Talk:Separation of powers under the United States Constitution

26 Jun 2004
I was under the impression that FDR's presidency marked a major shift in the balance of power between the president and Congress. Before FDR, was it common for a president to push legislation? Certainly it has been common since then (The Fair Deal, the War on Poverty, No Child Left Behind, etc) but I thought FDR was the first to do this. Isomorphic 02:13, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

9 Jul 2004
''In its prototype of the United States Constitution, the phrase separation of powers never appears, but is clearly dictated by the structure of the Constitution, with checks and other powers delegated specifically and exclusively to each. ''

What is this bulls**t? the Supreme Court is appointed directly by the president, already a big cross through the trias politica, also the president is both supreme commander of the military (executive) and the main legislative body so at least in the top there is no seperation between the trias politica whatsoever. But not a mere hint of that is to be found in this article.

how did this ever made it to a featured article?

normally i should have replaced the whole article with a stub so people could write a proper one, but since it's a featured article i won't but i strongly suggest an entire rewrite of the article, so it doesn't exist only of patriotical bull --62.251.90.73 15:32, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * The suggestion that I, who created this article, am biased in favour of the United States is clearly laughable, noting especially that I am no citizen of, and am not "patriotical" [sic] in regard to, the same. Clearly the above commentator has disregarded the section "Checks and balances," which notes that separation of powers is not absolute. Nor has he or she failed to neglect that criticism of the system has been pointed out. Furthermore, the commentator is clearly mistaken in implying that the President is "the main legislative body." It is entirely absurd to suggest that there is "no separation ... whatsoever." -- Emsworth 17:33, Jul 9, 2004 (UTC)
 * Well i see that dispite the absurdness of my comment still made some changes in the header, and I think it's a whole lot better now :)


 * Nor has he or she failed to neglect that criticism of the system has been pointed out. Well there is criticism pointed out in the 'views on' section, but that was criticism on the efficiency and not on the amount of seperation and although it is mentioned that Separation of powers is not absolute it is not critized, or criticism or the theoretical dangers of that mentioned.


 * Yeah saying that there is "no seperation whatsoever" is a bit absurd indeed, but on the top there ain't much, and what happens on the top more or less, at least theoretically, works it's way down.


 * Sorry if i ranted a bit, i like that, just filter out what you think is usefull :P --62.251.90.73 12:23, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Um, since when is the Executive branch the main legislative body? The Congress is in charge of legislation.  Also, the Congress controls the purse-strings of the Government and may prevent military action by failing to fund certain military activities.  The Supreme Court is appointed for life and should be nearly immune from tampering, which is more important than basic political leanings of each justice - as long as they don't have to fear the executive, they SHOULD be chiefly responsible for upholding the Constitution.  To appoint a justice (as it's usually only one - either a replacement for retirement or death) and then require the approval of the Congress doesn't take away from the separation of powers, in fact it upholds it.  Seriously, I think this article is pretty well written. --Abqwildcat 22:51, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * I don't agree at all with your statement that the Judiciary should be the chief protectors of the Constitution. I recognized immediately that the Constitution is incredibly explicit about the checks and balances between the executive and the legislature. The fact that it is silent about something like Judicial Review is very telling. Why so detailed about the powers between Congress and the President and then leave out Judicial Review? It can only mean it was never meant to be. Remember the Constitution is a framework for Government, while the Federalist Papers were political propaganda intended to convince people to adopt the Constitution. Political documents are not a basis for Government Powers. I consider the Declaration and Constitution to be strong Constitutional documents, but the Federalist Papers are not. The Judiciary should have decided cases on their merits, setting up an American, national common law (similar to English common law, which was a basis for many laws and legal traditions in America). Instead, the Supreme Court turned away from common law as its function and invented Judicial Review. I believe they hurt America in the long run. They made people believe that they were somehow the only experts on the Constitution. The Constitution is not a very difficult document to understand. Most people can read it and get a fairly firm grasp on its real intentions. Instead, hardly anyone bothers to actually read it through, believing the experts of the court are the only ones who can penetrate its mystic words. The People are the defenders of the Constitution, not the Court. The People's vote is the check against Congress, not the fairy tale that is Judicial Review.


