Talk:Serbs in Bulgaria/Archive 1

St. George of Sofia
He was from Kratovo in present day Macedonia and died in Sofia, today in Bulgaria. He lived in times when nationalities did not exist in modern sense. He was simply a Christian, not Serb or Bulgarian. His live is even not related to present-day Serbia. 78.159.147.70 (talk) 04:51, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
 * The Serbian Patriarchs were titled then Fathers of the Serbs and the Bulgarians, i.e. they administrated not only Serbian ethnic territories - Божијеју милостију патријарх Пекски и всем Срблем и Блгаром. More, according to academic sources, there was no ethnic monopoly of the Pec Patriarchate and it was not ethnic Serbian institution. See: State, Faith, and Nation in Ottoman and Post-Ottoman Lands, Frederick F. Anscombe, Cambridge University Press, 2014, ISBN 110772967X,  p. 151. Per American historian and expert of the Balkan issues prof. Dennis P. Hupchick and his book The Bulgarians in the Seventeenth Century: Slavic Orthodox Society and Culture Under Ottoman Rule, McFarland, 1993, p. 120, George was a Bulgarian.  However, Raymond Detrez claims in his Historical Dictionary of Bulgaria, Rowman & Littlefield, 2014, ISBN 1442241802, on p. 353, that   the authors of neither hagiography, including Georges one, mention the new Bulgarian martyrs' ethnic origin. All were described only as Christians. And finally,  according to the detailed biography of St. George of Sofia published in the book Contested Conversions to Islam: Narratives of Religious Change in the Early Modern Ottoman Empire, Stanford University Press, 2011, ISBN 0804773173, by Tijana Krstic, on pp. 125-126., there isnt mentioned any nationality of this new martyr. 46.16.193.70 (talk) 08:12, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Instead of removing the whole sentence, which is directly related to the article, you could have added "Serbian and Bulgarian saint".--Z oupan 18:31, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Unexplained neutrality issue reverted; neutralized the saint's name to George of Kratovo.--Z oupan 12:35, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
 * There were any Serbs in Sofia during Ottoman times per search-engines above and especially per neutral, reliable sources. This Serbian nationalist agenda was popularized during the early 20th century. As prof. Ivo Banac claims, (in his book "The National Question in Yugoslavia. Origins, History, Politics", Cornell University Press, 1984) the beginning of the twentieth century, marked the writings that were apologetic of Serbian interests in the Balkans, notably the works of Jovan Cvijic and Aleksandar Belic, two of Serbia's most distinguished scholars. In his studies of South Slavic ethnography, expounded since the turn of the century but synthesized during his wartime exile in France (1918), Cvijic devised a "Central Balkan Type", dissimilar at the same time to the "Dinaric Type" (the principal "Serb" type) and the "East Balkan Type" (representing the Bulgarians, excluding not just Macedonia, but even the region of Sofia, Bulgaria's capital). The true Bulgarians belonged only to the "East Balkan Type," and, were "different from the other South Slavs in their ethnic composition." More important, their national character was decidedly un-Slavic... This caricature of Bulgarians permitted their clear differentiation from the "Central Type," within which Cvijic included Macedonians, the Shopi, including in Sofia, and the Torlaks, a type that was eminently Slavic and therefore non-Bulgarian...212.5.158.48 (talk) 18:06, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
 * There were any Serbs in Sofia during Ottoman times per search-engines above and especially per neutral, reliable sources. This Serbian nationalist agenda was popularized during the early 20th century. As prof. Ivo Banac claims, (in his book "The National Question in Yugoslavia. Origins, History, Politics", Cornell University Press, 1984) the beginning of the twentieth century, marked the writings that were apologetic of Serbian interests in the Balkans, notably the works of Jovan Cvijic and Aleksandar Belic, two of Serbia's most distinguished scholars. In his studies of South Slavic ethnography, expounded since the turn of the century but synthesized during his wartime exile in France (1918), Cvijic devised a "Central Balkan Type", dissimilar at the same time to the "Dinaric Type" (the principal "Serb" type) and the "East Balkan Type" (representing the Bulgarians, excluding not just Macedonia, but even the region of Sofia, Bulgaria's capital). The true Bulgarians belonged only to the "East Balkan Type," and, were "different from the other South Slavs in their ethnic composition." More important, their national character was decidedly un-Slavic... This caricature of Bulgarians permitted their clear differentiation from the "Central Type," within which Cvijic included Macedonians, the Shopi, including in Sofia, and the Torlaks, a type that was eminently Slavic and therefore non-Bulgarian...212.5.158.48 (talk) 18:06, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
