Talk:Self-driving car/Archive 4

Requested move 28 August 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Moved to Self-driving car per the consensus below, along with the category and articles mentioned by Paintspot Infez. No such user (talk) 11:50, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Autonomous car → Automated car – For reasons stated by Ewaladel in the above 2 sections. The move has been attempted by that user, but has since been reverted for being controversial. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 14:21, 28 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Move to Self-driving car per WP:COMMONNAME. "Self-driving car" has 10.5 million search results on Google, "autonomous car" only has 1.2 million, and "automated car" only has 300,000. Rreagan007 (talk) 20:32, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose For same reason as above. I think the word "automated" sounds wrong. It makes the car sound like an automatic washing machine, where you set a cycle and it follows a set of preset instructions, but with no intelligent data-gathering or reactions to external inputs. On the other hand, I would most definitely support a move to "Self-driving car"... Rodney Baggins (talk) 05:05, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Move to Self-driving car per WP:COMMONNAME. -- Netoholic @ 09:25, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Move to Self-driving car per above. Lepricavark (talk) 15:07, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Move to Self-driving car per WP:COMMONNAME.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 10:14, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Move to Self-driving car per above per WP:COMMONNAME. Also move other pages with "Autonomous car" in the title:
 * History of autonomous cars → History of self-driving cars
 * Autonomous car liability → Self-driving car liability
 * List of autonomous car fatalities → List of self-driving car fatalities
 * Category:Autonomous cars → Category:Self-driving cars
 * Template:Autonomous cars and enabling technologies → Template:Autonomous cars and enabling technologies
 * All the above should be moved as well. Paintspot Infez (talk) 15:28, 30 August 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Self-driving car vs autonomous car
I am not sure that self-driving car is the exact same thing than an autonomous car.

choose to drive themselves or let the vehicle drive"
 * A self-driving car implies that nobody is driving the car.
 * When "Some autonomous driving functions may have physical controls so that the vehicle user can activate, deactivate, override the function and hence

For instance, EuroNCAP defines autonomous in "Autonomous Emergency Braking" as: "the system acts independently of the driver to avoid or mitigate the accident." which implies the autonomous system is not the driver

Wikipedia should be clearer on such point. One way to do it can be to provide a terminology section which clarifies each of both words, its usage and its implication. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.199.96.27 (talk) 16:44, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

What is SAE?
SAE is short for "Society of Automation Engineers". This should definitely be somewhere in the article, but I'm not sure where... MaigoAkisame (talk) 02:10, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

New article - "Self-driving cars in fiction"
I suggest splitting off the fiction section, while retaining only those mentions which have a secondary source in this article. Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 03:23, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 22 July 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Moved. As a matter of procedure, this is a request to revert a recent undiscussed move that was contrary to the outcome of a recent RM, so its approval would be the default outcome anyway. It could have just been submitted as a "technical request". On top of that, unanimous strong support has been expressed. With both of those considerations arguing in favor of the move, there is no reason to need a longer period of discussion before taking action. —BarrelProof (talk) 20:26, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Autonomous car → Self-driving car – "Self-driving car" was the result of the last requested move discussion above. But 2 months ago, Störm had moved the page back without discussion or explanation, so there is now some inconsistency with the other 3 articles, category, and template that Paintspot had mentioned. To avoid move-warring, we should discuss the move again, and perhaps Template:Autonomous cars and enabling technologies should then be moved to Template:Self-driving cars and enabling technologies. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 18:06, 22 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Support / Revert undiscussed move. There was a consensus to move the page to "Self-driving car". (Also, if this move is reverted, that Template:Autonomous cars and enabling technologies should also be moved.) Paintspot Infez (talk) 20:09, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Pinging participants of previous discussion: . Paintspot Infez (talk) 20:09, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per earlier move discussion. --Comment by Selfie City ( talk about my  contributions ) 20:41, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per earlier discussion and WP:GREENLOCK the article permanently, since this is obviously going to be a problem.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 23:31, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Support and speedy close. This article should have never been moved without discussion and a new consensus. Rreagan007 (talk) 00:58, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Strong support. Why did User:Störm move the page back to Autonomous car two months ago when it had already been agreed to change the name to Self-driving car in the previous RM? If, as I suspect, it was because the RM was not specifically seeking to move the page to Self-driving car – but rather to move it to Automated car – then Störm may have noticed that, strictly speaking, the RM process had not been followed correctly? I'm all for pedantry but this thing needs to be put to bed already. Rodney Baggins (talk) 18:41, 23 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

