Talk:Second Sydney Airport

Messy
This article is a bit of a disconnected hodge podge and probably needs to be gone over top to bottom eg

Search on for second Sydney airport By Malcolm Farr From: The Daily Telegraph May 5, 2008 Search on for second Sydney airport This report says "The official quest for a second airport began in 1964 when it was predicted that Sydney airport would be at capacity by 1980" but the article says began in the 80s? --220.101.28.25 (talk) 12:07, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Further Media Reports
Selected quotes, Shane McLeod for The World Today Albanese coy on RAAF base as second Sydney airport ABC News, Updated Nov 23, 2009 6:57pm AEDT, Accessed 21 December, 2009
 * "Speculation that an RAAF base in Sydney's north west could end up as the city's second airport is being downplayed by the Federal Transport Minister."(Anthony Albanese)

The Mayor of Hawkesbury Council, where the Richmond RAAF base is located, is Bart Bassett
 * "We keep saying the same thing we've always said - that it is just not in the right spot for a commercial airport with two historic towns at each end of the current runway."

Ben Sandilands Richmond as a 2nd Sydney airport, pros and cons, Plane Talking November 23, 2009, Accessed 21 December, 2009

The pro Richmond items are:
 * It is going to happen.
 * It will take, potentially 10-20 arrivals or departures an hour by shorter haul domestic single aisle jets, namely Boeing 737s and A320s.
 * This activity will take pressure off Sydney Airport at times of peak demand by longer haul and international jets, as the airport cannot cope with any sustained growth in traffic.

The contra Richmond list includes:
 * No room for serious expansion of the site to the status of a major airport with the 4000 metre runways needed to handle big jets flying long distances and departing on hot days.
 * Limited connectivity with other flights, given the range limitations for longer domestic services.
 * Irrelevancy for short intra state flights, which currently clog the main airport.
 * The need for seriously costly road building to make it more broadly attractive to the greater part of Sydney.
 * A further delay to the real need, which is a full scale airport at the only alternative site left in the Sydney basin, which is preserved at Badgery’s Creek. --220.101.28.25 (talk) 08:39, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Not mentioned in Article
Various Sites, Third Runway, & Related Issues

28 August 1973 Galston chosen as the location of the airport Minister for Transport The Hon. Mr Charlie Jones, MP announces the decision to site the second Sydney airport at Galston, northwest of Sydney. 13 September 1973 It is reported that the ALP Caucus approves the decision of the government to pursue Galston as the site for Sydney's second airport. In addition, Caucus stipulates that another study be conducted into the feasibility of an alternative site in the Canberra-Goulburn area.
 * Department of civil aviation, 'Sydney second airport site chosen', Press Release, 28 August 1973.
 * 'Caucus decision clouds airport issue', Australian, 13 September 1973.

11 June 1974 Galston protest group advocates extra runway at KSA The Galston Airport Protest Committee publishes a report on the airport needs of Sydney. Recommendations are the same as those reached by the CommonwealthState committee, that is, a new runway at KSA should be favoured over the building of a second airport.
 * Galston Airport Protest Committee. Sydney's Airport needs an outline study: The Spring Report. Galston, NSW, The Committee, 1974.

15 October 1975 Consultants report rules out Goulburn location
 * 'Goulburn airport plan killed in Parliament', Sydney Morning Herald, 15 October 1975.

6 July 1976 New inquiry into airport needs initiated Major Airport Needs of Sydney (MANS) group. Five sites are considered for the second airport: Holsworthy; Rossmore-Bringelly; Rouse Hill; Marsden Park and Nelson.
 * 'New inquiry on airport sites planned', Sydney Morning Herald,6 July 1976.
 * MANS. What are the major airport needs of Sydney? Canberra, AGPS, 1977.

27 May 1977 MANS group outlines four zones in which airport could be located The zones include areas near Annangrove, Richmond, Bringelly and Holsworthy.
 * 'Four zones selected for airport study', Sydney Morning Herald, 27 May 1977.

12 June 1978 MANS may recommend second runway. It is reported that the MANS group will recommend the building of a third runway over the construction of a second airport.
 * 'Sydney misses out on second airport', Australian, 12 June, 1978.

22 May 1981 Government confirms that airport will not be at Holsworthy
 * Telegram from Minister for Transport the Hon. R. Hunt to the Hon. Les Johnson, MHR for Hughes, Opposition Whip, 22 May 1981.

5 March 1983 Change of Government Federal Election. Hawke ALP Government replaces Fraser LIB NCP Government. 27 September 1983 second Sydney Airport Site Selection Programme commences
 * Parliamentary Handbook. Canberra : Department of the Parliamentary Library, 1996.
 * 'Second Sydney airport site', News Release, Minister for Aviation, 27 September, 1983.

18 September 1984 Sites for second airport narrowed down Sites that had also been considered included Bringelly, Darkes Forest, Gundary Plains near Goulburn, Holsworthy, Londonderry, Scheyville, Somersby, and Warnervale.
 * The Hon. K Beazley, MP, Minister for Aviation, 'Wilton and Badgerys Creek selected for further study as location for SSA. News Release, 18 September 1984, 84/79.

