Talk:Serenity (2005 film)/Archive 3

Timeline of Firefly / Serenity?
I noticed that the lead of the Serenity article states that it "follows on from the canceled Fox science fiction television series Firefly, taking place about two months after the events of the final episode," and references something which is more of an unsourced note rather than a reference. And yet the plot section states that Simon Tam rescues his sister River from her captors and later find harbor on the spacecraft Serenity as the crew makes a living taking jobs of varying legality in the Outer Rim. Isn't Serenity more of a remake of the basic storyline, with elements that take place during, before, and after the Firefly series? Isn't it misleading for the lead of the article to treat the movie as a sequel to the series, rather than a partial movie remake? --AzureCitizen (talk) 16:39, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It begins with a short sequence showing Simon's rescue of River (from prior to Firefly's first episode), then jumps to a couple of months after the last episode of Firefly. No part of the film is a remake, or set during the show, but the article could perhaps make that clearer. --Nalvage (talk) 19:23, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the explanation - it makes more sense now. --AzureCitizen (talk) 08:21, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I find this difficult to understand, the ship that picks up River and Simon is Serenity, you can tell by the hull of the ship and the shape of the ship that flies over before it picks her up. This is a major plot-hole. Any explaination is needed to fill this hole, or a "Plot Hole" section should be made.Lessthancurt (talk) 20:52, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Nothing in the TV series or movie indicated that that ship was Serenity. What the materials DO include is that Serenity is a Firefly-CLASS ship--meaning that it's quite possible that Simon and River were rescued by a non-Serenity ship of the same class.  Think of a Firefly as like a 737--they all have basically the same silhouette, but there are lots of them out there.  However, to include this in the article, it would be necessary to demonstrate that some secondary source had commented on this issue, otherwise it is simply original thought. Jclemens (talk) 21:18, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The Serenity visual companion shows concept art of the ship that rescues Simon and River, and it is definately not Serenity. The Wookieepedian (talk) 21:28, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

dab unnecessary
The dab link is unnecessary because someone would not type in "Serenity (film)" if they were looking for a non-film related use of Serenity. xenocidic (talk) 17:04, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * (I was just adding the following response as Xenocidic posted, but essentially, what he said)
 * It's my (probably flawed) understanding that you only need disambiguation notes when it's conceivable that a user could have visited this page while trying to get to another article with the same name. However if you search for "Serenity", you get taken to the dab page.  You only get to this one by clicking on a direct link to it.  Therefore the link isn't necessary, since the function it now serves is not "Perhaps you were looking for some other Serenity" but rather "We know you were looking for this Serenity, but here are some others anyway".  I could very easily be wrong about all this.  --Nalvage (talk) 17:09, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess that makes sense. I withdraw my request for discussion. Thanks for explaining. - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  17:31, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

BDM info removed
I purged the re-addition of the Big Damn Movie info after JClemens added three sources to it. To begin with, at no point in Staite's blog (I thought we tend to avoid those) does she refer to Serenity as the Big Damn Movie. Her reference to BDM is without explanation and seems almost a non-connection of synthesis (ie, knowing that fans call it the BDM and connecting that info with Staite's ambiguous usage of the term) doesn't seem like a clear one. The second source, from Session416.com, seems to be a fan site (I am almost positive that we don't use those at all for citable information). The third source cited (from Weeklystandard.com) doesn't even mention the words BDM or Big Damn Movie. At all. So, here we have three sources, two of which are the poorest of allowable sources and the third doesn't even note the material supposedly being cited. Without proper citation from reputable, reliable sources, the statements cannot remain. We are not a fan service - we are an encyclopedia. - - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  07:49, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * See my reply, and feel free to respond, on my talk page. Jclemens (talk) 20:40, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Reaver population percentage
For those who helpfully want to "correct" the statement in the film about the percentage of the population that became Reavers, please read the lengthy discussion at Talk:Reaver (Firefly) before doing anything. In short, it points out that what is said is "a tenth of a percent of the population", and 1/10 of 1 percent is 0.001 or 0.1%, not 10%, 0.10, 1%, or 0.01. (Anyone who finds these similar-looking numbers confusing should probably not be editing this particular statement anyway.) This is a common misapprehension about the film, and it was such a long-standing problem at Reaver (Firefly) that I once took the trouble to rip a fair-use audio clip from the film just so editors could actually listen to Sarah Paulson say the words. Let's not go through that here, okay?

To try to avoid the problem here, I've quoted the passage (which was already being used almost verbatim without quotes) and cited the exact moment in the film (based on the released DVD) that Paulson says the words, so they may be verified by any editor with a DVD-rental account or nearby rental shop. I'm not so naive to think this will end the problem, but hopefully it will reduce it and make it easier to silence those who absolutely insist without checking that "I'm sure she said 'ten percent'!" ~ Jeff Q (talk) 19:43, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The changes today have only involved spelling it out (a tenth of a percent) or writing it as "0.1%", so the rest is not relevant now. -Fnlayson (talk) 19:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Serenity One Sheet.jpg
The image Image:Serenity One Sheet.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --21:29, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Serenity (film) and Outlaw Star
The movie continuation of Firefly contains many connections to the Japanese anime Outlaw Star that cannot be ignored.
 * The climax of the film involves a massive battle including the three main parties of the series as a whole, the Reavers, Alliance, and Firefly. The climax of Outlaw Star involves a space battle between the Kei Pirates, the Space Forces, and the Outlaw Star.
 * The climactic battle in Firefly took place above Mr. Universe's planet, which had a severely ionic atmosphere so one could see what was on one side from the other. The climactic battle in Outlaw Star took place above the Galactic Leyline planet, which had a severely ionic atmosphere so no one could see what was on one side from the other.
 * In Serenity' River is the only person on Serenity who knows where the final planet (Miranda) and knows there's anything worthwhile there. In Outlaw Star Melfina is the only person on the Outlaw Star who knows where the Galactic Leyline is, and that there's anything there.
 * The Name of the planet where the mystery in Serenity is Miranda which is the same as the password to the coordinates to find the Galactic Leyline.
 * The title of Serenity is the name of the main character's ship. The title of Outlaw Star is the name of the main character's ship.
 * Finding Serenity is part of a song that Melfina sings towards the end of the series. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.0.224.55 (talk • contribs) 18:15, November 16, 2008


