Talk:Seventh generation of video game consoles/Archive 1

GPX2
Maybe the GP2X should be added to the handhelds list.

Nsteinberg 01:52, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Name of article
Unless there are objections, I'll be merging this into the meager video game console article within a few days and then possibly redirect it to an Amerindian topic (such as seventh generation standard). It looks like someone is trying to invent a name for the next generation of consoles (this was formerly 256-bit generation). --Mrwojo 16:32, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I assume someone disagrees with me, since the article has since moved to Seventh generation era (a small little redundancy there). The problem I have is that I have never heard the next generation of games called by anyone except for here on the Wikipedia. (Actually, I did find one site that suggests we're now in the 7th generation of consoles. ) --Mrwojo 18:50, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I've moved this article to 256-bit era. &mdash;Lowellian (talk)  18:24, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)

Never mind, moving back, as I'm not sure the consoles of this era actually are 256-bit. &mdash;Lowellian (talk)  18:26, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)


 * Almost none of the consoles in this era are 128-bit, so I'd say that using the bitrates as era names is foolish. I did start a yabber on the Video games project talk page about standardising things (so it'd be First Generation, and so on, instead of Atari Generation, Nintendo Generation, 16-Bit Era, and so on as it is now). Nothing came of it though. Sockatume 18:41, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC) Also: You've renamed this era with a hyphen in it in the process. Feel like changing all the seventh generation era links, and double-redirects, which have now been introduced, to be direct links, or renaming the article back the way it was? Stuff that links to hyphenless, stuff which links to hyphen (almost all double-redirects)

The current name is wrong however 256 bit is even more wrong.--Josquius 12:24, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * i think this artical should be renamed to History of Seventh Generation Video Game Systems, as we are inluding more than just consoles. J.L.Main 01:20, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Says who? This artical is part of a family of articals about *consoles*. Renaming the artical so people can add the EVO p1 is very poor form. vortex 01:49, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * i didn't make deffanant claim, so "says who?" is a very strange responce. also, i didn't say we should rename it so that Evo can be added.  i really don't care one way or the other about the Evo, it is over priced and pointless.  what i said is that as none of these articals are solely about consoles they should be renamed to include handhelds and things like the iQue and Virtual boy that are already included. J.L.Main 04:43, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I appologise for the over aggressive response.. I'm just starting to see EVO everywere :( My point still remains though... this artical is part a family of articals about video consoles and their generations, if the contents don't match shouldn't the contents be changed, not the titles? In particular since the other gaming 'devices' will most likley not follow the same generations as the main video game consoles (currently PS3, XB360 and Wii). I would suggest that the other device should put put onto their own pages, linked as related if need be. That allows a strict focus to be maintained for each artical, rather then what is occuring now (it's turning into to a laundry list) vortex 05:42, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay well the posted who's rewrite was deleted has reposted some of his post... I have gone thru it and deleted some of the bullsh*t stuff... ie...


 * and thus referring the seventh generation as the 512-bit generation.

The begening of this sentance said "PS3 & xBox 360 have 512MB RAM and thus..."

Well this is total crap... even ig you where to convert 512MB into Bit it would be...

4 294 967 296 bit not 512 bit


 * PS3 has the largest fan based, and the most successful franchises.

How does the PS3 have the largest fan base... it doesnt even exist. And even if the person misspelled and meant PS2, its debatable weather the PS2 Francshise are the most Successful... I mean what about Nintendo franchises they have been going for decade's and mario is probably the most successful Francsise ever...?

I'v also added some infomation (Which has been confirmed by Nintendo) about the revoultion as the guy only really chats about the PS3 and xBox...

--Junglist 15:36, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
 * The guy who wrote it up totally doesn't know what he's talking about :) Just do a blanket revert. If you read something you think was good, move it back, but most if not all of what he wrote was either incorrect, speculation, opinionated etc as you pointed out. K1Bond007 16:24, May 25, 2005 (UTC)
 * Additionally, FYI the name of this article is currently being discussed along with similar articles, e.g. 8-bit era to standarize the names of these articles. See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Computer and video games K1Bond007 16:27, May 25, 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, the Playstation in general does have the largest "rumor mill" which may be extrapolated into meaning that it has a larger fanbase. Other than that, his contributions do all seem to be false... --Wulf 00:24, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

