Talk:Secondary education in the United States/Archive 1

School students image
Image:Moanaluastudents.jpg is used in many articles about schools, it would be best to find a replacement before it is deleted for lack of source and copyright. If we all look together we should find one in no time. Please post your responses at Image talk:Moanaluastudents.jpg. Thanks! Foofy 21:06, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Cliques
I think the mention of "Subcultures and Cliques" is little more than POV and original research which should be removed *or* should be backed up with appropriate citations, and varying opinions. I prefer its removal though. If this kind of thing was mentioned in a specific high school, where it *actually* verifiably existed; I and others would still remove it as pure trivia. The fact its mentioned on a global basis, when such terms are obviously not universal makes it all the worse. If people wish to learn about stereotypes/subcultures in school, they can watch Saved by the Bell re-runs, and "learn" the same "information". In fact, despite being Canadian, the TV show Degrassi: The Next Generation probably tells more about culture in US high schools, than does this article. --Rob 16:39, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I removed the culture section. I expect someone to put it back.  That's fine.  But do it with sources.  People shouldn't just write about their personal understanding of the typical high school.  Doing so, does nothing to inform people.  We need verifiable factual information.  Somebody reading this article should read something they didn't know, or didn't beleive, but can verify is true.   --Rob 06:14, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

General improvements
I get a definite feeling that this article needs to be expanded. It covers what high school is in a cold, technical way, but the beauty of wikipedia is that we can really use it to give an impression of what high school IS - to the kids. The cliques, the drama, the way kids change during those 4 years, college aps, there's so much that isn't mentioned here. Those 4 years are when kids incubate and become adults.


 * I disagree with your assertion to the extent that you are suggesting that the tone should be changed from a cold, impersonal one to a more personal one. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a blog.  Please review the basic Wikipedia policies before you start posting silly things.


 * On the other hand, with regard to subject matter, I agree that the subject matter should be broadened. The social dynamics of American high schools may be an appropriate subject for this article, to the extent that they can be described from a neutral point of view (appropriately reinforced with citations to authoritative sources).  --Coolcaesar 01:55, 12 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I also agree that the social dynamics of American high schools would be an appropriate subject to be discussed in this article. As a student in an American high school, I could probably help with that.  As well, there are several articles on Wikipedia about student culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Student_culture).  There is a high school subculture article that could be a good place from which to gather information that could go here. --Der Sporkmeister 13:02, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Actually, the fact your are "...a student in an American high school..." gives you *no* extra ability to contribute to this article. This is an encyclopedia, which must have only verifiable information.  We must not let our personal experiences enter the encycopedia (without verification).  We all know lots of stuff, that's not verifiable, that's true, interesting, but not usable due to the Verifiability policy of wikipedia.  Wikipedia is not a place to share knowledge gained exclusively through personal experience (surprisingly).    --Rob 06:20, 10 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree with all of the above, but I was wondering if the "greater control given" with "students able to chose even their core subjects"sections weren't in contradiction to the lower stages of the article in which it states that high schools require "that courses in the areas of English, science, social science, and mathematics be taken by the students every year." I thought these two points to be contradiction and hence I would be gratefull if they could be corrected.

Substantial deletion of unverified information planned
Ok, the cleanup tags have been around a while. It seems nobody is likely to do the research needed to verify information, and cite sources for all the claims in the article. As a result, its time to start removing any and all unverified statements. This article is based largely on "common knowledge". Much of it, maybe all of it, could well be true. But, something has to be verifiably true to exist on Wikipedia.

For example, if a course option is "standard", than find a source that says that. What percent of schools offering an option makes it standard? Much of this article also has weasel words, where near-truisms are expressed. For instance, "If funds are available, a high school may provide Advanced Placement or International Baccalaureate courses". One could qualify everything a school does with "If funds are available, a high school may provide...". If funds are available a school may provide almost anything (it probably won't but it could), and if funds aren't available it can't provide anything. How does this statement inform the reader? What percent of schools offer the special programs, and what percent of students take them? Do all states offer them?

If anybody wishes to add sources, I'll happily leave the article alone. That's why I'm putting this on the talk page, instead of being WP:BOLD. --Rob 08:20, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree that much of the article needs to be either purged or verified with sources. I think you should fee free to be bold! --Coolcaesar 06:13, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Setup
I plan on going through this all at some point.

I know of a district with seperate 6,7 and 8th grade buildings.

another with a seperate 9th grade building

mine has 6-7, 8-9, 10-12 buildings

and those are three of the largest in the state.