More info to autonomous trucks and vans.
There wasn't much info other companies that either use or have autonomous vehicles specifically trucks and vans. Added info to section. Introduced Waymo, a truck/van autonomous vehicle that is used for taxi like transportation for people. Tpaz19 (talk) 01:45, 3 February 2020 (UTC)tpaz19

Self driving car definition
Self driving car definition is incomplete. It could be completed with this NTSB view:

According to the NTSB, "If you own a car with partial automation, you do not own a self-driving car. So don’t pretend that you do"

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/feb/25/tesla-driver-autopilot-crash — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.136.155.189 (talk) 01:40, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Dubious
The units in the marked chart are not consistent. Newer units tend to be in thousands, but it's not consistent "(000)" just for '18 isn't accurate, or clear! Let's reach and apply a consensus on appropriate units. --50.201.195.170 (talk) 08:19, 12 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Fixed --Ita140188 (talk) 02:44, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Do not have "pros" and "cons" sections
We should not have this kind of structure in Wikipedia articles. There should just be an "Impact" section. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 14:49, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
 * agreed, I removed the "advantages" and "disadvantages" and tried to group effects together. Elysia (AR) (talk) 17:48, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Agree!--Geysirhead (talk) 10:26, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

High-definition map
The article high-definition map was created recently. This might be a good term to work into this article and other relevant articles, such as Hybrid navigation. – Novem Linguae (talk) 11:14, 20 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Should it even have its own article right now? It may make more sense to move all of content here and set up a redirect. QRep2020 (talk) 16:26, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
 * It appears to meet our notability guidelines. There's plenty of WP:SIGCOV in reliable, secondary sources. – Novem Linguae (talk) 10:29, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I did not mean to imply the content was not Wikipedia-worthy - it certainly is. I am instead wondering if it would be better served as part of Self-driving car until more content about it specifically is written for Wikipedia. QRep2020 (talk) 16:54, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Is "Anticipated launch of cars" section for already released car?
I have deleted and moved Honda Legend Hybrid EX to history section. But other editor filled again. How to deal wit it? "Anticipated" includes "realized"? --Yasuo Miyakawa (talk) 15:34, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ Sorry for the confusion. I renamed the section back to "Anticipated launch of cars" (I had renamed it earlier to "Launch and anticipated launch"). I re-deleted the Honda reference you mentioned, did some additional clean up on the Anticipated section, and moved some other items to History section. ReferenceMan (talk) 16:16, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Instead of 3.2 "Homogenization and decoupling"
It seems to be difficult to elaborate more with reasonable citation sources in current context. How about changing this sub-clause title to "International standardization" and explain about documents such as undertakings in UNECE WP.29 GRVA? Yasuo Miyakawa (talk) 00:47, 2 November 2021 (UTC)Yasuo Miyakawa (talk) 00:29, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Working Party on Automated/Autonomous and Connected Vehicles (GRVA)
 * Otherwise, how about deleting this sub-clause? Yasuo Miyakawa (talk) 03:19, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Article is certainly too long
Impact of self-driving cars should be split off--Geysirhead (talk) 21:15, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Done--Geysirhead (talk) 21:43, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

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No mentioning of the Tesla system. It has Full Self Driving in beta.
No mentioning of Tesla. It has a non fenced full self driving system in beta. Henk van Hoek (talk) 05:38, 8 May 2022 (UTC)