Gizmondo? N-Gage?
Perhaps the Gizmondo and N-Gage QD should be added to this page? The former almost certainly does, as it has similar processing power capabilities to the DS and PSP plus a number of multimedia features. The latter is more akin to other phones, which probably do not belong on this page. I didn't want to just add willy-nilly without hearing other opinions, though. -- Plutor 16:26, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree with Gizmondo, but not so much for N-Gage QD. QD is just a redesign of the regular N-Gage right? Perhaps with added features, but it's not the actual "next-gen" of N-Gage? Theres supposed to be a new N-Gage announced this year last I heard. K1Bond007 17:35, May 26, 2005 (UTC)


 * Yeah the QD is a redesign of the N-Gage, its actuly not as good as N Gage tech wise but it looks far better and theres non of this "Side-Talking" business. There is a new line of N-Gages planed, but because Nokia is a phone manufacturer they are not releasing them in Generations but constaintly adding to the spec, kind of like the PC, the N-Gage range of games will soon be able to run on most of the phones nokia makes http://www.catharton.net/electronica/index.php?topic=20424.0 (the admin there is a n-gage fantic :P) --Junglist 22:04, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah, ok. Well I moved Gizmondo here, but I still don't think the QD has evolved much to consider it apart of this generation. What about the Tapwave Zodiac? Seems to fit more with 7th gen than 6th, but I don't know much about it. K1Bond007 23:37, May 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Nah, the Tapwave Zodiac is too old to be considered 7th. (although, tech-wise it is more like 7th than 6th...) --Wulf 22:51, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

Move Request

 * Because seventh generation era is overly generic, and for consistency with the other History of video games articles such as History of video games (32-bit / 64-bit era) 132.205.46.163 21:13, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Request fulfilled. Rob Church Talk 17:53, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Game Boy Micro?
I think the Game Boy Micro should be moved to the seventh generation because it was released in 2005. Thief Lord 14:44, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * This is why generations is really hard to do. The Game Boy Micro isn't a next-gen system. It's just a repackaging of a previously released system. The fact that it was released in 2005 doesn't necessarily make it apart of this generation. IMHO anyway. K1Bond007 03:51, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

However, the Micro is surely more than sufficiantly different from the GBA and SP ? (LordFenix 01:48, 17 January 2006 (UTC))

Its only different in its form factor. Internally its mostly the same. --BakugekiNZ 04:00, 19 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Indeed- for that same reason (despite it being still manufactured and sold until I believe up to a year ago), the redesigned PSOne isn't considered to be in the same generation of consoles as the PS2, Box and Cube. Daniel Davis 10:18, 30 January 2006 (UTC) (Doom127)

Page move
Someone moved the page again, supposedly according to wikipedia capitalization standards. It would be nice if people who did that would propose it here first, since it now leaves us with a whole bunch of redirected links again. I'm thinking I should just move it back, I mean other articles like History of video games (Sixth generation era) still use the old style. Thoughts? Jaco plane  01:07, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It doesn't really matter to me (for capitalization), but I do agree that a page move request should probably have been proposed first. K1Bond007 04:21, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

PSP Release Date
Someone keeps changing it to 2005. This is inaccurate- the PSP first became availiable on December 12, 2004. Daniel Davis 10:18, 30 January 2006 (UTC) (Doom127)

Merge comparison of seventh generation video game consoles
It is suggested that comparison of seventh-generation game consoles be merged with this - I agree - and suggest pasting the whole page in at the suggestion point.HappyVR 23:19, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. -- Nick RTalk 23:53, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I've merged them - not sure how this will go down. I think the article could need further tidying - I'll look at it again later and possibly do more.HappyVR 01:22, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

ps3 price compared to blu ray
Would you agree it is not going to be any cheaper than the cheapest blu-ray player? Currently $1K. Daniel.Cardenas 20:01, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

What?HappyVR 20:26, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

My memory is a little hazy but when PS2 was released it was more expensive than the cheapest CD rom players. If history repeats itself then the PS3 will be more expensive than the cheapest blu-ray players. http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news.php?newsId=2833 Daniel.Cardenas 20:32, 18 March 2006 (UTC)


 * (you mean DVD ROM ? - spelling) I can't confirm this for you - it seems obvious though that eventually BD players will cost less than a PS3. Also note that 'lifestyle' DVD players still cost more than a PS2 even though 'mass market' DVD players can be got for the same price as a PS2 game. These are different businesses and usually 'first adopter' products cost more than then equivalent later in the product lifestyle. Maybe a better comparison would be with the prices of the first commercially available DVD players (with PS2 intial price).

