Talk:Sentinel Waggon Works

Start on Clean Up
I have made a start on the clean-up of this page. I have added sections as a prompt to myself (and other contributers) for future editions, at least for now, please don't removed them just because there is no test yet. AHEMSLTD 19:37, 2 November 2005 (UTC)


 * This article makes it look like Sentinel under Rolls Royce ownership only produced under 100 0-6-0 diesel shunting locomotives. In reality they produced hundreds upon hundreds of the things for a huge number of customers, and they weren't called "steelman" either! They also produced 0-4-0 chain and rod drive versions, as well as some 0-8-0s for the army. I know for a fact that the 0-4-0s were produced and arrived to customers BEFORE 1967 in some cases, so I don't know what this article is on about! The "Steelman" as I understand it was a Thomas hill modification of the Sentinel 0-4-0 chain drive design, and was made specifically for the army, I believe. It may also be worth mentioning that when the Rolls Royce Sentinel was released, it was the first shunter of it's kind, introducing new standards to the industry - many leading industrial shunter manufacturing companies had to literally copy the design style and philosophy just to keep up with the competition. Hunslet, English Electric, Andrew Barclay, and many others all made locomotives to a similar design. Also, it might be worth mentioning the fact that Rolls Royce incorporated their famous bonnet and radiator shape to the engine hoods and radiator of the shunting locomotives - this has long been part of the identity of Rolls Royce, and was intended to force the association with Rolls Royce, a name that everyone knows and trusts to produce reliable, quality machinery. The manufacturers wanted the customers to see the locomotive as they would see a Rolls Royce car; that is to say, it is in a league of it's own, above all others, and as such a worthwhile investment. Manchester Ship Canal and British Steel were two of the biggest customers of Rolls Royce Sentinels. --Badharlick 05:08, 16 May 2006 (UTC).

Rolls Royce and Diesel Locomotives at Shrewsbury
When Rolls Royce took over Sentinel, they stopped Steam work and started produced of an all new line of diesel locomotives which were sold under the name of 'Sentinel', in 1964 the name changed to 'Rolls Royce' but there was no real change to the locomotives produced. This continued to 1969.

Question - Should the diesel locomotive production be covered on this page (there is nothing on the Rolls Royce pages) or should it be on its own page for example: -


 * Rolls Royce (Shrewsbury) Ltd

or


 * Sentinel / Rolls Royce locomotive production

I would welcome you comments. AHEMSLTD 19:46, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Thomas Hill (Rotherham) Limited
A big chunk about Thomas Hill, the successor to Sentinel. It may be too detailed (I'm happy to edit it down if anybody has a firm view) and, to repeat the question above, should it be here?

As always all comments gratefully welcome


 * Thomas Hill were a loco builder in their own right, so make a page for Thomas Hill (Rotherham) Ltd. I had intended to put a few notes up, but this looks good for starters. If anything, I would have divided it up with headings. For this (sentinel) page, just needs a note on connection with TH and link to TH page. AHEMSLTD 19:56, 11 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I have been wikifying the part moved to Thomas Hill (Rotherham) Ltd and some parts of it should be moved here. It needs a bit of thought though as in their later years the 2 companies were very closely related.--NHSavage 12:25, 13 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I've now tried to make the relationship clearer. It does not help that the Thomas Hill page is not always completely clear which company it is talking about (no doubt made more confusing by the v close relationship).--NHSavage 14:27, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

HMS Sultan's Super Sentinel steam lorry
Just found this preserved example, if you're interested. Sounds like one of the last chain-drive examples built. Not sure it qualifies as an external link, but it might be of interest. Site includes some statistics about the vehicle/engine, original purchase price (£692 in 1929!), conversion to electric lighting/pneumatic tyres, etc.

Interestingly, this wagon is still (2014) used by the Navy for training nuclear plant maintenance engineers! (See NTET 60th Anniversary Road Run brochure).


 * HMS Sultan's Super Sentinel

(Added by me - 07 Feb 2007 -- EdJogg 12:57, 11 April 2007 (UTC))

1929 Pathe News Reel showing delivery of railcar
Interesting (silent) archive footage including two steam road locomotives hauling an LNER railmotor (specifically: Sentinel-Cammell steam railcar to diagram 97, no. 2198, built Oct 1929 (withdrawn Oct 1944) named "Times")
 * You Tube: "Seen On The Road (1929)"

EdJogg (talk) 23:48, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Closure
From the use of the past tense in the opening paragraph, I assume that the works is no longer in operation. Can something be added on when it closed down, and what happened to the site subsequently? The last date mentioned in the article is 1981. Rojomoke 12:20, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Some errors for your attention
1)  While some of the narrow-gauge Locomotives used road vehicle (waggon) size boilers, only a few of the early standard-gauge ones did, and even these had thicker boiler materials than waggon ones - weight being an issue here.

2)  Waggon boilers were 2' - 8-1/2" diameter and  3' - 10-1/4" over bolting faces for the 'Standard' Sentinel (up to 1923), most 'Super-Sentinel (1923 - 1932), the 'Light' DG waggons on pneumatics 1931 - 1937, the 'Lightweight Super (1932 - 1933), and the pre-war 'S' type shaft drive waggons.

Post war S6 waggons as supplied to the Argentine 1950/51 had the same diameter but were 4' - 2" over the bolting faces.

Some 'Super-Sentinel' waggons and DG waggone 1927 - 1931 still had the same diameter but belled out at the bottom to give a larger grate area, and were 4' - 4-3/32" over bolting faces.

Locos and Railcars (generally, apart from 200 hp ones, and 'specials' ) had a diameter of 3' - 1" and were 5' - 0-13/16 over bolting surfaces.

3)  While it could be said that Loco and early Railcar 2-cylinder engines were based on the road vehicles ones, there were significant differences. No differential built into the crankshaft, different valve camshafts, and (apart from very early ones) a different arrangement of valves and valve chests. As for the later shaft-drive (gear-drive) 6- cylinder engined Railcars, these engines bore no resemblance to the 4-cylinder engine as used in the model 'S' steam road waggon.

Regards, Richard Nixon, 18 Aylesbury Road, Aston Clinton, Bucks, HP22 5AG —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.173.248 (talk) 23:07, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Alley & MacLellan Ltd
There is now an article about the parent company. I moved a small amount of content from the section about this company to that article, and added a hatnote. This company had other factories and subsidiaries besides the Waggon Works. I made a section there for the Waggon Works and a link to this article; perhaps someone more expert than I am would like to add a short summary there.&mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 15:08, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

One of these days I intend to create a Worcester, Sentinel Valve Works page, partly because my late grandfather worked there having moved to Worcester from Glasgow on opening. However it is difficult to find enough source material despite me living within 40 miles of Worcester and having access to the Worcestershire County archives. If anyone knows anything please let me know. Ianmurray5 (talk) 15:17, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Sentinel Guard Logo
'Sentinel Guard' is my name and has no factual basis but the file required a different name from 'Sentinel.jpg'. If anyone finds the correct name please change. The UK trade mark registration dates from 14th Jan 1949, it has expired, the last owner being Wabtec Rail Ltd, Doncaster, UK and the only place I have seen it is in conjunction with road / rail vehicles and the Shrewsbury waggon works so for these two reasons I have added the image to this page rather than the main Glasgow page. Ianmurray5 (talk) 15:13, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

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