 * Get over it! If you are that pissed off about your incorrect assumption that Joss Whedon ripped off your favorite anime, then bring it up on the forum or blog of your choice, but unless you can find a reliable, third-party source to verify your claims, which I can almost guarantee you cannot, stop bringing it up here. You will only be reverted. kingdom2 (talk) 18:20, 16 November 2008 (UTC)


 * To the IP editor: see No original research. To Kingdom2: keep it civil. --Pentasyllabic (talk) 18:23, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * So proud that an IP troll ripped off directly from my sub-user page. <3 (just found this on Google) Staxringold talkcontribs 01:50, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Girl in a box
The plagarsism isnt fake. you are lying to yourself

proof

http://inanetalk.com/smf/index.php?topic=1567.0

somone tell me how i can save all of this on the sernety page and show peopel that it has many simialrites with the anime outlaw start. wthout having somone editing it?


 * Forums and wikis are NOT considered reliable sources, only published information. kingdom2 (talk) 18:53, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

well do you agree or disgree that josh whedon ripped off outlaw star?

are images not reliable sources? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.0.224.55 (talk) 18:59, 16 November 2008 (UTC)


 * My opinion doesn't matter and whether or not he borrowed elements (plagiarism is much more serious than what you are stating he did) from Outlaw Star doesn't detract from the fact that a: Firefly is an amazing show and b: your edits do not belong on Wikipedia. They belong on a forum.


 * About the images, no they do not count as a reliable source as you are looking into more than the images say, which is essentially that two scenes look alike. kingdom2 (talk) 19:07, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

i now have an account on wiki and will try to foloow the rules. What will you do if i am able to place all the evidence on josh whedon wiki page and his works as well legitamtely?

will your remove it ?--Admit-the-truth (talk) 19:12, 16 November 2008 (UTC)


 * You won't be able to. It's as simple as that. There is no reliable, published information on the topic. Also, if you try to add those images, they themselves will be deleted from Wikipedia because they will violate copyright and you will not be following the Non-free content policy. Also, it is impossible to freeze a section to prevent it from being edited. It can't be done. kingdom2 (talk) 19:19, 16 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Why do you care so much. It doesn't matter and anyone who really cares about this issue already knows and already has the appropriate channels to express their views. You said yourself that you have no idea what Serenity or Firefly is, so how can you pass judgment on something that you have no knowledge of? Again, all I can say is "Get over it." kingdom2 (talk) 19:24, 16 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, all the information that you got from here was posted by a Wikipedia administrator. Don't you think that, if there was any way that this information could be posted, that he would have found a way? kingdom2 (talk) 19:30, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Removed paragraph
I've removed the following from the "Themes and cultural allusions" section:


 * There are a number of religious references in the series, perhaps most notably to Christianity. There are two references to the "seven deadly sins". When the operative kills the government scientist in the beginning of the movie he tells him that his sin is "pride". Later, when Mal is fighting the Operative, Mal tells him he is "a fan of all seven" (but at the moment, he chooses wrath). There is a Biblical reference after Mal tells Mr. Universe about the Miranda tape. Mr. Universe asks The Operative (who is standing right behind him while he is talking to Mal) for his "thirty coin", referring to the thirty pieces of silver that Judas was paid to betray Jesus. In addition, a number of characters are overtly religious: Shepherd Book describes himself as a Christian, Inara pays homage to a statue of Buddha, and, in line with Jewish tradition, Mr. Universe breaks a wine glass during his "marriage" with his love-bot Lenore.

This information seems highly synthesized, and as such cannot remain in the live article. When notable sources addressing these comparisons is found, bring them here so they can be assessed. As it is, the above paragraph cannot return to the article without citation. - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  18:27, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

NASA Poll
OK, I agree that what was originally inserted wasn't up to par, so I took what was there, revised it, sourced it, and toned down the claims a bit. I think it's got sufficient sourcing at the moment, but I wouldn't mind seeing it relocated within the article or made subordinate to another heading: it's not THAT big a deal for the movie. Jclemens (talk) 17:37, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

River and the Reavers image fair use
Is the "River and the Reavers image" image really so pivotal to the movie that it justifies fair use? I don't think so. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 17:52, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Intro
In the plot section of the article, it says that Earth was overpopulated. However, from my memory pf the movie and the series (I haven't seen the movie recently, but I saw the series just recently) I thought that Earth was destroyed, not overpopulated. I will be re-watching the movie soon, so I'll update this myself when I'm sure.

Continuity error
In the opening sequence in the Alliance Laboratory, Simon and the Scientist discuss River's psychic powers. However, in the series episode War Stories this comes as a revelation to him. Should this be in a trivia section or something? IndridCold13 (talk) 05:44, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, the episode was Objects in Space IndridCold13 (talk) 07:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Shorten plot
Can somebody give me the plot of the plot here? It is way too long in this version. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.224.185.41 (talk) 20:58, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Meaning of Arabic?
The Arabic word mentioned (الدحار) does not appear in the Collins Gem English-Arabic. Web searches imply it's a proper name. Varlaam (talk) 13:18, 10 July 2011 (UTC)