?????HappyVR 21:10, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, it seems the answer to this question has been solved. PS3=$499/$599. Blu-Ray=approx.$699.--LF2 00:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

comparison of 7th gen vid game console - price
The price of ps3 keeps getting changed - yet the edits never give any reason - since this is as far as I know all speculation shouldn't ps3 and revolution prices just say 'Unknown' in the table. Does anyone agree and want to change it?HappyVR 18:45, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, we should say "unknown". Also, one of the links provided as a "source" for the PS3 price is broken. Redxiv 23:33, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Revolution VGA out
http://cube.ign.com/articles/522/522559p2.html indicates that the revolution will support vga out. Have there been any other news reports otherwise?

Erm, none I've seen, although (I think) it's likely that VGA out (and possibly DVI) will be included - whether the leads to so do are supplied as standard is another matter.HappyVR 17:48, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Nintendo has announced that the system will be called the 'Wii' (as in 'we') and not the Revolution

Sega Lindberg
Hello ! Does the Sega really count? seing as it's not really a 'console' not very easy to 'buy' and not exactly 'next gen'. Has someone been having a 'funny day'?HappyVR 17:55, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Removed. Not a console. K1Bond007 21:27, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

The problem with x
This article makes inappropriate overuse of x. The following examples illustrate this. From the PlayStation 3 comparison,


 * x7 on Bluetooth 2.0, USB 2.0, Ethernet ports

From the Xbox 360 dimensions,


 * 12.15" x 10.15" x 3.27"

The first example (and all like it) should be reworded. Something like "7 devices over Bluetooth 2.0, USB 2.0 ports, Ethernet port(s)" could be used instead.

The second example (and all like it) is a (very common) typographical faux-pas. The times symbol, part of Unicode, ISO 8859, and Windows-1252, as well as supported by HTML 4, should be used instead. It can be inserted by the character entity &amp;times; or the numeric entities &amp;#xD7; or &amp;#215; and has a distinct appearance, which distinguishes it from x: 12.15 in &times; 10.15 in &times; 3.27 in.

Third, the use of the quotation mark (it is properly a double prime, but that's moot) to represent inches is uncommon outside of the United States. It also has a double meaning of minutes (1/60th of a degree) when using the degrees-minutes-seconds notation. The abbreviation "in.", the symbol "in", or the word "inches" should be used instead.

I will be more than willing to do this, but I would prefer a concensus about whether or not this would be an improvement first.&mdash;Kbolino 04:41, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Agree. The Bluetooth is for the controllers, and we know the number of USB 2.0 ports, same with Ethernet (AFAIK its Gigabit Ethernet). The dimensions... I guess so. I don't think its as important as the "x" issue. --BakugekiNZ 05:02, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes do it - and in general I don't think you would need to check on talk to make typographic changes.(Assuming you know that the changes you are making are right - and you know that.) However the use of " to represent inches is as far as I know - very common - in UK at least.HappyVR 17:24, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Good catch. Please proceed. Daniel.Cardenas 21:00, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Related Info
The "IGN: Microsoft's Xbox 360 vs. Sony PlayStation 3" supplies information I am quite sure is out of date. In one area it says the 360 has 80 billion shader operations per second compared to the PS3's 74.8 billion. That is quite different from the numbers the Wikipedia article displays. Which is incorrect, should the link be removed? Vibriante 19:18, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

