Talk:Seoul Foreign School

Comment
Hello, I believe the following sections must be added to the main article. The current roll-back edition features too positive a review of the school. Prospective parents should be able to review religious/ethnic demographics as well as the market share SFS currently holds. A break down of the evacuation plan is mandatory to those who seek safety for their children while residing in Korea. My arguments, though logical will breach the neutrality code of wikipedia. So feel free to edit anything out but the bare truth.

Influences of Christianity
Seoul Foreign School, founded in 1912 by missionaries to Korea, has grown into a premier international college-preparatory school all the while holding to its Christian roots, philosophy, and ethos. In particular, it is committed to education within a caring Christian environment and consistent with the highest Christian values. The school provides programs designed to give an understanding of the Christian faith, both through a study of Bible and consideration of historical and contemporary understandings of Christianity. Through personal example and through certain extra-curricular activities, the school aims to encourage students to make the truths of the Christian faith a matter of personal commitment. Student Relations & Diversity There is a severe disparity in defining the role of Christianity within SFS. 40% of students claim they have no religious ties, while 30% are not actively practicing Christians. As the school pushed for a stronger Christian society, they risked alienating the religious minority. This had an adverse effect by hitting the diversity of the student body. Teachers are employed fundamentally on their qualifications and religious beliefs. As a result, some classes (including the sciences) are intertwined with Christian values. Muslims are a scarce minority below the 1% range of the student body. SFS claims tolerance towards these students and their beliefs, but as the majority of non-sport activities are Christian based; there is a severe disability in socializing potential. Even sports activities take place under the 'Crusader' banner - inherently referring to the religious violence conducted in the Middle Ages. Seoul Foreign School prides themselves on being a Christian school. Naturally, as a Christian school, the school holds very conservative views and influences and encourages the fellow students to do the same. Although there is nothing wrong with a school indulging religion or more specifically in this case, Christianity, it is still dangerous for religion to impose on the student's education. There are many complaints from present and former students that the school is unaccepting or unwilling to open up to students with different sexual orientations. The school principles and administrators do little about the discrimination that take place everyday in their school, as they ironically tell every visitor that their school is an 'accepting and welcoming environment.'

The Parent Teacher Association (PTA) recently voted to maintain the 'Crusader' mascot. Those students who speak out against the Christian establishment for stifling diversity are given the following response: "SFS is the 'most prestigious foreign school in Korea,' and administrators feel their school is perfect; they suggest that you are always free to transfer to another school. These are the [opinions of] select counselors and teachers." Unfortunately, SFS maintains a virtual monopoly of the expat education market; making school transfers an unfeasible alternative.

Market Share
SFS has a virtual monopoly on the expatriate market in Seoul. The Yongsan International School was initially built by the Korean government to provide expat families with a viable alternative. Since opening its doors in 2006, Yongsan International school has not proved attractive to many expat families: 60% of students at this school are Korean and the other 40% are both native and non-native English speakers. Finance SFS is a private non-profit organisation. They have no specific obligations to publish their financial data. SFS recently published a financial report for the year ended June 30, 2008 where total revenue was $33,930.43 and payroll was $18,840.55. "SFS, while it does strive to provide quality education, is extremely expensive. We do not always get the feeling that SFS provides good value for money. The fees charged are equivalent to that of a top English private school; such as Kings College or Latymer. The curriculum of the British Division of SFS is more comparable to that a very good state school in the UK rather than to that of a top private school in London. Children whose parent/s are pastors of various Christian denominations may receive tuition for free or at discounted price. Financial aid is available upon request (conditions apply).

Evacuation: Contingency Plan for War
South Korea is still technically at war with the DPRK. The School administration devised an contingency plan in case of war. Students are first assembled in the bus garage.

They are then to be taken by bus to Yongsan base where they will be airlifted to safety.

There are several serious security flaws with the current evacuation plan.