 * It's a very weird article indeed. The article repeatedly emphasises that Autopilot is Level 2, i.e. not actually a self-driving technology. This is correct. It is a set of now-commonplace features (adaptive cruise control and lane centring) which are standard on the majority of new cars sold. But the article still deems it relevant to have a large section on incidents involving Autopilot.
 * Perhaps the authors of this wiki should decide whether Autopilot is self-driving or not—and be consistent about it. Simon Wright (talk) 08:43, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Then why are people not removing it? Tesla autopilot is clearly not a self-driving car. This seems more like a smear piece that also strangely has alot of guesswork in it. Warbayx (talk) 21:30, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
 * If I understand the terminology and communication offense defined / being defined in the bill to regulate the use of automated vehicles on roads and in other public places; and to make other provision in relation to vehicle automation,
 * when you say "Tesla autopilot is clearly not a self-driving car" while topic is "Tesla system (...) has Full Self Driving in beta", I wonder if this may raise a ?

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Splitting something (Regulation?)
It was suggested to split and start a new article titled "Regulation of self-driving cars". Still, I cannot set appropriate scope, although I can imagine that legislations in developed countries will become active than ever and the corresponding section will become longer. At this time, in my feeling, it would be better to keep as it is until UK and France have related acts. Loughry, there had been a main stream of developing UNECE WP.29 GRVA regulations for Level 3 until 2020, and these countries are now in phase of legislation to correspond to them. As other thing to be considered, Testing became to have compliance viewpoint based on the GRVA regulations. From viewpoint of Japan, even after reaching to Level 4 legislation, Liability topics are difficult to deal with independently, involving insurance topics. Personally, I want to read the US Federal level status at the main article. Let's discuss steadily on splitting. Dr.Yasuo Miyakawa (talk)
 * Second keeping as it is for now. QRep2020 (talk) 03:10, 5 May 2022 (UTC)


 * I would still like to hear more voices about spitting up the regulation. The article is too long and regulation itself is long enough to be an independent article. Geysirhead (talk) 12:05, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Dear @QRep2020, maybe, your opinion changed? Geysirhead (talk) 16:43, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I am warmer to the idea, yes. As long as some sort of summary of the regulations for most of the countries mentioned remains. QRep2020 (talk) 21:01, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

It's an increasingly important issue and already today a very notable topic which is probably of interest to many readers who want to know more about self-driving cars, and the current article is very long, which is why I support splitting this aspect up into a new article.-- Maxeto0910 (talk) 02:25, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

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Reorganization tag
The headers in this article have changed since you placed the Cleanup reorganize tag. Has that solved the problems you were seeing? If not, could you provide a little guidance on what you would like to see cleaned up? I might tackle it if I have a moment. Thanks! -- Beland (talk) 05:27, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for noticing. I placed it in 2018, but someone else seems to have done so in March of this year. Perhaps check with them.
 * I did it at "09:11, 28 March 2022‎" when I checked and updated "as of" in the lead text. And, I had not been involved in this page in 2018. I will consider your opinion. Dr. Yasuo Miyakawa (talk) 08:55, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I see the tag is still there; could you describe what organizational problems you would like to see fixed? -- Beland (talk) 19:50, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * So far, I've dealt with this page like a patchwork. The last reorganization was about "Applications", which I am happy with. I would like to leave the decision of tag removal to others.
 * I will continue to make some improvements.
 * It is difficult to write about the "Challenges" at present when Japan is challenging Level 4. It seems to me that they should be segmented according to the level they are challenging.
 * In fact, the problems being challenged include, in addition to the self-driving cars themselves, issues such as the separation of traffic lanes in urban areas, special lane coatings, and issues similar to Bus rapid transit (BRT) in rural areas. It does not fall within the scope of descriptions up to Level 3. Dr. Yasuo Miyakawa (talk) 06:41, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * For the time being, I tried sub-section of "5.5 Level 4 infrastructure" in "5 Challenges" and am satisfied, although citing materials are few, now. Dr. Yasuo Miyakawa (talk) 12:21, 5 April 2023 (UTC)