Talk:Serbia and Montenegro in the Eurovision Song Contest/Archive 1

Eurosong
Well, people. I need to add that we've been on Eurosong earlier that 2004... We've been called Yugoslavia than...

> True, the federal republic of yugoslavia is basically the same as Serbia-Montenegro. The federal republic of yugoslavia is not even the successor of the former Yugoslavia. Also, I believe that in 2006 Montenegro was able to watch it on the Serbian channel and to vote.


 * I agree with your position. As long as we do not have a separate article about Federal Republic of Yugoslavia in the Eurovision Song Contest the data about FR Yugoslavia and the data for Serbia and Montenegro - at least in this article - should be merged. And it is the fact that people in Montenegro could vote because Serbia and Montenegro had the same telephone system - calling code 381. -- Imbris 23:22, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * We have it now. -- Imbris (talk) 03:29, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Yugoslavia - and Serbia & Montenegro
OK, since we obviously have a disagreement here, the correct thing for me to do is to open up the discussion on the talk page instead of edit-warring. Let me explain.

To the people trying to dispute this: In 1992, the country which participated in the Eurovision Song Contest was called Yugoslavia. The song "Ljubim Te Pesmama" was included in the list of performances of Yugoslavia. In the year 2000, for example, no-one talking about the ESC ever stated that Serbia & Montenegro debuted in 1992. That is because, at that time, a country with the name of "Serbia & Montenegro" did not exist! It is only now in recent times, since Serbia & Montenegro have taken part (since 2004), that nitpickers have tried to say this.

Read the Wikipedia entries on Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and Serbia and Montenegro. The former states that the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (consisting of the republics of Serbia and Montenegro, existed from 1992 to 2003. The latter states that Serbia and Montenegro was a union of Serbia and Montenegro, which existed between 2003 and 2006.

Therefore, it can be clearly seen that as political entities, the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia existed from 1992-2003 and Serbia and Montenegro existed from 2003-2006. There is no justification for claiming that the Eurovision entry in 1992 was entered under the flag of S&M. It wasn't. S&M didn't exist as a political entity under that name in 1992.

'''Let me make this crystal clear: even though the land area occupied by the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia - and later occupied by Serbia & Montenegro is the same, the fact remains that they are different political entities, with different constitutions. "Ljubim Te Pesmama" was not entered by "Serbia & Montenegro" - as that country did not even exist in 1992!'''

If someone really, really wants to be pedantic then they could remove the 1992 Yugoslavian entry from the list of other entries from Yugoslavia, since it was technically a new political entity between 1991 and 1992. However, this is already addressed in the article, which does state in footnote b: "The entries presented as being from "Yugoslavia" represented the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, except for the 1992 entry, which represented the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia." EuroSong talk 08:02, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, me and Imbris beat this up to death on Talk:Yugoslavia in the Eurovision Song Contest. He created FR Yugoslavia in the Eurovision Song Contest, I felt that it should be merged with the main Yugoslavia page because the EBU considers both older Yugoslav and the 1992 entries to be Yugoslavia. On the summary page, it lists Yugoslavia's entries from 1961 to 1992. After getting into all these details about the flag and "FR Yugoslavia did not have the right" we decided to merge it into Serbia and Montenegro with a note saying that the two areas of land participated as Yugoslavia in 1992, but changed their name. This was also somewhat supported by the featured list List of countries in the Eurovision Song Contest. And its actually the same flag, FR Yugoslavia and Serbia and Montenegro, and they had the same name for their national final. Grk1011 (talk) 12:00, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter that they used the same name for their national final. The fact is, this is Wikipedia and everything here needs references. The most reliable reference available for countries' participation histories is that of the EBU. Therefore we should accept their list. If the EBU say that Yugoslavia participated in 1992, and then S&M made their debut in 2004, then so should we. Anything else is original research. Note: "Articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position not clearly advanced by the sources". Proclaiming that, since S&M occupied the same land area as FR Yugoslavia, and they had the same name for their national final, means that FR Yugoslavia = S&M, is a giant - and erroneous - leap of faith. I challenge anyone to find me an alternative reliable source (beyond a fan site) which states that S&M made their debut in 1992!
 * I do realise, by the way, that the matter is open to interpretation by different people. In many situations, the facts are undisputed, but people just wish to look at them in alternative ways. The best way I resolve such disputes is to examine what people say and feel at the relevant time and place. Now, I was there at the Contest in Istanbul 2004, and I can tell you that everyone was simply talking about S&M making their debut entry. Therefore, if the EBU says so (with a reliable source), and the general feeling on the ground says so, then I'm sorry - but those people who argue the alternative view must learn to accept these facts. EuroSong talk 17:23, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That's what i said from the beginning. As far as the EBU was concerned, the 1992 entry was still Yugoslavia, but you are late on the discussion and we reached a compromise after dozens of responses back and forth. Grk1011 (talk) 19:08, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Consensus is that FRY is SCG under different name. So FRY should be merged with SCG. We're in a similar situation with the SCG/FRY soccer team article, it seems. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 05:50, 2 September 2019 (UTC)