--flyingember —Preceding undated comment added 04:45, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Which is the main article?
Whereas this article's section on High School lists High School as the main article, High School's section about American High School refers to this article as the main one. Which one is? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.166.244.158 (talk) 12:36, 30 March 2006‎ (UTC)

Grading question
Yarg, of what use is giving all these grades when you don't tell what ages students are supposed to be (on average)? 32.106.202.210 19:44, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Photo
Can we please replace the picture of the bored-looking girl? Sure, high school was boring at times, but come on. There's gotta be a better picture out there we can use. Wl219 04:20, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Criticism
Wow you mean to tell me theres no criticism of the American public school system??!!....Yeah riiiight somebody's being TOO neutral if you ask me --Blackdragon6 —Preceding undated comment added 21:49, 31 July 2007‎ (UTC)

Gifted vs AP
These are currently classified as the same groups of people. This is so wrong! First of all, AP should be in its own section. Taking an AP class does not require a special talent in that area. It is just a harder class with more rigorous standards. Second of all there is no such thing as a gifted student! People who are gifted in one area are very likely to have learning disabilities in others. There should be a section entitled "Alternative Learning Styles" or something like that. Better yet would be to word the title so that assistance provided to students in all areas could be included - peer counseling, physical assistance, etc. CClio333 16:10, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Name Vs System?
I go to a Middle School, at least that's what it is called. Our class doesn't move around in groups to go to the exact same classes with the exact same people, if that's what this article is talking about. I didn't understand much of it, to be honest. Students can also have two electives which includes things besides music, which Middle Schools apparently don't have. Can Junior High schools be called Middle Schools?OrangeAipom 05:38, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * You're right, the article is unclear. It seems to me that a lot of the articles on education in the US were being worked on when somebody lost interest, leaving a great big mess. Terms vary by school district. My personal opinion is that a Junior High must have ninth grade (and possibly tenth grade) students, but just try finding a good internet source that says that, and you'll see why people gave up on these articles. AnteaterZot 09:02, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

More references needed
I tagged the article as requiring more references. An article this long and comprehensive ought to have a lot more than the current two. Cosmo0 (talk) 15:23, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Sports (US)
Sports are a big part (too big?) of the American high school scene. I am unable to find anything in Wikipedia that defines schools by "Division" I, II, III and IV, which is how leagues are constructed. While it doesn't have to be here, there should at least be a link to such a section. A good article might force links from high school instead of enumerating repetitive lists of sports that nearly all US schools play. Student7 (talk) 19:15, 18 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Whoops. Found one good reason why no generalized statement can be made about divisions. Ohio numbers division backwards from the states I am familiar with. Largest are small numbers, smallest are large numbers. In Florida and Vermont, the larger the number, the larger the school. Oh well. Student7 (talk) 19:19, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Europe
There is an article comparing the US with the Canadian medical system: Canadian and American health care systems compared. I assume each has an article on its own syste.

This article seems to do a lot of comparison with Europe. I don't think that is appropriate. The US system evolved independently of Europe after the 18th century or so. It would be okay, if there is no article yet, do define one that compares the two systems. But all that should be done here is to present what the US does. Not compare it whether favorably or unfavorably with some other country. What, no comparison with Burma? WP:BIAS! :)  Student7 (talk) 20:53, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Explanations for non-US readers
This article seems to have been written purely from the point of view of an American readership and much of it is completely baffling to anyone who is unfamiliar with the US system. The article needs to be expanded to explain about the American grade system. Which ages correspond with which grades? How do you pass a grade? What does the graduation exam involve? At what age do children begin their secondary education in the US? Dahliarose 13:00, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

