Talk:Set the Fire to the Third Bar

Song Information and Lyrics
Feel free to rephrase if you feel the Song Information section goes too far into interpretation but I think it is important this article includes some basic outline of the lyrics or story of the song. I also want to make sure there is some explanation of the song title, a bar fire is an odd somewhat archaic device and although it makes a quirky lyric we should not assume listeners of the song are familiar with the device. If you can find an article or review that discusses the lyrics in some way that would be great but just as a film can have a plot summary without requiring a citation for every line so too can a song have at least a basic overview of some form. Again feel free to change it but do try to keep enough to at least explain the title and give a suggestion of the lyrics. -- Horkana (talk) 20:18, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll keep this in mind for any future edits. Suede67 (talk) 21:03, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Clarification for other editors.
 * Looking back I see the above discussion may not make sense without context so I will explain. It is about the Background/Song information section being tagged as "citation needed" since July 2009 by Suede67 since he believes it should be fully referenced.
 * As I say above I thought it was fair to write an outline based on the lyrics just as a film can have a plot outline without needing citations. I was as careful as possible to avoid any original research and made efforts to rephrase when if it seemed too much like interpretation and not just a literal reading of what the lyrics say.
 * I would like to add a citation from a review or story and it would certainly be better if I could do that but I wasn't able to find something suitable. I want to emphasize that I do not think the section should be removed for lack of a citation, and the reason why it is included and has gone so long without citation might not be clear to other editors but I hope this explanation makes it clearer and will discourage anyone from deleting it without discussion first. -- Horkana (talk) 02:59, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I figured this might happen. As Suede67 insisted leaving the citation needed tag on the article another editor has asserted that this is interpretation and claimed it is wrong and deleted it.

What other explanation can be given for "set the fire to the third bar" other than than turning up the heat on a simple electric bar heater/fire? This seems far and beyond the most likely explanation and anything else seems so improbable that I must reject even the suggestion it is original research. Obvious as the idea of a is a bar heater is, the device is fairly old and simple, something someone living in a modern apartment might not even be familiar with it and the song might seem especially weird without that context. A good encyclopedia should not assume people are familiar with the device, just as it would be necessary to explain that an "iPod" is a portable music player, and that the Ford Model T is a motor car. It is unfortunate when editors fail to even realise cultural bias in their writing and make too many assumptions about what readers of an encyclopedia should know. I feel it is very important that the article include a basic explanation of the title and song terms just as the article for Yellow (song) includes a decent explanation. I will hold off on add the explanation back but if anyone has any sources explaining a bit more about the meaning of the song and the lyrics please do. -- Horkana (talk) 14:46, 10 June 2010 (UTC)


 * "Almost certainly wrong". Ha! Sorted. Was lucky enough to (finally) find an article from the Telegraph explaining clearly that the song title is most certainly about an electric bar fire. -- Horkana (talk) 16:00, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Guest vocalists
The section on Cheryl Cole got me thinking about the guest vocalists this song has been performed with. Lisa Hannigan performed the song at the Olympia Theatre gigs in Dublin this week. The gig in Killarney on Saturday featured actress Maria Doyle Kennedy, I'll try and find references and maybe see if I can put together a short paragraph on the various guest vocalists. -- Horkana (talk) 19:34, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Charts
The Charts section is a bit of a mess. Some editors keep creating a single table with multiple heading rows, instead of using a separate column for the year, which make for better sorting and comparison.

The chart had a column labelled "Position" for brevity, but for correctness and clarity someone change this to Peak position, which I suppose is reasonable enough. Try to verify the chart information and thinking about Peak position lead me to ask some questions. Most of the information is sourced from aCharts. Looking at the information more closely it becomes clear that 18 is the highest position the song has ever achieved in the UK chart, and that the entry for 2007 is not a reentry but simply a continuation of the 12 week run beginning in 2006. On this basis I do not think the 2007 figures are really notable.

Similarly I question the notability of the other chart reentries in other years. If any other positions are to be mentioned they will need additional citations to their notabiliy. Is the 2009 reentry to the British charts for the Charity re-release featuring Cheryl Cole? The aCharts source gives no indication, but if it was the case it might then be notable if it was cited.

Tables are ugly. List are ugly. The Wikipedia style guide recommends prose again and again. Snow Patrol seem to linger in the Charts, I think one of their other songs has been in the charts for (nearly) a record amount of time. A section of prose describing the ups and the downs of their chart appearances might be an improvement to the article.

For these reasons I've cut the table down to size, but you can take a look at the last full version of the table and add the other details back if you can find additional citations to show notability. -- Horkana (talk) 02:38, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Lyrics
I find the map and draw a straight line Over rivers, farms, and state lines The distance from 'A' to where you'd be It's only finger-lengths Jobby that I see I touch the place where I'd find your face My finger in creases of distant dark places

I hang my coat up in the first bar There is no peace that I've found so far

The laughter penetrates my silence As drunken men find flaws in science

Their words mostly noises Ghosts with just voices Your words in my memory Are like music to me

I'm miles from where you are, I lay down on the cold ground I, I pray that something picks me up And sets me down in your warm arms

After I have travelled so far We'd set the fire to the third bar We'd share each other like an island Until exhausted, close our eyelids And dreaming, pick up from The last place we left off Your soft skin is weeping A joy you can't keep in

I'm miles from where you are, I lay down on the cold ground And I, I pray that something picks me up and sets me down in your warm arms

I'm miles from where you are, I lay down on the cold ground and I, I pray that something picks me up and sets me down in your warm arms--24.14.73.20 (talk) 22:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia song articles do not normally include the full lyrics. I'm not sure but I think it is due to copyright issues. It seems to be okay to quote a few select lyrics, to help explain the song meaning. See WikiProject_Songs to learn more. -- Horkana (talk) 16:00, 10 June 2010 (UTC)