3 May 1985 Proposed layouts for two sites released The Minister for Aviation, Mr Morris, releases for public comment the proposed layouts for the second airport at Badgerys Creek and Wilton.
 * The Hon. Peter Morris, MP, Minister for Aviation, 'Minister previews proposed second Sydney airport layouts', News Release, 3 May 1985, 85/014.

17 February 1986 Badgerys Creek announced The Government announces that Badgerys Creek is to be the site for the second airport. Land acquisition is to start immediately, but a timetable for construction is to depend on needs. KSA is to remain the principal Sydney airport. 22 March 1989 Decision to build third runway announced ...begin the development of a second airport at Badgerys Creek. The remainder of land required for the second airport is to be acquired, and a general aviation facility to be constructed immediately. The Hon. Bob Hawke, MP, Joint statement from the Prime Minister and the Minister for Transport and Communications the Hon. Ralph Willis, 22 March 1989.
 * The Hon. Peter Morris, MP, Minister for Aviation 'Second Sydney airport site announced', News Release, 17 February 1986.

30 April 1991 Study shows no pressing need for second airport It is reported that a study by Coopers and Lybrand had found that the third runway at KSA would obviate the need for a second airport until 2014. 26 June 1992 Construction at Badgerys Creek commences It is reported that Senator Collins, the Minister for Transport and Communications, turns the first sod at Badgerys Creek to symbolise the commencement of stage one of construction. 17 December 1992 Construction of general aviation airport approved by Parliament The Minister for Shipping and Aviation Support announces that Federal Parliament had approved the first stage of the airport at Badgerys Creek. Construction is to commence in 1992, and the airport operational in 1995. The first stage is to comprise a 1800m runway and general aviation facilities.
 * 'Badgerys 'not needed until 2014', The Bulletin, 30 April 1991
 * 'Badgerys Ck airport work starts', 27 June 1992
 * Senator the Hon. Peter Cook, Minister for Shipping and Aviation Support 'Work to start at Badgerys Creek airport' Press Release, 17 December 1992/92.

4 November 1994 Third runway opens The third runway at KSA opens six months ahead of schedule and $32m below budget. Subsequently, it is reported that there are numerous protests against the extra noise generated. It is claimed that this noise is primarily the result of aircraft not keeping to designated flight paths.
 * The Hon. Laurie Brereton, MP, Minister for Transport and Industrial Relations. 'Opening of the parallel runway at Sydney airport', News Release, 4 November 1994.

10 July 1995 Qantas to resist moves to Badgerys Creek It is reported that in a submission to the Senate inquiry into airport noise, the Australian Air Transport Association says that it would cost Qantas one billion dollars to move from KSA to Badgerys Creek. 2 March 1996
 * Badgerys Creek move to cost Qantas $1bn: report', Sydney Morning Herald, 10 July 1995.

Change of Government Federal Election. Howard LIB NPA Government replaces Keating ALP Government Parliamentary Handbook. Canberra, Department of the Parliamentary Library, 1996. September 1997 eliminated as a potential location The Government announces that it has eliminated the Holsworthy site as a potential location of the airport on environmental grounds. Environmental assessment of the Badgerys Creek site is to continue. The Hon. John Sharp, MP, Minister for Transport and Regional Development and Senator the Hon. Robert Hill, Minister for the Environment. 'Government pushes ahead on Badgerys Creek', 3 September 1997, TR114/97. 12 October 1997 Airlines want to stay at KSA It is reported that major airlines, including Qantas, are lobbying the government to abandon plans for a second airport, and encouraging the expansion of KSA as a substitute. 29 March 2001 Sale of Sydney (Kingsford-Smith) Airport The Federal Government decides to sell the lease to operate KSA Airport during the second half of the year. 24 September 2001 Deferral of sale of KSA Minister for Finance and Administration, the Hon. John Fahey, MP, announces the deferral of the sale of Sydney airport following the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington.
 * 'Airlines push for fourth runway', Sun-Herald, 12 October 1997.
 * Hon. John Anderson and Senator the Hon. Rod Kemp, Media Release, 29 March 2001
 * Minister for Finance and Administration, Media Release, 24 September 2001

25 June 2002 Sydney (Kingsford-Smith) Airport sold The Southern Cross consortium purchases KSA for $5.588 billion. The sale does not change existing operating arrangements such as the 11pm to 6am curfew and the 80 aircraft movements per hour cap.
 * 'Sydney Airport sells for $5.588 billion', Joint Media Statement, John Anderson MP and Senator Nick Minchin, 25 June 2002

27 July 2003 There will be no airport at Badgery's Creek under Labor. Leader of the Opposition, the Hon Simon Crean announces in a media release that there will be no second Sydney Airport built at Badgerys Creek under a Crean Labor Government.
 * 'No Airport at Badgery's Creek under Labor', Joint Media Release, Simon Crean MP and Martin Ferguson MP, 27 July 2003
 * 'Crean risks revolt over airport' Australian, 28 July 2003
 * 'Labor's plane threat to Sydney residents', Press Release, John Anderson MP, 27 July 2003

