Talk:Settle–Carlisle line/Archive 1

Langwathby
Have added Langwathby to the list of stations and created a page for Langwathby Railway Station and also altered Lazonby and Appleby station pages can someone tell me why Langwathby was missed out in this article. Penrithguy 22:58, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Likely cos nobody had heard of it. Wikipedia's an evolving thing! 161.73.37.81 20:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Diversionary route
Is the S&C used for diversions much these days. The Caledonian sleeper, for instance. It didn't run on the day of the Grayrigg derailment, for instance, south of Carlisle, yet the Settle route was surely a viable diversionary route. Did it use it in the days afterwards? Is it routinely used thus? 161.73.37.81 20:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's still used for diversions when there's big engineering works. Last spring, when the WCML was closed most weekends north of Preston, Virgin ran an hourly service between Preston and Carlisle via Blackburn, Clitheroe and Hellifield.  When it's emergencies that close the line (such as after Grayrigg), it's quicker to bustitute up the M6 to/from Carlisle - although whilst the line was closed after Grayrigg, the first southbound service of the day from Carlisle and the last northbound service of the day to Carlisle did go via the S&C.  With the sleeper, the ECML is usual diversionary route, it'll probably be quicker that going over the S&C.  As for the night of the Grayrigg derailment, there may have been a number of reasons why, at such short notice, it didn't run, such as engineering possessions on both the S&C and the ECML, or no drivers with that particular route knowledge. Dupont Circle 08:44, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Closed stations
Should the map show the various closed or former stations along the route such as Scotby, Little Salkeld etc? Penrithguy (talk) 20:01, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

This is what I thought. It also shows inconsistancy by showing the closed branch for the Wensleydale Railway, but not for the Eden Valley or the other railway (South Durham? The one to Barnard Castle) on the map. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.29.10.166 (talk) 10:20, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Leeds to Glasgow
The SRA instructed Arriva Trains Northern to withdraw the Leeds - Glasgow trains north of Carlisle, as can be seen in the linked Stakeholder document. The service was often cancelled when ATN had driver shortages and industrial unrest, but that wasn't the reason it was withdrawn. Gmac67 (talk) 23:08, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

New "route" section
I have added a new "route" section that I have simply cut-and-pasted from the Airedale Line, where it was incorrectly included. It's not particularly well-written and I invite others to clean it up. --Dr Greg (talk) 17:14, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Article title
I propose renaming this article "Settle-Carlisle Line". This would bring it into line with other modern-day line articles. Using "Railway" in an article's title is, I suggest, appropriate only when referring to the name of a railway company. But there never was a "Settle & Carlisle Railway Company"; the line was built by the Midland Railway Company.

Furthermore I propose creating a redirect to this article called "Leeds-Settle-Carlisle Line", and to use that redirect in the "routeboxes" of the stations along the line. (But only for the present-day service, not for "Historical Rail" services.) This makes more sense, from a service point-of-view, especially for the stations between Settle and Leeds.

Any objections to either of these, or alternative suggestions? I'll wait a week or so for feedback before proceeding. --Dr Greg (talk) 17:57, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Should we be using the dash, most of the lines were changed to use to, Sheffield to Hull Line and Sheffield to Lincoln Line spring to mind of ones in this format? Keith D (talk) 20:35, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Top Speed
What, historically, was the top speed for the route? (I believe it is now downgraded because of a reduced track maintenance schedule). 78.147.200.75 (talk)

It was built to 90mph express standards (according to the Houghton & Foster book on the history of the line), although certain sections had lower permanent limits (such as near the Kirkby Thore gypsum plant, where there's been a long-standing permanent restriction due to mining subsidence and the 30mph limit over the Ribblehead viaduct single track portion). Today it's maintained for 60mph top speeds and there's an ongoing programme of track upgrading & replacement being carried out to make good many years of neglect and deal with the increasing volume of heavy freight routed over it (some sent that way to avoid the busy WCML in addition to the regular flows of imported coal from Scotland to Yorkshire and the East Midlands). Gmac67 (talk) 16:46, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

"set the pace"-- false scent
This expression threw me (false scent) I thought, until reading on it meant it was the fastest. Could we find something better? I must admit I can't think of anything right now. Set the bar? Hmmm. SimonTrew (talk) 11:48, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * How about "dominated the market"? If it's about speed, maybe we could say "held the record" (if we could find evidence) but - to me - the paragraph doesn't seem to be about speed. --Northernhenge (talk) 19:54, 4 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Nah, it's definitiely about dominating the market, not speed. It threw me off the scent because pace means speed. Then you read the next sentence and realise it is not about speed. Yeah, dominate the market seems good... I will make the change. SimonTrew (talk) 23:07, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

NER line to Northallerton
< end-on-junction with the North Eastern Railway (NER) line across the Pennines to Northallerton >

along, or down, Wensleydale makes more sense than "across the Pennines" in my view. 86.178.185.120 (talk) 01:11, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Possible renaming
I've started a topic about possibly renaming this article at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_UK_Railways. -mattbuck (Talk) 09:40, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

A barrister comments
This entry is broadly accurate. I was barrister for the objectors at the TUCC closure hearings in Appleby and Carlisle (they had to be re-opened as British Railways forgot that part of the line ran through a part of Yorkshire with a different TUCC!). I can confirm that grossly exaggerated figures were given by BR for the repair of the Ribblehead Viaduct, which would not have needed such repair had its waterproof membrane been kept intact. One note of historical interest is that the objectors consulted the son of Barnes Wallis, the famous aircraft and weapon designer, who specialised in bridges.

The late James Towler wrote a book about the fight to save the Settle-Carlisle, which could be used as a reference.

When my own book Spyhunter is published later this year it should be possible to update the reference to Dr. Beeching, who was a weapons scientist at Fort Halstead during WW2 and worked for the German Abwehr intelligence organisation - British Intelligence verified that he carried on working for Germany after WW2, specialising in the disruption of communications.

If anything the article underestimates the strategic and economic importance of the Settle-Carlisle, which now carries heavy traffic and is a vital diversionary route for the West Coast Main Line (WCML), eg when the WCML was sabotaged a few years ago at Greyrigg (from memory) by an Al Qaeda cell based in Oldham, Lancs, although the government took a decision to suppress mention of Al Qaeda's involvement, for political reasons (again this cannot go in the article itself as there will not be any source reference until my book comes out).

I shall be devoting a chapter in Spyhunter to the exposure of Beeching and an associate, who prepared a report in the early Thatcher years trying to extend the damage, and to the subject of transport infrastructure sabotage generally. 123.211.177.207 (talk) 01:37, 4 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Pity the bit about Beeching's secret work for Nazi Germany never made it to the book, but I presume that was in case the DVD (German Defence Service) had another go at assassinating you. And as the "go-to" man for legal problems regarding retired dictators you must have been very busy. But as you say, Mossad are nice guys, and they'll look after you.


 * But hey, you haven't posted anything else on here since your advertisement (above) ... are you ok?


 * Anyway I liked the exposure of the fact that the Aberfan disaster was in fact a German plot, and I agree with you that the RAF should have bombed strategic targets in the Ruhr as a reprisal, but of course with the well known German agent Harold Wilson as prime minister, that was "verboten". And as you reveal, the Great Western Railway was tragically nationalised by the German politician Clement Attlee.


 * The book is 617 pages, a snip for conspiracy fantasists at £25. Under £7 on Kindle. LOL Afterbrunel (talk) 21:05, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 05:50, 30 April 2016 (UTC)