The Stats
Can we please stick with what's confirmed? The "information" released by IGN should not be on there, mainly due to IGN's info needing five tonnes of salt a best. Confirmed hardware only. -137.186.165.143 22:59, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Length of the era
I heard somewhere that Ken Kutaragi said that it would be ten years from now that the PlayStation 4 will launch. Therefore, the seventh generation era will last longer than any previous gaming era. It would technically take longer to develop the eighth generation consoles. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 05:14, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Ken Kutaragi says a lot of things, few of them true. 128.226.230.60 12:07, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The eighth-generation consoles will take more time to develop than the seventh and previous generation consoles did, and Kutaragi is calling PlayStation 4 his "dream console." Henceforth, it is likely that the PlayStation 4 will launch in 2016 instead of 2011.  Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 07:13, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Umm, this is entirely speculation. First off gaming generations are not fixed dates, they last as long as the systems do, secondly Sony would lose so much money waiting that long to release its system . Even if they managed to remain ahead of the competition(doubtful) this time around, it would hardly help.   Lets stick to facts. 74.137.230.39 03:44, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Also, the third generation would be the longest lasting if there were "specific" dates. 74.137.230.39 03:53, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * There is no fixed length for console development. There is no proof on the financial effects of having a long gaming generation era, and I do not like it when someone tells me the financial effects without proving it.  There is no proof that there is financial pressure to accelerate console development.  The financial effects depend on the launch price.  The higher the launch price means the longer the gaming generation.  Such commercial technique is currently financially untested.  The sixth generation lasted quite longer than the fifth generation.  Console prices decrease as the gaming generations pass in time.  The launch price for the PS3 (US$499 for the 20GB version and US$599 for the 60GB version) is higher than the launch price of its predecessor the PS2 (which is US$299), and having to wait longer to release the PS4 is the reason for that price.  If you are correct on this matter, PS4 is still unlikely to be released in 2011, but it will most likely be released between 2012 and 2016.  The decision on console development depends on technological evolution.  Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 05:09, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I fail to see what this has to do with the article at all. This is all speculation. This generation will last as long as it lasts. The end of a console generation is not necessarily when the next console is released, nor does the beginning of a new console generation mean the last generation has instantly ended. According to the timeline, there were years between the end of the "second generation" and the dawn of the "third generation". In either case, we stick to verifiable facts. We won't know how long this generation will be until it ends. Dancter 13:58, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * the years between the end of the second gen and the beginning of the third gen are due to the video game market crash. some aregue that the second gen continues on through that time.J.L.Main 02:00, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Started in 2004?
What kicked of the 7th gen in late 2004?CDiddles
 * Yeah, that seems like a mistake, especially when the article mentions later that the 7th gen started with the launch of the 360 in late 2005. I'll change it Rodeosmurf 03:07, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually it was the launch of the DS and PSP that kicked off the seventh generation cosole wars, so I'll change it back.Imaninjapirate 20:16, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Since when handhelds are considered as belonging to the "main console war"? One thing is the console, and another the handheld war (Ugh, I hate talking about a war). -- ReyBrujo 20:50, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Flops - why bother even including them?
Any developer or hardware expert worth their salt know that single precision FLOPS are not a useful estimation of a gaming system's capabilities. It's marketting drivel and little else. I recommend the mentioning of FLOPS be removed on that basis. - Walshicus
 * Agree. Daniel.Cardenas 20:16, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The FLOPS in GPU section of table don't even use the same metric - making even attempts at comparison difficult. However by the same reasoning much of the data in GPU and CPU sections of the comparison table would have to go also.HappyVR 20:25, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * True. Perhaps include the data with a disclaimer warning that it's mostly marketting bunk? - Walshicus
 * You mean we have to get rid of more meaningless deceptive numbers? --Can Not 21:35, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Independant software support
Bit dubious about the last section in the table 'Supports independant software developers' - this has to be shown.. Also nintendo have given some suggestion that they may 'help' independant software developers in terms of the virtual console. In the absence of any reason for keeping this section I would tend to remove it sometime in the future.HappyVR 20:25, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * There is a reference given. Makes it verifiable.  Wikipedia criteria is verifiable, not "shown". Daniel.Cardenas 21:01, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Bit specific though isn't it....HappyVR 21:04, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you are suggesting it is a worthless criteria. If you look back and see what made the PC successful it was software.  Opening up the platform will allow much more software to be available.  For example: home automation software, home security, xchat, free education software, etc...  I don't think it is specific.  It think it is a boom for Sony and it is ultimately going to make the their platform hugely successful.  What do you think? Daniel.Cardenas 21:07, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Not exactly what I was thinking - It's hardly a neutral question in one sense is it? How about a section 'available at present' or 'supports cordless pointing device natively'? The PS2 linux wasn't exactly great, and I remember sony's insistance that the PS2 was a computer hence the inclusion of 'YABASIC' on the demo disk - how good was that? Sorry to be negative on this point, however what I was suggesting that it's one sided to have this as a question when I think other questions of similar or equal importance could be asked - how about a more subtle section such as 'operating system details' or 'bundled software'?HappyVR 21:16, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think neutral is an issue. The criteria should be based on what is important.  'available at present' is already there as release date.  You can rename that criteria if you want.  'supports cordless pointing device natively' you would have to make a case why people should be interested.  Perhaps it should be there.  In terms of software, that will make or break a system.  If there is a ton of software for one system, especially free software, that will definately be more interesting then a platform with more more limiting choices.  The comparison is not there to be neutral.  It is there to point out strengths and weaknesses of each choice.  Daniel.Cardenas 21:24, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I think having a non neutral question is against the 'neutral point of view' criteria, and the question is very specific - what about simply asking 'programmable' - this probably gives the same answers - and if for example Microsoft decide to release a fortran programming package for the xbox then that could be included - my objection is that the question is weighted.HappyVR 21:46, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Programmable sounds good to me. Should it say freely programmable? Xbox is programable as long as you sign a license agreement with Microsoft and agree to pay them royalties. Daniel.Cardenas 23:07, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I think programmable in the terms you seemed to be suggesting for the PS3 ie free or by a standard software purchase - I'm not certain about exact details - I would say for free (or possibly after a small initial purchase - not more than the price of a standard game). However most software often includes some sort of license agreement - governing its use - especially when the software is intended to be used for profit. I wouldn't count a nintendo dev kit as programmable in this sense - even if it is cheap - it needs to be standard hardware and in a 'consumer software price range'. How about 'programmability supported for end user (or consumer)'- clearly it shouldn't include programmability for developers - thats not the point - or equal meaning description - that seems to cover it in a fair way.HappyVR 23:52, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, finding it difficult to get words... Put thinking cap on now. I think the heading should be split into two: 1. Operating system - obviously this includes Linux and also the Xbox 360 Dashboard as well as the cross media bar 2. Programmability. This should include any consumer orientated programmabilty options (and not developer orientated) obviously this includes the C tools for the PS3, don't think it has to be an exhaustive list - no doubt PowerPC language support under linux is quite extensive. I've made this change - hope it's ok - will need padding out with the correct information probably.HappyVR 00:27, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure about the value of the O.S. section but the customer programmable criteria looks good. Daniel.Cardenas 15:59, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