 * The Bus garage where students are assembled faces the city from the side of a mountain. This creates a definite hazard if aerial nuclear weapons are deployed.
 * The Bus garage is not bomb proof. It will not survive a direct hit
 * It is a logistical nightmare to evacuate students on a bus. The streets will be clogged with evacuees
 * The DPRK plan of 'first engagement' is to use an artillery barrage capable of reaching Seoul. Yongsan base and military outposts will be the primary targets. Sending children to a definite war zone is unadvisable.

It is important to note that schools in Korea have little or no evacuation plan due to a remote risk of an all-out engagement. Although SFS is the first of its kind to devise an elaborate contingency plan - it does not factor in realistic circumstances.

Notable Alumni
This article needs to be regularly reverted because apparently non-notable names are added to the list of notable alumni. If you are going to add a name to the list, please could you ensure that information is provided that shows that the alumnus is indeed notable. Thanks Twigletmac 15:42, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

well i have finally found references for Ien Chi. Michael Forrester's, Psychology of the Image and Jean Mitry's, The Aesthetics and Psychology of the Cinema both of which refer to Ien Chi at points in the book. The first book refers to him in page 47, "Short film director Ien Chi applied the usage of social psychology in his 2nd short film, 'Stonewall' which introduced another way of communicating cognitively with the audience as well as interactively." The Aesthetics and Psychology of the Cinema says, "Ien Chi often portrays various types of psychology in his films....Stride and Stonewall particularly assembled together concepts of inner strength and optimism which led the way to humanitarian drama films." I hope this reference is good enough. Ien Chi is one of my favorite directors partly because he is my second cousin but also because of the strength and message of his short films. But I'm sorry to say there not many websites and/or books with his name. Ien Chi graduated from Seoul Foreign School i believe in 1991.


 * He seems reasonably notable, but do you also have a reference for his being a SFS graduate? I don't mean to be nitpicky, but per WP:V we do need some form of reliable verification. -- Visviva 12:54, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, unfortunately the two books I put up do not say that he is a Seoul Foreign School graduate in them. But I know that he is for sure because I met him at our family reunion because he is my second cousin and I remember him telling me that he graduated from Seoul Foreign School. If you would really really really like me to find a source that says he is a Seoul Foreign School graduate then I will but would rather not because it would take some time. Otherwise, the 1991 Seoul Foreign School yearbook will have his name in it.

Hello I'd just like to say, someone keeps deleting Ien Chi from the notable alumni section. This action is not appropriate and i do have refrences to Ien Chi. Please stop deleting Ien Chi from the notable alumni section.


 * Unfortunately, unless you can provide references specifically linking him to Seoul Foreign School, that information does not belong here. Again, please see Verifiability.  -- Visviva 05:08, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


 * But there is verifiable information provided in the references section.

I'd like to point out, Eddie Shin from Seoul Foreign School is a singer and not an actor. The article of Eddie Shin the link leads to has no indication that he had anything to do with singing. These are two different Eddie Shins.

Why was Noor Mukadam removed as a notable alumni? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.241.61.11 (talk) 14:05, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Blatantly False Info
I would like to point out that Ien Chi is not an alumni (yet) here (taken from the Seoul Foreign High School 2005-2006 yearbook. He is a 10th grader (who does, however according to SFS students, produce short films). Also, David Lim is NOT a stuntman/martial artist. He is an 11th grader currently attending Seoul Foreign School. Jason 09:42, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * But define "truth." If this prediction turns out to be right, we're clairvoyant. If it doesn't, it's average Wikipedia vandalism.  It's a school site, too, and so the students and alumni are the only ones who we can plan on visiting it.
 * Just have a little fun, and you too can be as great as MagnaSepta 14:00, 12 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Refer to the official Wikipedia policy on notability. This takes precedence over what you call "clairvoyant". If you wish to be clairvoyant, Wikipedia is not the place for your unconstructive edits. Jason 16:12, 12 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Firstly. Clairvoyance obviously beats Wikipedia any day. Secondly. Who really cares, besides you? It's funny. Don't you get it? No, I see you don't. 'Cause if you did, you would be just like MagnaSepta 04:38, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I see that you are quite an interesting specimen. You may (or may not be Clara the Clairvoyant hopefully, you are not Esteban García). However, you shall be stopped by Jason, (a message?) 06:08, 15 February 2007 (UTC). Back to J-Pop.