 * There were any Serbs in Sofia during Ottoman times per search-engines above and especially per neutral, reliable sources. This Serbian nationalist agenda was popularized during the early 20th century. As prof. Ivo Banac claims, (in his book "The National Question in Yugoslavia. Origins, History, Politics", Cornell University Press, 1984) the beginning of the twentieth century, marked the writings that were apologetic of Serbian interests in the Balkans, notably the works of Jovan Cvijic and Aleksandar Belic, two of Serbia's most distinguished scholars. In his studies of South Slavic ethnography, expounded since the turn of the century but synthesized during his wartime exile in France (1918), Cvijic devised a "Central Balkan Type", dissimilar at the same time to the "Dinaric Type" (the principal "Serb" type) and the "East Balkan Type" (representing the Bulgarians, excluding not just Macedonia, but even the region of Sofia, Bulgaria's capital). The true Bulgarians belonged only to the "East Balkan Type," and, were "different from the other South Slavs in their ethnic composition." More important, their national character was decidedly un-Slavic... This caricature of Bulgarians permitted their clear differentiation from the "Central Type," within which Cvijic included Macedonians, the Shopi, including in Sofia, and the Torlaks, a type that was eminently Slavic and therefore non-Bulgarian...212.5.158.48 (talk) 18:06, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
 * There were any Serbs in Sofia during Ottoman times per search-engines above and especially per neutral, reliable sources. This Serbian nationalist agenda was popularized during the early 20th century. As prof. Ivo Banac claims, (in his book "The National Question in Yugoslavia. Origins, History, Politics", Cornell University Press, 1984) the beginning of the twentieth century, marked the writings that were apologetic of Serbian interests in the Balkans, notably the works of Jovan Cvijic and Aleksandar Belic, two of Serbia's most distinguished scholars. In his studies of South Slavic ethnography, expounded since the turn of the century but synthesized during his wartime exile in France (1918), Cvijic devised a "Central Balkan Type", dissimilar at the same time to the "Dinaric Type" (the principal "Serb" type) and the "East Balkan Type" (representing the Bulgarians, excluding not just Macedonia, but even the region of Sofia, Bulgaria's capital). The true Bulgarians belonged only to the "East Balkan Type," and, were "different from the other South Slavs in their ethnic composition." More important, their national character was decidedly un-Slavic... This caricature of Bulgarians permitted their clear differentiation from the "Central Type," within which Cvijic included Macedonians, the Shopi, including in Sofia, and the Torlaks, a type that was eminently Slavic and therefore non-Bulgarian...212.5.158.48 (talk) 18:06, 25 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Jovan Cvijić a Serbian nationalist is the author of this “ethnographic map” of the Balkans, published in 1918 by the American Geographical Society of New York. In the learly 20th century the international community viewed the Macedonian Slavs as regional variety of Bulgarians. During the Paris Peace Conference of 1919, the Allies sanctioned Serbian control of Vardar Macedonia and accepted the belief that Macedonian Slavs were in fact Southern Sebs. This change in opinion can largely be attributed to Jovan Cvijić. He changed western opinion through the publication of a series of maps, claiming even whole of western Bulgaria towards Sofia as visible on the map here, was populated by Sebs. As result Bulgarian populated territories known as Western Outlands passed directly from Bulgaria to Yugoslavia. The unjustified writings about Serbian colony in Sofia on that article are simply propaganda of his jingoistic ideas. For more see: Nationalism and Territory: Constructing Group Identity in Southeastern Europe, Geographical perspectives on the human past, George W. White, Rowman & Littlefield, 2000, ISBN 0847698092, p. 236. 78.159.147.70 (talk) 18:31, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

16th century Serbian colony in Sofia
This subsection lacks any reliable source and its verification has failed by the search-engine's attempts made above. Please, provide sources per the rules of Wikipedia to identify reliable sources in history. Thank you. 46.16.193.70 (talk) 10:11, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
 * No sources are provided till now, per Wikipedia rules for reliable sources in history. If this situation continues, I will remove this controversial and unscientific subsection. 46.16.193.70 (talk) 13:43, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

I take it as you have the sources you presented that refute a Serbian colony. Could you please add the citations here?--Z oupan 19:06, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Because no reliable sources were provided, I have removed the strange claim about the existence of a Serbian colony in Sofia. 46.16.193.70 (talk) 05:24, 30 July 2015 (UTC)