PS3's controller input
What's the standing on the number of PS3 controllers via Bluetooth? Some sources say that it can hold up to seven at once (due to how Bluetooth works), however it looks as if games will only support four players. The latest prototype controller has 4 LED's for player indication. -th1rt3en 05:03, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm just as in the dark as anyone else. Everything I've seen that says the support is for up to four controllers seems to be speculation based on the fact that there are only four LEDs, and the stuff that says it can support up to seven controllers is based on pretty old press information. That press release I linked to is a year old. Sony's recent press material, on the other hand, is curiously silent on the issue. I figured it was safer to go with the "7" number for now, because it's the last thing Sony said about it. Dancter 07:58, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

its 4 at the moment, with a possibility of 6 if the can get it fixed in timeOwwmykneecap 18:28, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Eighth Generation?
Should a speculative article be started regarding the partially-inevitable Eighth Generation of Video Game consoles? What do you think?  dogman15 05:11, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
 * No. Scheduled events should be included if the event is notable and almost certain only per 1st speculation policy. With no specific dates or participants, it is only speculation. -- ReyBrujo 05:16, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
 * We had one, and then we removed it because there was nothing of substance there bar a minor Nintendo promise to offer HD. - Walshicus

Well, there will be an 8th generation (unless the world ends or World War 3 starts) but so far there has been no info (that I'm aware of) released about it, so it would just be a blank article, it would probably be better to wait until some information regarding the 8th generation comes out, then create the article. Shadoom1 23:47, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Isn't the current generation expected to last all the way until 2012? --164.107.92.120 06:04, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * about 2012, you can go back and look, video game generations last from about 5 to 6 years, so gen. 8 will probably start between 2010 and 2012. i know that Sony wants gen. 7 to last till like 2015, but it ain't gona happen.  and a an 8th gen article wouldn't be blank, it would say, "the eighth generation of video games will probably begin somewhere between 2010 and 2014.  It will most likely include the Wii 2, the Xbox 3 and the Play station 4.  This of course is not certain and may not be comprehensive.  Also the names are pure speculation as no information has yet been released, exept for a possible mention of the wii 2 having HD capabilities.  It has been speculated that the Xbox3 will include a camera capable of tracking the movement of its users and not just the controller. (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6145348.html?page=2) Microsoft may also include other aspects of the TouchLight in the Xbox 3 if not completely incorporating the TouchLight into the Xbox 3. (http://news.com.com/1606-2_3-6096513.html)  However this is highly unlike given the cast of the TouchLight which will initially cast upwards of $60,000 (http://www.techweb.com/wire/software/190900007).  It is far more likely that this technology will be included in the ninth or tenth generation."  wow, i didn't realizes i had so much to say on that subject.  but i guess you are still right, it shouldn't be created till there are some definite facts.  at least until some one announces something... anything. J.L.Main 09:37, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * there has been official information anounced on the eight generation. Sony has confermed that there will be a PS4 and that it will be released after 2010. i'm going to wait untill one other peice of information is aunced conserning any console and then create the artical.  i have already created it under my profile, i just need to copy and paist now.  click on my name to read what i have so far.J.L.Main 08:48, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * i created it. there is now an artical on the eighth generation.J.L.Main 06:58, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Inconsistent specs on GPU
I've noticed that the GPU specs between on the Xbox 360 wiki entry and this one differ quite a bit. For example this page has 9b dot products, the other 24b. This page also shows 48b shader ops and the Xbox 360 entry has 80b. Anyone know which is correct?vortex 04:34, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