-- This is because many Americans don't even realize how diverse their own education system is. Not all states require graduation exams and the curriculum offered varies depending on the district. The grouping of grades depends also on the state and district as well as funding. I looked this up recently, the state I live in uses property taxes to fund public schools- the dirt poorest district, which is in a very rural community, only funds their students at $1,600 per students where as the most affluent district gets $29,000 per student a year, the ACT/SAT test scores certainly show the difference. Anyhow on the grades, again each state/district sets the rules, Kindergarten (if offered) 4-6 years old, 1'st grade 5-7 years old, 2'nd grade 6-8 years old, 3'rd grade 7-9 years old. 4'th grade 8-10 years old, 5'th grade 9-11 years old, 6'th grade 10-12 years old, 7'th grade 11-13 years old, 8'th grade 12-14 years old, 9'th grade 13-15 years old, 10'th grade 14-16 years old, 11'th grade 15-17 years old, 12'th grade 16-18 years old. Most public schools only allow students to attend until 21 years of age at which point their last option for an academic education is to attend classes, typically subsidized, and get a GED. Compulsory attendance varies between 14-18 years of age depending on the State. An increasing trend is some students are earning their GED then attending college before they would have graduated. Some poorer rural schools combine the elementary students from grades 1-6 into 2 year blocks Eg; 1'st and 2'nd grade in the same class, so they can "Max" out the class size to the largest state allowable size to save money on teachers. A few districts, mostly urban, attend school year round with the students divided into 3 groups that rotate between 6 weeks of classes and 3 weeks of break to save money on both teachers and buildings instead of the traditional around Labor day to around Memorial day set up. Some districts break the school organization into Elementary, Middle, Junior High, and High school while others break it into Elementary, Middle School, and High School. In very rare occasions, mostly in dirt poor rural districts, there is only one school building housing all grades. There is a common misconception that inner-city schools are the poorest while in fact the poorest districts are in rural areas. There is also a misconception that private schools offer a higher quality education but this isn't always true either. Some schools offer either a JROTC program, increasingly this is the case as they get additional Federal funding and resources if they offer it, and Vocational-Technical (Vo-Tech) programs to prepare the student for a vocation instead of college along with a curriculum designed to prepare them for college. Jsoo1 08:51, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

i agree, im english and was trying to find out at what age you leave the US education system. this articleisnt very well set out or understandable. a goodstart would just be to include the above information in the article --Allie cabab (talk) 20:15, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Junior high vs middle schools
3/4 of all middle schools contain 6th grade, but never grade nine. Junior high contains 7-9. While some school boards have had to move children's grades so they fit in the school (!), very few have gone so far as to chisel off the name "junior high" out front. This is why this may seem "the same" to the casual onloooker. But it was not originally intended to be that way (missing ninth grade in jr high). Student7 (talk) 19:14, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

American High School fork
Because the article High School has a truncated version by country and refers to this article which is not, strictly speaking about high schools. It cannot be used as a link in all high schools in the US. Because this article contains middle schools and junior high schoolm neither can it be used as a link for high schools. Really need to restructure here so a link can be used for each schools without worrying that schools will be lumped in that shouldn't be. Insisting on lumping all schools together as if they always are in reality, is not a good idea. Works for teachers, but not for Wikipedia articles. Student7 (talk) 11:09, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I suggest that we create a High school (United States) article (which is currently a redirect to this article) into which we can move the bulk of the content from the 'High schools' section of this article, and most of the content from the US section of the High school article. The school article will focus on the regulation, operation and funding of the schools themselves. The education article can then cover US secondary education more generally, be it delivered in high school, middle school, junior high school, or other places, including by home schooling. Fyi, I recently created an Elementary school (United States) which did the same sort of job for Primary education in the United States. Thoughts? PeterEastern (talk) 06:30, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Now, that is redundant, as secondary education IS high school, and primary education IS elementary school. They are synonyms (different varieties of English and/or country/region specific) and multiple articles about the same thing is unnecessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Notwillywanka (talk • contribs) 07:10, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
 * My take on this is that education and schools are as different as sleeping and bedrooms. My understanding is that Education in the USA can happen at home, middle school, charter school, university-preparatory school or high School, some but all of which are Comprehensive high schools. There will be different issues and content that relates to all of these. Notice that there aren't even links to many of these types of school from this article at present as far as I can see. PeterEastern (talk) 18:22, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Education takes place in schools, whether they are "home schools", or what not. Secondary Education takes place after primary education, and is synonymous with "high school". Middle schools are not high schools, and secondary education does not take place in middle schools. Charter schools are a "kind" of school, in the way they are governed, not the "level" they teach, there are elementary charter schools, and high schools that are charter schools, it means that it has received a charter, and is not part of a "school board". A "University-Preparatory" school is a type of "High-School", and not a separate level. Education in the USA, is divided into "three" levels, primary, secondary and tertiary, however you seem to be muddling the meanings, while confusing the levels. An encyclopedia is supposed to be a place where people come to gain knowledge about things, not create more confusion. There is no reason to create a redundant article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Notwillywanka (talk • contribs) 21:42, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
 * , what is your experience with the US School system, apart from what you are getting from the internet, as you seem to be editing these articles in a very British-centric way. The USA is comprised of fifty States, each that has retained their sovereignty in all matters that they have not delegated to the Federal Government through the constitution. All local school boards, school districts, cities, counties, etc. receive their authority, and jurisdiction, from the State in which they are located. The States are not "devolved" jurisdictions, like in Canada, The UK, etc. the Federal is the Devolved authority. State Education Departments/Boards/Authorities create and designate curriculum for their state, graduation requirements, and standards that Individual High Schools, and/or Local School Authorities must follow, regardless of the "type" of school.
 * My knowledge if US schools is far from complete, so please add, correct and challenge my contributions. Personally, I have been very surprised at the lack of engagement these articles and would be very happy if others were contributing more. The best way is probably for you to make corrections to the articles as you see fit - if we disagree we can then bring the questions to the talk pages. Fyi, I have no problem with the changes you have made so far. I am very aware of the state autonomy, however the federal guys do seem to have significant influence whenever they are dishing our money to states and then put conditions on what states need to do to get it. PeterEastern (talk) 18:12, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, there is a lot of "arm twisting" by the feds, and for the most part the States have not challenged it, as they like the money, and the "demands" have not been too unreasonable. Take the interstate highway funding, it is dependent on having the alcohol purchasing age set to 21. Alcohol age, consumption, distribution, etc., is not part of Federal authority. There have been many instances where the States have taken the Feds to court over things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Notwillywanka (talk • contribs) 19:06, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

