Talk:Sequence breaking

Dokokashira
I corrected the translation of the Pokemon Red&Green "Dokokashira" glitch. It means "somewhere" as explained here (in Japanese) http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1231020772 It's actually dokoka-shira(nu). dokoka means somewhere, shira is an abbreviation of shiranu (without knowing). It's usually translated as somewhere or "somewhere or other" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.200.46.140 (talk) 08:42, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Someone has reinstated the incorrect version, so I was surprised to find this correct and polite explanation of the issue here. Looks like our helpful anonymous editor either didn't bother to check the Talk page, or didn't care about this note. I would also imagine that "Dokokashira Door" is a deliberate play on Doraemon's famous "Dokodemo Door" ("Anywhere Door", where the destination can be directly controlled), but I have no reference for this, and indeed there isn't even a reference for the original assertion that this bug has this nickname (or even that it actually exists). So I'm editing it.Nezuji (talk) 04:11, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Untitled
Could somebody maybe source these threads from GameFAQs? -- gakon5 00:56, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Not sure how you want to go about this, but check metroid2002. They apparently have had someone submit the old topics they archived! --SheeEttin 19:03, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

On the original coinage of the term
In response to the following, removed from the main article:


 * The information is incaccurate, the use of the term "Sequence Break" or "Sequence Breaking" was relatively common with regards to Super Metroid, there were even FAQ's written with the name "Sequence Breaking FAQ" that can be found on http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbadvance/game/914982.html **

The gamefaqs section which you link to is for Metroid: Zero Mission, a game which was released after Metroid Prime, and the faq you mention is (c) 2004. The term in connection with Metroid Prime is from January 2003.

Now, if you can back up your statement about Super Metroid with sources, fine, I've got no problem with keeping things accurate, but get some sources first, please.

SABERinBLUE 00:18, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

That comment was mine - and my bad about not posting on the discussion board :(...i didn't know Wikipedia well enough to figure it out. I don't have any concrete evidence w/regards to Super Metroid usage of the term (it was used in converstaions, but i lack sources). As for the posted source - i had the two games mixed up nothing more sinister than that. I'll look for sources and see if I can find somethign archived earlier than 2002/2003.

AHA! Here's a reference by the author inside the 'speed demos archive' of the term "Sequence Break" used in conjunction with the game Metroid II: Return of Samus. Released 1991. http://speeddemosarchive.com/Metroid2.html

You just referenced a document that was created on 8/10/04 at the earliest. Stop trolling. Ekarderif 19:20, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Something about this article bothers me... I know the term has been around earlier than 2003 (and certainly before Metroid Prime), but I have no factual information in which to cite... it just bothers me, like an itch that I can't scratch. Jet082 18:09, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I also remember seeing the term earlier than the Metroid Prime release date in a discussion about Super Metroid. No sources to back it up though. But I am sure that there should be some around. 85.181.179.156 16:57, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd also like to throw my hat in on this "Heard it in reference to Super Metroid before Prime" sentiment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.127.8.149 (talk) 08:54, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

A possible example...?
Would it be considered Sequence Breaking with the speed runs through Super Mario Bros. and particularly Super Mario World?

SMB had these Warp Zones that let players skip to a much later part of the game, though that was done on purpose.

However, speed runs through SMW has players accessing the "Star World" as quickly as they can and use alternate exits through each of these five worlds to end up next to Bowser's Castle, the final area. What was supposed to be intended was that the player discovers the five entrances to the Star World and eventually use the alternate exits to connect them together and make a shortcut to other worlds. Ron Stoppable 03:20, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

The problem with labeling this as a 'sequence break' is that - while it may have been possible that the intended design was that you first must find the other exits before you can access the other points in the star world - that belies the point of their being keys to connect the levels AND the althernate exits' paths already being connected in the star world. In either case, this topic does not yet have a series of documented sequence breaks, rather only a discussion of the first time a sequence break was called a sequence break. The first exploitation of glitches to seriously cut down on the time a game takes to complete (ie: sequence break) would almost certainly have to be in the original NES Metroid (released: 1986) in which the player beats the final boss without beating the other two required bosses (Ridley and Kraid). In the technical terms: "Mother Brain before Ridley and Kraid". This was clearly not intended as the method by which it is done exploits a glitch to pull an enemy through from a previous room, over an 'uncrossably' high jump and through a pool of acid. Beating the two bosses (clearly marked by statues) forms a bridge over this obstacle, but sequence breakers used the frozen enemy pulled through the room as a stepping stone. In the face of many other such more clear cut examples, i would advise not posting that example lest people get the wrong idea (and take 'ingame shortcuts' to be sequence breaks).


