikipedia, it should be moved to that page, without the need for the "(song)" identifier. This would be consistent with WP:SONGDAB as well. Yeehaw45 (talk) 05:26, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Second Guessing (song) → Second Guessing
 * Second Guessing → Second Guessing (disambiguation)
 * Note: pages with content are ineligible to be new titles in move requests unless they, too, are proposed to be renamed. Second Guessing → Second Guessing (disambiguation) was added to fulfill that need.  P.I. Ellsworth &thinsp;, ed.  put'er there 15:37, 7 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose who? this song charted 124 in US. |Reckoning_(R.E.M._album)|Second_Guessing_(song) Page views nothing compared to the REM song; not sure what else is out there for second guessing In ictu oculi (talk) 14:35, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * And delete. How is this song notable? Since the target was a redirect to the much better known REM song I've reluctantly converted it into a dab for the five songs which are mentioned on en.wp. But pretty evident the REM one is the only well known one. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:39, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * The United States is not the only country that listens to music. The song charted on the Canadian Hot 100, which is a national all-genre chart, thus furthering its notability as per WP:NSONG. Additionally, there are songs with pages on Wikipedia with far less notability. This page has fourteen references, and has charted twice with versions by two separate artists. The song was also featured on a national television program in the United States on two occasions. If we were to delete this page, we might as well delete half the songs that have pages on Wikipedia on general. As for the views, it's not hard to image why the R.E.M. song's page had more views. It was originally listed as "Second Guessing" with no name disambiguation, thus, it received the benefit of being the end result for the search of "Second Guessing". Yeehaw45 (talk) 19:28, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * All the same a delete seems like the best way of serving general readers. There's no reason for this song to have an article. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:33, 9 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose, no PRIMARY.--Ortizesp (talk) 15:56, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * single edit account: *Support per nom Whutca (talk) 05:53, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * single edit account: *Support per WP:SONGDABJukes222 (talk) 16:13, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * NOTE both and  are newly-registered accounts whose only contribution has been to vote in support of this namechange. Difficult to WP:AGF sometimes... 10mmsocket (talk) 16:22, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Well spotted. The Canada IP below also. Meat puppetry? In ictu oculi (talk) 17:30, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
 * In ictu oculi, CU is not consistent with socking (i.e. different people.) No comment on the IP. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:49, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
 * single edit IP * Support per nom 64.229.205.178 (talk) 05:26, 8 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Support: Arguing for page views feels like a moot point when you're looking at a redirect to an article that hardly mentions the album to begin with. This is the only song on that list with an article and I think notability should be the overriding factor that determines this as being primary topic. Also worth noting ictu's very direct WP:BUTIDONTKNOWABOUTIT above as an extra moot argument. QuietHere (talk) 05:39, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Note to editor(s) considering closing this RM: there might be sockpuppetry or at least meatpuppetry involved with this listing (particularly, single edit accounts: User:Whutca, User:Jukes222, User:64.229.205.178). Please give proper balance to policy based arguments or relist to generate broader consensus. Thanks.  ❯❯❯  Raydann  (Talk)   08:13, 14 February 2023 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose No primary song maybe if it was a proper single and not a promotional one. DanTheMusicMan2 (talk) 22:32, 8 February 2023 (UTC)