Talk:Semi-formal wear/Archive 1

2006
yo According to other pages, such as Dress code (Western), Semi-formal is Black tie. This is in direct contradiction to what's written here. Help, someone! TimNelson 07:33, 25 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, I fixed it myself. If anyone is particularly attached to the old content, it needs to go into Informal attire, because that's what it is.   TimNelson 07:33, 25 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Still in dispute Toddst1 (talk) 17:39, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * This page is a confusing mess, and 'semi-formal' is definitely not 'black tie', as least as it's ever been explained to me in the United States -- or as described by fashion writers like Cynthia Nellis of About.com (see http://fashion.about.com/cs/glossary/a/partydefinition.htm ). In particular, 'black tie' essentially does mean 'tuxedo' for men, but semi-formal means something like 'suit or tux' (and might even allow for non-suit jacket+slacks). To the extent the Dress code (Western) page says differently, it's misleading, too. Gojomo 06:46, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * About.com is not WP:Reliable. I agree; this page is a messToddst1 (talk) 17:39, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Cleared up in mid-2008. —Kan8eDie (talk) 08:55, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Make this a proper disambiguation page?
It seems like this page really just points people to other articles which have way more information on them. Does it make sense to turn it into a disambiguation page instead? --Siobhan Hansa 22:35, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That is ridiculous. Expand the article. Toddst1 (talk) 11:13, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Seems to me the dispute has more to do with the traditional definition versus the practical definition in the US. I think traditionally there were multiple changes of clothes throughout the day for day long events, but the practical definition in the US is that semi-formal means a coat and tie of some sort. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.252.54.132 (talk • contribs) 16:13, 5 June 2008
 * This is not a US encyclopedia, rather an English one. Toddst1 (talk) 11:13, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Credibility
The two sources that have been tagged with have been tagged because while they may have been published, I believe they fail WP:Reliable. Let's be real, the food-services team at a small university can hardly be called an authoritative source on ettiquette. About.com is about as unreliable as they get. They often repost Wikipedia articles. Toddst1 (talk) 11:11, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

2008 Anon comment
This page is just totally, totally wrong in my country. It does not mean black tie (& tux) and evening gown. That is formal. Semi-formal means not formal, so a suit or coat and probably no tie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.238.50.150 (talk) 07:30, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This is the 'correct' and traditional definition used by tailors and style experts. Unless you have some sources to back up your definition, then we will have to differ on this one. If you say what your country is and find a source, perhaps we could add a note to that effect, but I seriously doubt that black tie is 'formal' anywhere in the world. —Kan8eDie (talk) 08:55, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

This page appears to be incorrect
I understand that "semi-formal" has a traditional meaning, but in western societies, "semi-formal" now basically means a suit or a sportcoat / dress pant combination of some kind, not a tuxedo. In modern times, people use the term "black tie" to suggest that a tuxedo needs to be worn.

I'd like to update this page, but I'm sure it would be controversial

- Societyalum
 * That's why we require Wp:RS. What you've presented is WP:OR. Toddst1 (talk) 17:18, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Speak for yourself. How West is West? I don't think any of my friends would associate 'semi-formal' with a sports jacket.— Kan8eDie (talk) 22:58, 13 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, the Emily Post Institute seems to agree with the original poster; a dark business suit is considered semiformal attire. At the very least, enough discrepancy between "official" and "everyday" definitions of semi-formal attire exists that it should at least be mentioned in the article. (Please pardon my poor Wiki formatting skills with the above link.) Alika (talk) 16:55, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Read my section Formal attire. We should explain (and link to) some of that stuff here.— Kan8eDie (talk) 18:04, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to add my own WP:OR: semi-formal does NOT mean tuxedo. That is formal attire as is stated in the formal attire article. Semi-formal is a business suit. 128.164.135.222 (talk) 00:11, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Wise geek has a much more practical article on this http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-semi-formal-attire.htm. Basically, I guess it's telling me to wear my 1 wedding/memorial service suit :) One comment from this site which seem to sum it up by user blacktieman "Originally, of course, "semi-formal" referred to the tuxedo to differentiate it from "formal," being white tie. (In the daytime, "semi-formal" referred to the stroller jacket to distinguish it from the formal morning coat. Morning coats are rare nowadays, and strollers nearly extinct.) A bride in the 1930s and a teenager today might write "semi-formal," the latter expecting jeans and a button-down shirt and the former expecting a tuxedo with a stiff-fronted shirt." I guess I fall more in line with the teen POV but I live in the Seattle area. Anyway, I think it would be usefull to add something similar to this page because most people who hit this are looking for the practical advice rather than the academic answer.
 * It would be good to mention something about it, but Wikipedia is not an advice site for teenagers.92.254.73.152 (talk) 08:35, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