 * I think a better example of a sequence break is in the old game Pitfall. You were meant to run to the right in the game, scrolling the obstacles, but it was possible to start running left and go through the course backward.  Aguerriero  ( talk ) 15:10, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Image of Metroid sequence break
Samus using the frozen enemy or damage boost or whatever would be a good screenshot and I think it would qualify as fair use as- Anyway a screenie would be nice. --WikiSlasher 06:04, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) It shows an example of what the article is about.
 * 2) It is low resolution.
 * 3) It does not limit the company's ability to sell the game.
 * Here is one of Samus climbing the cliff in Maridia known as Mount Doom among sequence breakers, without the gravity suit, which is normally required, along with grappling beam, in that area. http://folk.uio.no/sigurdkn/m3_samus_climbing_mount_doom2.png This is a screenshot from Red Scarlet's 72% no boss/miniboss-run. A higher quality shot of the same procedure could be taken in an emulator, but I don't have the time now. Did you know that it is possible to defeat all bosses except mother brain in any order, or that all bosses (even mother brain) are skippable? Amaurea 22:11, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Organizing
Just went through and alphabetized the examples given. Previously there was no discernible order. --Antsh 20:43, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Pokemon Red&Blue
Is trading a HM'd pokemon really an exploit. I would have thought this was a feature made to promote trading. Also, remember that you could only "use" these moves after obtaining certain gym badges, and it has not been corrected in later games. I think this is intended as an alternate way of obtaining a HM (although a real HM is obviously more desirable because you can reuse it)

Anyway back on topic: should this one be removed. --Gigitrix (talk) 21:26, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with that. Evaunit ♥666♥ 03:04, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

diablo?
does anyone know/have a cite for the diablo sequence break in the article? i googled and couldn't find anything --dan (talk) 08:00, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

More Examples
Super Metroid - Wall Jumping allowsone to get the Wave Beam relatively early. Xmen (Genesis) - "Bamf"ing with Nightcrawler allows for many shortcuts, such as skipping the second fight with Juggernaut. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.207.251.110 (talk) 05:19, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Intentional sequence breaking
It seems that the developers of certain games (Metroid, especially) are well aware that some players will attempt sequence breaking, either taking extra effort to make sure it's extremely difficult to do (Metroid Fusion especially, with it's altered bomb jumping mechanics and removal of single wall jumping, amongst other things), or making it intentionally easier to do (such as Metroid zero having various well hidden - or even barely hidden - alternate routes that allow you to skip items or obtain them early). In particular with the Metroid series, it seems like the developers try to make sure the game will still behave in a sane and unglitched manner if sequence breaking occours (with the exception of Metroid Fusion, where doing things like beating bosses early causes the wrong item to be recieved or event to be activated), and try to make sure that a sequence breaking player cannot become "stuck" in an area if they get there before they were supposed to. The thing is, I do believe this would be highly relevant information to put into the article, but it would probably be very difficult to find reliable sources to state that some developers are aware of (and cater for) sequence breaking - my own quick google searches turned up very little, other than the widely held *belief* that certain games intentionally make it easier (which they do in a very obvious manner at times, but this still is not really citable). So, does anyone think they can help with this issue? Xmoogle (talk) 18:48, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Fallout 1 / 2
Those games allow you to get to the final boss without REALLY doing much else. Maybe unintentionally, maybe intentionally (challenging the player to find shorter ways?).

Maybe someone could write something down about this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.80.30.238 (talk) 22:16, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Zelda
in the original zelda you can skip ahead through the graveyard and the centaurs and get teh magic wand from a later dungeon. You cannot complete this dungeon because you do not yet have the step ladder, but the magic wand can be obtained before anything else, and will make the entire game sufficently easier. I figure this would be sequence breaking, but I dont know if it would be a good example, as many games allow you to get stronger weapons than you need. 72.12.72.122 (talk) 15:10, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Crono Trigger
When I heard this term I immediately remembered the sequence in the fair in Crono Trigger when you can use a different portal than the one Luca tells you to use in order to face Lavos and complete the game early. I'm undecided as to whether this counts as a true sequence break because it can be argued it was intended gameplay (I don't recall if it led to a unique ending) so I will post this here in case someone else would like to add it to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.13.141.100 (talk) 03:02, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Unnecessarily long list
The "Examples" section was way too long, so I cut it down to a size that makes sense given the length of the main article. It simply isn't necessary to list every major game ever made that allows you to skip objectives or obtain a powerful item early in the game--especially when the list is roughly four times as long as the rest of the article. It honestly read like a list of trivia a bunch of different people added about their favorite games--and it probably is. Very un-encylopedic and not appropriate for Wikipedia. 64.85.243.248 (talk) 22:17, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 * 64.85.243.248 Oh, that makes alot of sense. My apologies about reverting your edits. You didn't provide a edit summary, which is why I reverted. Feel free to undo my edits. Boomer Vial (talk) 22:32, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry about that! My bad. 64.85.243.248 (talk) 06:50, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Wait, now there is not a single example left?!? BTW, in SteamWorld Dig is an achievement called Sequence Breaker. --Xario (talk) 19:02, 27 March 2017 (UTC)