 * It is not blatantly false information. Ien Chi is NOT a 9th grader at SFS. He is an alumni currently producing short films in California with Focus Features. Or maybe it is a ridiculous coincidence that they are both Ien Chi. May I ask where you got the information that he is a 9th grader at SFS from?


 * I would like to place the burden on the opposition of proving Ien Chi's notability. Given the fact that you are an anonymous IP (61.72.47.41) constantly editing the Wikipedia page for Seoul Foreign School, and the forementioned edits are continually reverted due to a lack of proof of notability, as user Twigletmac has warned you for as well, that you need to discover the source that determines Ien Chi as notable. Also, please refer to the |search that I performed to find any traces of this ever elusive Ien Chi. Needless to say, no sources were found. Maybe, if you truly can come up with that important source, you can truly be like MagnaSepta... sorry, I meant Jason, (a message?) 12:00, 17 February 2007 (UTC).


 * I'm confused because before I already provided sources regarding Ien Chi's notability but it seems to have been deleted. I'll just put it up again.


 * No, you are not confused. You seem to be deliberately adding unsourced information onto Wikipedia. In one of your sources (Jean Mitry, The Aesthetics and Psychology of the Cinema), using Google Books |here, there is no occurrence of the phrase "Ien Chi" anywhere within the book. Therefore, the source that you have stated is unacceptable as evidence of the notibility of Ien Chi.
 * I shall repeat myself... Maybe, if you truly can come up with that important source, you can truly be like MagnaSepta... sorry, I meant Jason, (a message?) 13:39, 18 February 2007 (UTC).


 * Sheesh people, can't we just have a little bit of fun? I mean come on, seriously. Why do the wikipedia people have to be so Beaurocratic? It's not like the notable alumni information is going to hurt anyone. And please don't respond by telling me to go read the Wikipedia rules and that every piece of information needs citable sources. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 61.72.47.41 (talk • contribs).
 * This isn't very persuasive. Please source notability and status as an alumnus as others have also requested.  It seems fairly clear that the name is challenged and should thus be cited.  Thanks. skip (t / c) 10:38, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Hello once again I've provided references. I'd just like to say gokugohan keeps deleting the references I put up.

Article Quality Rating
Moving Article to C-Class/Unstable from Unstable. Jason 10:50, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Article Rank Change
Moving article to 4th rank from 5th rank. I think that this article is a little bit more than an very small topic area. Not quite 3rd rank though, I'll admit.

Slight Influence?
The Influence of Christianity section claims that "there is universal respect for all religions with a slight influence on Christianity". This statement is misleading. The influence at the school is very strong and noticeable. Here's a list of examples of Christian influence:

-Students are encouraged to pray during assemblies

-The school mascot is the "Crusader"

-Creationism and intelligent design are taught in the biology curriculum, evolution is explained but much evidence is presented in the curriculum to disprove it(I took biology there)

-Students are required to have 1.5 religious class credits in Christian-oriented classes

There is no discrimination against people of other religions however I believe the "there is universal respect for all religions with a slight influence on Christianity" needs to be changed to "there is universal respect for all religions however there is a strong Christian influence within the school" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Browningchris (talk • contribs) 00:55, April 29, 2007 (UTC) -As a private Christian school SFS does a great job educating their students on all religions. As a high school student they are required to reach a certain amount of requirements but they are not solely based on Christianity. They do a great job educating their students on all religions. The teachers definitely encourage students to understand different religions to better understand Christianity. -Students may have different complaints on SFS but they provide an open environment to ask questions based on religion with no judgement and fear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.53.101.84 (talk) 03:37, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Article rating
Since there hasn't been edit warring for a while, I'm going to remove the edit warring template. Also, I doubt that the article meets the criterion for a B rating; at most, it's a stub (this is a B-article, this one's a start). I'm posting to see if there are any objections.  KJ  Discuss? 05:12, 13 September 2014 (UTC)