I want to thank PeterEastern for all his recent work. I do agree that, for the US, Primary Education includes Elementary Schooling and Middle Schooling. Secondary school always begins at grade nine. Student7 (talk) 02:00, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the note. I am however very aware that the High school (United States) article has been assembled by someone who has never been in a school in the USA, unless you count a peek into an abandoned one in Detroit where the desks and chairs were sitting in 6 inches deep in water! Do please review my work on these articles and correct/expand/balance my wording. PeterEastern (talk) 18:44, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

LBGT high schools
There are apparently three high schools in the US that cater to LGBT students. They comprise maybe a total of 400 students at most. In 2009, one was under scrutiny for poor performance. Mentioning them explicitly in this article seems WP:UNDUE. They are 400 out of maybe 12 million high school students. I think the name(s) of the school could be in a footnote, at most. Even that overlooks dozens of schools established for some other purpose. Student7 (talk) 15:07, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * There is no overlooking "dozens of schools established for some other purpose.", the sentence clearly states that there are schools "for special social groups such as", It is not a "closed list", nor is it comprehensive, it is an other example of an "alternative" to the standard high-school, just like "special high schools with examinations to admit only the highest performing students, such as Boston Latin School or Alexandria, Virginia's Thomas Jefferson High School.", and "Other high schools cater to the arts."... I easily found three LGBT schools, with references, that does not mean they are the only "alternative" high schools for any social group that might exist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Notwillywanka (talk • contribs) 02:58, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, there are a lot of schools in the county catering to high tech, the arts, high performing students. Dozens, or maybe hundreds? You are right. With such a large number of students, these might even be worth mentioning. But three small schools that slightly smack of segregation? Sounds a bit WP:POV for the tiny number of students affected. Student7 (talk) 18:56, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
 * There is no more "segregation" at these schools than there is at schools that have entrance exams, or schools that cater to minorities. In contrast to arts schools, or "highest performing student" schools, the "LGBT" schools welcome everyone, there is no "test" to see if you meet the criteria. I think you have it backwards, they are more inclusive than schools "catering to high tech, the arts, high performing students" in the COUNTRY.

Basic information missing
I came here to find out about the down-to-earth facts of high schools in America. I didn't find them. Here is the sort of information I wanted but did not find: in general (I realize there is a lot of  variation, but I'd like SOME idea), what time does the school day start, how long are individual classes, when does school end, how are extracurricular activities etc. handled (e.g., are they after school, required, etc.), when does the school day end (classes and other activities such as extracurricular activities and teacher's office hours), what days of the week  is school held, what is the school year (i.e., especially, when in the calendar year do schools open and when is graduation), what about summer school, what is detention, how are study halls handled? 211.225.33.104 (talk) 02:08, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
 * This encyclopedia page is a general overview of "Secondary Education in the US". All of the questions you are asking can not be answered here, as there is no "National" education system/regulations/curriculum like in smaller/unitary countries. The US is a Union of 50 Sovereign states, and each state has jurisdiction over education. Within each state there are "school districts" (or some other name for the same thing), and each one has one or more high schools that are administered locally. Every school is different, and the specifics you want can only be answered for each individual school for that individual school.--Notwillywanka (talk) 23:57, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