28 May 2004 NSW Government is considering Wells Creek as a possible second Sydney Airport Site NSW Minister for Planning, Mr Craig Knowles, commissioned a study of the suitability of Wells Creek for Sydney's second airport. The merits of the site over Wilton were also examined.
 * 'Found: a new airport option: High praise for Sothern Highlands site', Sydney Morning Herald, 28 May 2004, p.1

10 May 2005 Second Sydney Airport will not be required for another 20 years and the 2005 review will In a reply to a question in writing from the Shadow Minister for Primary Industries, Resources and Tourism, Mr Martin Ferguson, the Minister for Transport and Regional Services, Hon. John Anderson, MP, stated that it had been the Government’s intention that it would review Sydney’s airport needs in 2005. At that time, the Government concluded that Sydney Airport would be able to cope with increasing air traffic to the end of the decade and that it would be premature to build a second major airport. Since that time, originally stated in December 2000, fundamental changes have taken place in the aviation industry, which which have led the Government to form the view that a second Sydney airport will not be needed in the foreseeable future. The Sydney Airport Master Plan, which was approved last year, indicated that the airport would be able to cope with Sydney’s air traffic needs for at least twenty years
 * "Question in Writing: Sydney (Kingsford Smith) Airport (Question No. 421)", 10 May 2005, House Hansard, pp.151-152

SOURCE: Updated by Richard Webb & Rowena Billing, |Second Sydney Airport—A Chronology Federal Parliamentary Library, 29 August 2005, Retrieved 17 December 2009 --220.101.28.25 (talk) 15:23, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

MISCELLANEOUS/COMMENT: You have a lot of information plus their references. You should update the Sydney second airport article to make it much more substantial as I agree that the article needs to be thoroughly updated. Was there anything in the latest aviation paper about Sydney's second airport? I think that there is some taskforce that is planning to solve this issue. Hope the government will take the issue more seriously. --Eliz2009 (talk) 18:43, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

2014: Negative reactions to a second airport at Badgerys Creek
This section should also include the following: TSitalkes (talk) 06:16, 26 May 2016 (UTC)he last EIS was shown to be a rushed, biased job that only considered one scenario -a financially viable airport. Objections to the airport are many: - it would be far more beneficial to build a very fast train line - visual pollution, emissions, and aircraft noise will adversely affect the World Heritage status of the Blue Mountains National Park. The EIS suggests that there will be planes flying low over the Blue Mountains every five minutes. - Bush fire prevention and fire fighting. The Blue Mountains is one of the most bushfire prone ares of Australia. hazard reduction burns and fire fighting require the use of aircraft that would not be able to fly because they would be in the flight paths. Alternatively, the smoke will shut down the airport. - Mist and fog. There are frequent misty/foggy mornings in the area that will shut down the airport - Peak oil. It's likely that by the time the airport is built the price and/or availability of jet fuel will be such that only a few people can fly, and there won't be any need for the airport. - bird and bat strikes. The EIS only did a three day study in the immediate area of the airport when it is normal for such studies to take a year to examine this issue, because of bird migrations and other seasonal events. The National Park is likely to have flocks of birds in it but was not included in the study. - water quality. The aircraft will by flying over Sydney's main water supply catchment and their emissions and fuel dumping could pollute the water. They may also crash in it as landing on water is a preferred emergency procedure. - changes in technology. Planes are getting bigger so fewer flights can carry more passengers and so the existing airport can cope with the increase in passengers. - government policy on wages. Government policy on wages is to reduce real wages. Real wages have to rise if increases in the price of airline tickets are not to cause a drop in demand for flights - Effects on tourism and local residents. The Blue Mountains is a quiet area to which people move because they want the peace and quiet and therefore don't mind putting up with the problems inherent in living so far from the centre of Sydney. Tourists come to the Blue Mountains for its natural beauty, not because they want to hear amd see planes flying overhead every five minutes - the existing airport can cope with the increase in air traffic if the overnight curfew is ended. It is so unfair to say that it's Ok for the western suburbs to cop overnight flights but not the eastern suburbs... Sitalkes (talk) 06:16, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

History section
I've tagged this section as having multiple issues, partly it's written in a story telling style, but mostly because there's all kinds of claims being made which definitely need citations. There's conflicting comments like the comparison with Melbourne which says started planning around the same time, but that appears to very much depend on how you define "started planning".

It probably also needs expansion. There seems to be limited treatment of early consideration for the second airport at a federal level (which we know from cabinet papers) with more focus here on the state level. Given the significance of controversy including single-issue political parties about it at one stage, there's potentially enough in this for a separate section. I'll try to contribute to this where I can, but for now I didn't want to strafe the whole section with on all the problematic sentences and just tagged the whole section instead. Rob.au (talk) 08:53, 7 May 2024 (UTC)