The picture of the group in formal dress called "Preprom" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Preprom.jpg) is not a picture of semi-formal dress: bow-ties, elbow-length gloves, and floor-length hem-lines are generally considered formal. That should be replaced with an actual picture of semi-formal dress. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jll294 (talk • contribs) 02:53, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Confusion over Flusser p. 299
There seems to be some confusion over the citation of Flusser, p. 299. To alleviate this, I am posting the passage in its entirety here:

I hope this helps clear things up. Toddst1 (talk) 15:53, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for shifting the ref. I was the one who added it ororiginally when I wrote the article. As you can expect from the recent abuse of terminology, I had to reference that statement early on to protect the definition of the article's title from several 'corrections'.— Kan8eDie (talk) 16:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Who wore Tuxedo in the U S first?
This article says the suit designed by the Prince of Wales was first worn in the US at the Tuxedo Park Club by James Potter while the entry for 'Tuxedo Park, NY' says it was worn there first by Griswald Lorillard. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cwsampson (talk • contribs) 07:49, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Colloquial usage
I cleaned up some of the references and added a part to modern usage that explains some of the confusion that occurs with modern usage. Joezasada (talk) 23:37, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Black tie guide as a reliable source
The website "black tie guide" http://www.blacktieguide.com is published by some guy named Peter Marshall. In what way is this self-published source deemed reliable? The information presented is in conflict with the definition of the term and should be removed for lack of a reliable source. Toddst1 (talk) 19:44, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Semi-formal only evening wear?
Since when and says who? Exceptional statements like that require exceptional sources. Please provide. Toddst1 (talk) 3 January 2012‎ (UTC)
 * Exactly, specially in the background section is all about evening, not morning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Palacesblowlittle (talk • contribs) 15:42, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

WP:CITEVAR
Why is there a desire to change the citation style on this page? Toddst1 (talk) 16:33, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 4 June 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: MOVED (non-admin closure) Galobtter (pingó mió) 09:31, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Semi-formal → Semi-formal attire – Per WP:PRECISION (to narrow down the scope rather than dealing with a general adjective pertaining more suitably to Wiktionary) as well as, most imortantly, per WP:CONSISTENCY with informal attire. Chicbyaccident (talk) 00:11, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. The adjective "semi-formal" is used in other contexts besides clothing dress codes alone, so the title needs to be more precise. Bearcat (talk) 19:44, 4 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Support Rreagan007 (talk) 21:02, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Support per Bearcat. Toddst1 (talk) 21:51, 5 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 19 August 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure) The Duke of Nonsense What is necessary for thee? 14:56, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Semi-formal attire → Semi-formal wear – WP:CONSISTENCY with Formal wear (arguable the most "main article"), as well as Casual wear. Chicbyaccident (talk) 22:45, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Support. Both for WP:CONSISTENCY and as WP:COMMONNAME. Why use a rare word like 'attire'? Narky Blert (talk) 11:42, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Note. See also Talk:Informal attire. Narky Blert (talk) 16:45, 24 August 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.