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Redirects
There have been a flurry of messy discussions around Talk:High school, Talk:Secondary school, Talk:Secondary education, and the creation of High school (North America) as opposed to High school (United States). This is what I recommend: Ping me if I can be helpful, but these are my recommended routes out of the mess czar  18:09, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Secondary school → Secondary education: There is no substantive difference in scope between the articles except for the discussion of building architecture, which should be covered in the latter anyway
 * High school → Secondary_education: The latter defines the "high school" as a type of secondary school and disambiguates to the related "secondary education in X country" to read about the high school of choice. (This doesn't mean every usage of high school needs to be disambiguated, as general references to secondary education are fine, but if the secondary education is in reference to a specific country's system, the disambiguation makes more sense.)
 * High school (United States) → Secondary education in the United States, as is already the case
 * Delete (or rename and merge, if needed) High school (North America), which should have been put at High school (United States) based on its scope and nonetheless duplicates what is already adequately scoped within the existing article on secondary schooling in the U.S.


 * Thanks for the effort. This has all been done before and come to a slightly different but still not perfect solution. Just a few reasons why your proposals were not adopted before.

It is interesting to see the redirect list. Some are excessive links in biographys "Ẅhen I had finished High School...etc" has  already put in a lot of good work trying to sort out the mess- but what is needed is some assistance- not an attempt to go back to where we were in June and before. Many of the reasons were spelled out in detail on the old Talk:High school page- starting 20 August 2017 but the debate appeared to start in January 2006, ClemRutter (talk) 20:42, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Secondary School/Education- the articles can not be developed if they are combined. It fails Good article criteria 3a/ 3b. separating allows editors to focus. There is much duplicated material that eventually will be edited out as they aim for GA.
 * High school has so many meanings. If appears to have a clear meaning in Canada and the US- but elsewhere it is all over the place. To relate a short anecdote from a High School in Maidstone, Kent UK. A sixty year old new appointee asked me why he didn't have any classes that in former times would have been at a Grammar school- when I explained that in Kent a High School, was not a 11-18 comprehensive school but the lowest rung of a selective ladder- ie a Secondary Modern- his face dropped and he said- I have been seriously duped. All education articles need to refer to the ISCED classsifications
 * High school (United States) → Secondary education in the United States, as is already the case. ✅ Agree
 * High school (North America)- I have many thoughts here- but most were killed by contrary examples. Firstly this article is not for North American readers, it has to be understood by someone who has not been to one. The title is clumsy- but High School (United States) upsets Canada and it is/was occupied. High School (America) No esta la mismo in México y Brasil! High school alone needs to be disambed- just saying, (for other uses... ) causes nationalistic friction- and Edinburgh High School founded in 1128 has a pre-existing claim.

Is there anything we should be changing now, with consensus, or shall I let this sleeping dog lie until it we're sure that it's barking up the right tree? Certes (talk) 18:54, 13 October 2017 (UTC)