The Official Xbox Website has these numbers- "48 billion shader operations per second" "9.6 billion dot product operations per second" http://www.xbox.com/en-AU/support/xbox360/manuals/xbox360specs.htm I believe false GPU specs for the 360 were displayed on a website a while ago to make people think the 360 was "more powerful" then the PS3, and those numbers have since spread. Vibriante 16:15, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * And offical sources are great... but the 9.6 billion dot products only refers to CPU, not GPU as it states in the wiki. If the numbers can't be confirmed one way or the other they really should be removed.vortex 17:01, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Franchises started
I'm not sure if these next gen titles should be considered "franchises," when most haven't been released and there's no guarantee of a sequel or spinoff. Mario is a franchise, Project HAMMER is not. (Which raises a side question: can puzzle games really be franchises?)

Perhaps another term should be used? "Original IPs launched"? Navstar 06:22, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree that these are not franchises yet. I mean, most of the games listed haven't even been released yet. How can you call it a franchise when they're still in the future? ~ Oni Lukos ct 21:44, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Really, more than half of the games listed in the "franchise" category are single games. I fail to see how a game that doesn't even have a sequel yet can be called a "franchise." I'm going to do some minor cleaning here.

Specs moved to individual console entries
I think most would agree that lining up specs across three such wildly different architectures does not provide any useful comparison. Each spec sheet should belong at each console's individual Wiki entry. It's the same reason handheld specs are not listed -- they don't make any sense comparing them. If handheld specs are not listed, then neither should consoles. Navstar 06:20, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Size comparison pic?
Can someone make a picture similar to this one? Or can we just copy it into the article? WP 03:43, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think it is really useful for the article. Besides, final specifications for Wii and PS3 aren't still specified, so sizes may change. Once they are released, it may be easy to get such picture. -- ReyBrujo 04:30, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

EVO?
What about the EVO? They announced it July 11 http://www.envizionsinc.com/products.htm

Now honestly, nobody expects it to sell at all, but shouldn't it still count as a seventh gen console? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.245.122.194 (talk • contribs) 01:23, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't include it, it doesn't seem like a legit console to me. --CanesOL79 03:33, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it should. Even if did doesn't make much of a sells gross it is still a console that is being released in the seventh gen. Plus they are already taking pre-orders, so this is NOT going to be another Phantom console/software.--Jt_200075 7:57 PM, September 15 2006 (UTC)


