Talk:Seisyllwg

Nonexistent
Lloyd is normally great, but see this discussion of his sources (including using the Mab. & Iolo's forgeries) for why this "hard to establish" kingdom quite probably didn't exist and was a later fabrication to justify Cadell and Hywel's extension of their Ceredigion holdings into Ystrad Tywi.

Inter alia, Seisyll's own kid is recorded calling himself king of Ceredigion, not "Seisyllwg". — Llywelyn II   22:59, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * As I said at Talk:Hywel Dda, that source is a self-published source and isn't usable here. As this article says, citing the Celtic Encylopedia, the name "Seisyllwg" doesn't appear in early sources and there's no reason to think Seisyll formed it. However, it's pretty clear that by Hywel's time the kings held Ystrad Tywi as well as Ceredigion. The modern literature continues to use "Seisyllwg" as a conventional term for the territory comprising both Ceregion and Ystrad Tywi; as such we shouldn't avoid it, though we can certainly explain it, as is done here.--Cúchullain t/ c 23:29, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok. =) — Llywelyn II   18:51, 20 February 2013 (UTC)