Talk:Security hacker

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Nlombardo97.

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Semi-protected edit request on 1 June 2015
Please add more background information to the history because of the widely misunderstanding of the term hacker. It originated as a genius, and the "hacker" described in this is from it's origination point actually a Cracker. http://hacks.mit.edu/ https://www.cs.utah.edu/~elb/folklore/afs-paper/node3.html https://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~bh/hacker.html https://www.stackoverflow.com The concept of hacking entered the computer culture at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in the 1960s. Popular opinion at MIT posited that there are two kinds of students, tools and hackers. A ``tool'' is someone who attends class regularly, is always to be found in the library when no class is meeting, and gets straight As. A ``hacker'' is the opposite: someone who never goes to class, who in fact sleeps all day, and who spends the night pursuing recreational activities rather than studying. There was thought to be no middle ground.

Originally a hacker had nothing to do with computers. But there are standards for success as a hacker, just as grades form a standard for success as a tool. The true hacker can't just sit around all night, a hacker must pursue some hobby with dedication and flair. It can be telephones, or railroads (model, real, or both), or science fiction fandom, or ham radio, or broadcast radio. It can be more than one of these. Or it can be computers. Since 1986, the word ``hacker'' is generally used among MIT students to refer not to computer hackers but to building hackers, people who explore roofs and tunnels where they're not supposed to be.

A ``computer hacker,'' then, is someone who lives and breathes computers, who knows all about computers, who can get a computer to do anything. Equally important, though, is the hacker's attitude. Computer programming must be a hobby, something done for fun, not out of a sense of duty or for the money. (It's okay to make money, but that can't be the reason for hacking.)

A hacker is an aesthete.

There are specialties within computer hacking. An algorithm hacker knows all about the best algorithm for any problem. A system hacker knows about designing and maintaining operating systems. And a ``password hacker'' knows how to find out someone else's password.

Someone who sets out to crack the security of a system for financial gain is not a hacker at all. It's not that a hacker can't be a thief, but a hacker can't be a professional thief. A hacker must be fundamentally an amateur, even though hackers can get paid for their expertise. A password hacker whose primary interest is in learning how the system works doesn't therefore necessarily refrain from stealing information or services, but someone whose primary interest is in stealing isn't a hacker, but a cracker.

KatsuoRyuu (talk) 04:26, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. (talk to) TheOtherGaelan('s contributions) 18:22, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Help me to be a phone hacker and Mpesa Willproder (talk) 15:06, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Send me the application used in hacking process Willproder (talk) 15:08, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 September 2015
there is a film named "BLACKHAT" released in 2015 is also related to hacker so it would be nice to add to the list

Lunarantic (talk) 11:00, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ - thanks for the suggestion - Arjayay (talk) 11:29, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 December 2015
HARSH ANAND (Shanu) (talk) 11:29, 21 December 2015 (UTC) the art of hacking so can called in criminal word as cracking, it has become as a diverse arena for those who want to get into others devices .This art has the most severe affects on mankind as it has resulted in many many acts which are even complicated to that much extent that they can not be solved easily .Nowadays this field of work is attracting most of the youths in global world, according to a research done by University of California about 75% 0f american children who have reliant access to internet take it as their hobby. More importantly, you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 11:30, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not requested a specific change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".

Semi-protected edit request on 25 July 2016
Given that the "Hacking and the media" section contains a list of multimedia works, I propose the removal of the WP:PROSE section tag. Embedded list format seems most appropriate for the topic; the tag is clearly antiquated (August 2008).

Seba5tien (talk/contribs) 12:11, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) 01:30, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 2 August 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: the following moves were made:
 * Hacker (computer security) → Security hacker
 * Hacker →
 * Hacker (expert) → . -- Tavix ( talk ) 22:57, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

– In the course of the last year, Hacker (subculture) was renamed to Hacker culture, and Hacker (hobbyist) was merged into that article – two good choices IMO, as the topics never constituted separate meanings of "hacker". Apart from a few names (see Hacker) and maybe Hacking (rugby) and Roof and tunnel hacking, we now only have two contenders for WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Of these, obviously, the more general article on Hackers includes and goes beyond computer security hacking, so Hacker (computer security) is a subtopic rather than an alternative meaning of "hacker". Therefore it should be renamed per WP:NATURALDIS rather than being qualified by a bracketed disambiguator. The current proposal also takes into account that the broader notion of what a hacker is, includes all kinds of hacking and hacker culture. Pirate Party people, for example, may have nothing to do with actual hacking, while still being hackers by cultural affiliation. I therefore chose Hacker (the person) for the broader sense, and Computer security hacking (the activity) for the actual activity or profession. These renames should help us handle the different articles' scopes and are both reproducible and a further improvement in regard to the associated category schemes. -- PanchoS (talk) 06:12, 2 August 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. — JFG talk 14:49, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Hacker (computer security) → Computer security hacking
 * Hacker (expert) → Hacker