 * I am watching with interest, what other proposals are made and the reasoning, but I suspect there will be none, give it another week and we can evaluate the situation, and if necessary tweak the strategy. ClemRutter (talk) 23:28, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Weeks later now and I still don't see the case for separating High school (North America). My proposal above covers all bases, and content can be merged to the existing sections as needed. (not watching, please ping ) czar  19:25, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
 * All of us on this thread are trying to sort out the mess. I am hampered by not having been educated in the system, and you are hampered by not having been educated outside the system, and this may explain why we are focusing from different angles. Before I started the article trying to describe what a North American high school was I looked at all the existing articles and tried to look for an easy fix. To a European, secondary education runs from 11-18, and the student finishes with an externally validated exam- the Bac, the abitur, the A level. It encompasses ISCED 2 and 3- the North American system appears very strange in that there is no externally validated final exam. What we are looking for is an article like Gymnasium (Germany).
 * I too looked at Secondary education in the United States- but I wouldn't know where to start. Looking at sentence one of the lead. In most jurisdictions, secondary education in the United States refers to the last four years of statutory formal education (grade nine through grade twelve) either at high school or split between a final year of 'junior high school' and three in high school This is not supported by reference 1, and immediately contradicted by reference 2 (p.85) which gives a description of the US system, and a clear description of the UK system (with one major mistake on the diagram but the text is correct for 2005). The text of the article seems to continue to confuse elementary education with primary- never having adjusted to the ISCED levels. The transfer from elementary school to junior high then high school is implied in some sentences but not in others. Then there is a section on Middle Schools which of course is unreferenced. The Refimprove was placed in 2008- is says it all.
 * I cannot see a way to rescue this article in the present form- so keep the referenced history section, go through using reference 2 p 86, doing a section on the structure of US education as a portal to three many articles Elementary School (North America) ISCED 1, Middle School (North America) ISCED 2 and High School (North America) ISCED 3. - Do a section on statistics - Do a section on current issues. If Canada doesn't object- sure (North America) could be changed to (United States), that is cosmetic. I think that gives a framework that will work, and it will lead the way to article expansion. Thanks for maintaining your interest. ClemRutter (talk) 01:03, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * What sources are you using to substantiate the independent idea of a "North American high school"? If none, the article should be deleted. If the topic is "High school (United States)", that topic was already redirected to the current "secondary ed in the U.S." article, from which the topic can expand summary style. If you're unsatisfied with how the U.S. secondary ed article covers the topic of high school, which seems to be the case, I can help find sources (I have a background in the history of education) but that's a different discussion than whether the "North American high school" exists as a separate concept from the "American (U.S.) high school". czar  06:45, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I am suffering from a bad case of Deja vu here! Above I have given a detailed critique- you do need to read the articles and particularly Secondary education in the United States- read carefully reference 2 p86 .That reference gives the justification for the approach I am following. My background is in writing syllabi, governing schools, sitting on LEA Education Committees, as well as working in them, and exchanging with German and French schools. I question the historic decision to erase and redirect the HS(US) article in September 2009- but that was eight years ago and US High schools and WP have moved on. From your experience, how long do we normally wait before re-examining such a decision? ClemRutter (talk) 10:58, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * "High school (United States)" was created as a redirect in 2009 so there never was a discussion... But again, WP follows summary style and U.S. middle, junior high, and high schools should be adequately explained in the secondary ed article before being split out as separate concepts.
 * There is no "reference #2" on p. 86, unless you're referring to the "United States" entry of World Education Encyclopedia: A Survey of Educational Systems Worldwide? What's your page citation? (Also note that their subheading is "Secondary education" not "High school".)
 * But I'd like to at least first acknowledge that there is no such thing as the "North American high school". Everything written there so far is specific to the United States, not North America. Again, we can discuss how to fix the secondary ed (in the U.S.) article, but first need to resolve the outgrowth of the "NA high school". (By the way, to answer your question on where to start, the lede of the secondary ed in the U.S. article is indeed wrong—secondary includes middle/junior high schools, not just last four years. I have no idea why the World Educ Encycl U.S. article skips early secondary altogether—major oversight.) czar  16:02, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Possible deletion of inaccurate content
I'm editing this piece and some of the information seems if not irrelevant, at least more opinion-based than it should be for a Wiki article. Specifically I'm referring to the last section, "Media." I understand having a list of examples of American high school for reference, but the passages before and after the list seem both like opinions and irrelevant to the focus of the article. I'd like to delete these descriptions around the list and add information about the movies and how they portray high schools versus the reality. Also a comparison could be made about a typical 80s high school and present day.

Also, some of the information in the history section was inaccurate or extraneous so I deleted some of that and tried to back it up with more veritable information. Does this section seem complete now? I'm still wondering whether more information could be added about the development of high school, specifically, over time instead of keeping this section's focus on public school and how they came to be. Laporekb (talk) 15:22, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160208164709/http://www.bls.gov/ooh/education-training-and-library/high-school-teachers.htm to http://bls.gov/ooh/education-training-and-library/high-school-teachers.htm/

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Definition of "grade"
This article would benefit from a definition of what a "grade" is. Presumably it defines classes of pupils of similar ages, but there doesn't seem to be anywhere that describes a grade in terms of the age of the pupils in each grade — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.14.38.58 (talk) 05:15, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
 * You may find this template useful grade: for example = > --ClemRutter (talk) 09:51, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Types of Scheduling
I added a section titled Types of Scheduling because I felt that this information is important in understanding Secondary education in the United States. Within this section I included 4 subheadings. One titled traditional, one titled block, one titled alternate day, and one titled 4x4. Within these sections I have included accurate, and relevant information. I have included tables related to the subheadings. I have also included my references within my information. If any of my fellow Wikipedians disagree with my edits please feel free to reach out in an effort to provide the most accurate information possible. Wblai1 (talk) 03:15, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Great post- thanks.--ClemRutter (talk) 10:13, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:High school (North America) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 23:03, 20 December 2020 (UTC)