 * The Constitution Article I, Section 8; (and especially the necessary and proper clause as summation) gives all the Power to Congress which has the exclusive power to legislate, to make laws and to the enumerated powers and all other powers vested in the government by the Constitution. The President has the responsibility to preserve protect and defend the Constitution and the Laws of the United States in much the same way as a vassal takes an oath of alleigence to his leige lord. He is delegated authority by and with the advice and consent of the Senate. By analogy we the people are the owners, the Congress is our architect, drawing up plans and specifications which the President then executes as contractor according to the instructions of Congress. The judiciary is like a clerk of the works

Regarding the "Conclusion" section
In general, I'm not a fan of titling things that contain valuable information as "conclusion" since such a title conveys no information of what to expect from the section ("click here"). Since this section contains expert/informed opinions on Separation of Powers in the US, and what it should be, perhaps it could be titled in a more expressive way. Something like "Views of separation of powers in the USA" might work. Also, such a title might encourage more contributions of famous or expert analyses of the topic. Note, since its a featured article, I didn't want to just change it, while it was linked from the main page, so I posted here ( &mdash;siro&chi;o 00:25, Jul 10, 2004 (UTC)

No mention of "tyranny by the majority"?
That is Hamilton's bread and butter (why no mention of Hamilton either)? Is tyranny by the majority info perhaps best added elsewhere? zen master 05:59, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Federalism
I'm not sure about the accuracy of this statement: "Another strict constitutional principle delineated in the United States Constitution and referred to as a separation of powers, is that between the federal level of government and the state level. This principle is more often referred to as federalism." I don't think anyone ever really refers to federalism as "separation of powers"? --JW1805 02:28, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Legislative power
The non-delegation doctrine is not very clearly presented (it should be clearer that it is effectively a dead-letter). Also, the problem with the line-item veto isn't excessive delegation, but rather the Presentment Clause. Amcfreely 06:28, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps this is not the appropriate forum for the following remark, so please have patience with me... If the founders were serious about the importance of seperations of powers, why does the Vice President have the casting vote in case of a tie (cf. the discussion in relation to the Tim Johnson affair)? Wouldn't it have been more appropriate to secure the separation of powers by giving the casting vote to a party not occupying the executive power? Would be very interested to receive a comment on my this remark. PJ 17:47, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Exective power
What's noteworthy about independent agencies is not that the President is not entitled to control any particular agency, but rather than they can exist at all. The problem with the legislative veto is not interference with executive officers, but rather the Presentment and Bicameralism requirements. Amcfreely 06:35, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

note: It seems that some editors have taken it upon themselves to make the President a subordinate to Congress, and to use this section not to describe powers of the Executive, but rather another section for describing Congressional powers over the Executive branch, even so far as to suggest that Congress can pass regulatory laws over the Executive branch without approval of the President. The same can be said for the Judicial section. Congressional powers should be relegated to the Legislative powers section. Are members of Congress doing this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.15.117.120 (talk) 16:21, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Judicial power
Should mention Northern Pipeline and Schor and should link to Article III court Amcfreely 06:35, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Merge section Separation of Powers
The section is too detailed for its place. If not deleted, the content should be merged here. Unless a better qualified person steps forward, I'll be bold. --Swift 06:10, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Who is Rice in the second paragraph?
Who is Rice, and what is meant by the sentence that starts, "Rice therefore suggested ..." Sounds like something a constitutional scholar might understand right off, but alas, I am not one of those. ;-) Help? (a wikilink to the correct article on Rice might help clarify) --MoxRox 01:25, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

What, no Cheney branch?
Hmm...


 * Wikipedia does not have a sense of humor.--agr 20:59, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Johnson and Nixon during the 1960s and 1970s exploited the presidency particularly Nixon.
This may be true, but I see no basis for this quoted in the article. Should the sentence be removed until a verifiable source is shown? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.167.62.149 (talk) 17:14, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Executive Orders
Since the Constitution enumerates the authority/powers of each branch of the government, isn't there a remedy or injunction to executive orders not specifically allowed/enumerated under the constitution? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.230.50.18 (talk) 19:52, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Removed these tags

 * { { Multiple issues|cleanup=February 2009|original research=February 2009|weasel=April 2010| { { Too few opinions|date=October 2012 } } } }
 * I removed the above tags. If you have any issues with that, just copy, paste & re-tag. No work was done as follow-up once the tags were established. 10stone5 (talk) 22:05, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

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States suing the US Federal government
I found this but I'm not sure if this will be directly relevant to the article "STATES SUING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT: PROTECTING LIBERTY OR PLAYING POLITICS?" by Elbert Lin WhisperToMe (talk) 01:43, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

This article is a childish mess
This article is a childish mess that reads like the ramblings of a poorly-educated 17-year-old teenager who barely passed civics but has no university-level training in political science or jurisprudence. I don't have the time to research this subject from scratch. At some point I plan to look at the article history and either revert back to the last good version (I remember it used to be much shorter and clearer), or pull out most of the unsourced garbage and reduce it to the bare-bones facts that everyone can agree on (the kind of things that I can readily find sources for on Google Books in civics textbooks). --Coolcaesar (talk) 16:52, 17 November 2022 (UTC)