 * Oppose – Hacker is ambiguous enough that it needs to go to a disambig page. The rest of this is just trying to change that?  Dicklyon (talk) 05:53, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Within computing, it's broad, not ambiguous, representing a continuous spectrum between more recreational and more professional hackers. The spectrum includes people primarily concerned with computer security, privacy and surveillance, net neutrality or freedom of speech, as well as people involved in (particularly open-source) programming and computer engineering. While we may identify subtopics, we may not split apart particular aspects as if they constituted a completely different meaning of "hacker" which they don't. The only other meanings of hacker such as Hacking (rugby) and Roof and tunnel hacking aren't negligible but not relevant enough to contest WP:PRIMARYTOPIC status for computer hacking. --PanchoS (talk) 10:25, 5 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Support Hacker (expert) → Hacker – Hacker as any kind of skilled computer expert is the primary meaning. Security hackers are a sub-type. However I would suggest to rename Hacker (computer security) → Security hacker, as used in the target article itself, e.g. section Notable security hackers. — JFG talk 08:30, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Support the proposed move by JFG per WP:NATURAL and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Ḉɱ̍ 2nd anniv.   17:56, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Support the proposed move but not the naming convention. I recommend you also look merging in black, white, and grey hat hacker articles, which are really short, and stick with that terminology. An expert hacker could be a good or bad guy. Callsignpink (talk) 23:03, 15 August 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Strong disagreement on content
"In computing, a hacker is any highly skilled computer expert capable of breaking into computer systems and networks using bugs and exploits."

I will ignore the fact that the general page "hacker" start by "In computing"... (Instead of giving a list of popular domains)

About "computer hackers", there are two classic mistakes : 1 - mix computer hackers and criminals 2 - mix computer hackers and security experts The first sentence of the article contains both misconceptions... "breaking" ? "using bugs and exploits" ?

Computer hackers are not all network security expert looking for bugs... This is just wrong and strongly misleading. Furthermore, you can have hackers working in many fields, security and networking are only 2 of them.

Why not use the IETF RFC 1983 as the definition, I quote : hacker : A person who delights in having an intimate understanding of the internal workings of a system, computers and computer networks in particular. The term is often misused in a pejorative context, where "cracker" would be the correct term. See also: cracker.

Semi-protected edit request on 30 November 2017
2405:205:A0A9:A830:DC62:E0B5:B335:8B8E (talk) 06:26, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
 * - There was no actual request to answer. Please type out your request, or post your test edits in the Sandbox. Sincerely, Taketa (talk) 06:58, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 3 August 2018
I noticed a tiny typo on this page. Under the notable hackers header, in the text about Jude Milhon:

change creaters to creators.

You can easily find the typo by using the find function on your browser, search for "creaters".

Thank you. Ferzeg3420 (talk) 21:46, 3 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done Gulumeemee (talk) 00:05, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

ip
93.169.29.252 (talk) 00:04, 19 February 2020 (UTC)ping
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. RudolfRed (talk) 01:03, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Who coined the term 'computer cracker': Eric S. Raymond or Richard Stallman?
In the article, under the subheading 'Cracker' it is stated that 'Eric S. Raymond, author of The New Hacker's Dictionary, advocates that members of the computer underground should be called crackers.' Some points to note here are that there are no citations for this statement, The New Hacker's Dictionary is merely a publication of the 'Jargon File' (as can be seen from this link redirecting to that page), and that Richard Stallman notes he coined the phrase 'in the early 80s':

http://stallman.org/articles/on-hacking.html

I think this should be carefully looked into to determine what should actually be written in the article. Thanks. DesertPipeline (talk) 01:11, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

The term cracker was a common word programmers and other computer experts used for people who illegaly modified computer programs (mostly games) in the 1980s. At least in Europe. No traceable Username (talk) 11:55, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

I knew of the term since 1981, but i do not know whether Richard Stallman created it or not. No traceable Username (talk) 12:14, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Possible vandalism?
I noticed under the Attacks section, specifically the second paragraph under Social Engineering someone has written "Hackers who use this technique must have cool personalities..."

I am assuming this is not really appropriate for a Wikipedia article?

SynthGuard (talk) 23:23, 9 July 2021 (UTC)


 * I fixed that. A few months late, but done. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:17, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 December 2021
2409:4042:E97:C5CC:0:0:9F8B:190C (talk) 14:48, 13 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.Signed, I Am Chaos (talk) 04:10, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

Missing words
It's missing a few words at hier: "Password guessing. Brute-force attacks are used to quickly check all short password variations. For longer passwords, other methods such as the dictionary attack are used, because of the amount of time a brute-force search takes     ". This page is in semi-protection and i have no account, so i can't insert the words myself. Can you, please, do it for me. Thank you. 2A01:CB04:84:F000:D040:5F87:6798:A9ED (talk) 06:52, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Code breakers vs. Security hackers?
I'm not seeing code breakers discussed as a type of security hacker, or even the other way around. Anyone have a suggestion on this? - Dennis Francis Blewett 75.149.204.97 (talk) 20:12, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

"Hacker (computer security" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hacker_(computer_security&redirect=no Hacker (computer security] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. Utopes (talk / cont) 18:19, 3 March 2024 (UTC)