Talk:See, amid the Winter's Snow

Requested move 8 October 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. The consensus is that MOS:CT says we should decapitalise "amid" here. No consensus on what to do with the comma, no prejudice against a future discussion for that issue. Jenks24 (talk) 07:53, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

See, Amid the Winter's Snow → See, amid the Winter's Snow – 'amid' is a four-letter preposition and should be lowercased per MOS:CT and then WP:NCCAPS. Of course, uppercasing first word of subtitles after main title is common, but I don't think it's the case. In fact, "See" is an interjection, not the main title as if it were See: Amid the Winter's Snow. The whole title is also the first line of the hymn. Arguably, lowercasing the whole title is possible, and the first line is probably known, but it is the given title, and there are alternative separate titles, so lowercasing the whole title is unlikely. Back to original proposal, "amid" should be lowercased besides "the". George Ho (talk) 01:46, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Support decapitalization per nomination. I suggest removing the comma as well, following common usage at reliable sources e.g. Oremus, Hymnary and BBC. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:28, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
 * But then if you remove the comma, it also removes the suggestion that the title needs to be decapped based on 's statement above as then See is no longer an interjection. Based on the sources you provide here, I would support the removal of the comma instead of removing the capitals.  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 13:54, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
 * My mission is to lowercase "amid". The lyrics tell a different story: commas are used after "See" in every first line of verse or stanza. Then again, title is somewhat different from lyrics. Regardless of commonality, the title must be accurate. Otherwise, an inaccurate title can't be used, even when commonly used. --Gh87 in the public computer (talk) 22:59, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
 * C (homonym of "See") and Fayenatic, I would go for alternatively "See Amid the Winter's Snow" or "See amid the Winter's Snow", but that would make "See" the verb. The lyrics treat "See" as an interjection. I am torn, so I'll use original proposal by default until there's an agreement. George Ho (talk) 02:36, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I would prefer using "See Amid the Winter's Snow" if we have to move it, I don't like the idea of lowercasing "amid" because it does not have good literary aesthetics to me.  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 08:15, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I disagree, C; it was already done to A Winter amid the Ice. Grammatically, if it's not a preposition, or if it is a preposition but either first or last word, uppercasing it is okay (e.g. Chaldean Diocese of Amid, Abbas-Ali Amid Zanjani). George Ho (talk) 09:01, 9 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Support for lowercasing amid. I see two basic options: See, amid the Winter's Snow could be regarded as a regular title (and then amid would need to be lowercased according to MOS:CT because it is a four-letter preposition), or it could be argued that the following section of MOS:CT applies: "If a work is known by its first line of text and lacks a separate title, then the first line, rendered in sentence case, should be used as its title. An example of this would be Remember not, Lord, our offences". In either case, I would support omitting the comma if this is backed by relevant sources. But in all possible variants, amid should be lowercased. Darkday (talk) 15:01, 11 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 27 November 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn. The original source has the original title. (non-admin closure) George Ho (talk) 17:14, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

See, amid the Winter's Snow → See, amid the winter's snow – One year ago, I was more concerned about the preposition, "amid", which is now lowercased. This time, I'm more concerned about the casing of the whole title itself, though the song itself is not big to fuss about. MOS:CT says to lowercase use sentence case on titles that are also the first lines of any work, like a hymn or a song. However, sometimes I worry about interpreting the rule particularly due to the comma addition. Nevertheless, Talk:Flow, my tears could be used as a precedent to this. With MOS:CT's rule on titles similar to the first line and that preceding discussion, we can lowercase use sentence case on the whole title and retain the comma. George Ho (talk) 00:13, 27 November 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.