 * The majority of the arguments agasit have been archived to save space. The summary was that it's not a console because they call it one. It runs Windows Media Center edition (as do PCs from Dell/Acer/HP/IBM/Apple etc...). It's ability to play games is limited to PC games, it is not a seperate platform.vortex 22:20, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed. So why is the picture still in the article? It isn't mentioned at all and aside from the fact that it's not a separate platform, it's an extreme fringe machine. This hardly needs to be mentioned between Xbox 360, Wii and PS3, despite how much the developers/fans might like that. 81.58.34.171 13:01, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, you should at least add the HyperScan to that category as it is available on Walmart and other websites and it is essentially a console and it's by Mattel, a company that has produced console systems in the past. --164.107.92.120 19:51, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I would at least add it as an "other" or something. --Hemto 16:19, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree, an Other category would be a good compromise. --172.131.28.132 01:25, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * It's a 7th gen console or it's not... Classifing it as a "other" 7th gen console is just a sneeky what of getting it included. Also no-one has ever stated WHY it should be considered a console above any other MCE PC apart from a bit advertising from the company.vortex 02:15, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to revert again, I'll await other editors view points but I think that the Hyperscan should be put back as a "real" console, the "Other" heading removed along with the EVO. I don't see why we should base this artical on an advertising ploy (in that the EVO is being called a console) when it has no better claim then any other MCE PC.vortex 02:15, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * i think that the hyperscan should be placed as a legitamit console. but i agree the other section is a good compramise.  An alternative would be to distinguish between mainsteam consoles and non-mainstream consoles.  the second includeing the ones that aren't very noticable or have little claim to being a console.  personaly i would include the Evo also, as by my understanding it is supposted to have games released for it, but i would need to verify this.J.L.Main 02:08, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * You would be wrong about the EVO, the games are just "bundled" versions of existing PC games, in fact the entire systems could be bought off the shelf from your local PC retailer including controllers and biometrics. vortex 02:41, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Legit console or not - it exists - and released in the same era as other consoles in this article. I personally did not know about EVO until right now - but after looking at its Wiki article, and a picture - it is a gaming console, even though it is remotely known. KyuuA4 17:00, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

RF Adapters
I have been told that this generation of consoles will not have RF adapters to connect to VHF. Is this true? If so, perhaps it is worth mentioning under a technical specifications heading. Stovetopcookies 14:14, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * You can buy official RF cables for PS2 and Xbox. Dreamcast has these cables available by thirdies. For Gamecube you should buy an adaptor RCA->VHF.

It's nonsense to include handhelds in this
it really isOwwmykneecap 18:27, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Why? mrholybrain 's talk 02:57, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Final Fantasy XIII/Mega Man ZX
These should be removed from the "New Franchises" section since they are NOT new franchises, they are just new series in existing franchises(Final Fantasy and Mega Man). If no one objects, I will do it tomorrow. TJ Spyke 05:38, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Mattel Hyperscan
Okay, maybe it's not technically impressive or well-known, but it's technically a console (It plays CD-based games made specifically for the console) Should it be included?
 * Yes, it should. And so should the Evo: Phase 1. --Mycroft.Holmz 23:06, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Calling it a 7th generation console it probably pushing it a bit... it's technicaly a antique but I'm not going to argue the point. The Evo Phase 1 on the other hand is just a Windows Media PC and should NOT be added to the console section. One has to wonder if some of the people who edit this page work for Evo or somthing :(vortex 00:22, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * They probably do lol, but I'd say HS is seventh gen. When it comes to technology it's probably fourth-generation or less, but console generations are decided by the time that the console is released, not horsepower. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.12.116.196 (talk • contribs).


 * I agree; add this baby! :) --164.107.92.120 19:51, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Strong agree/add for me to. This console should be includedsky. --Hemto 16:20, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, definitely keep this important system in the article (after all Mattel is part of video game history with its Intellivision systems). If you need/want to make an Other category for this and the evil as a compromise, that's fine by me. --172.131.28.132 01:26, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The new Other section looks great and matches up well with the above Consoles section, especially by having three Consoles and three Others. The appearance of that section of the page has a great parallel structure now.  Bravo!  Happy Halloween! --172.163.63.151 12:55, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Sales figures comparison
I would be very wary about using the nexgenwars data. They have not published how they are getting their figures and although they look sensible given the listed number of 360s sold as of September and how many consoles were said to be shipped by Nintendo and Sony at launch (it would be a fair bet that both will sell out), it seems unlikely that they would be able to get sales data quickly enough to update the site every few seconds. It seems most likely that these are simply counters which are just put up to attract visitors to the site and therefore ad revenue from the google adverts on the site. 90.194.133.191 02:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I've emailed them for details. --  Argash  |  talk  |  contribs  06:43, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Here is the reply i recieved:


 * Sounds to like it's part math part conjecture and trying to be as accurate as he can with the given data set. --  Argash  |  talk  |  contribs  00:16, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * They are not reliable, so we can't include them. We can, however, include articles from reliable sources that use nexgenwars as reference. -- ReyBrujo 20:13, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The 360 has sold more than 8 millions consoles as of 12/05/2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.44.37.164 (talk • contribs) 04:28, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * This seems nonsense to me. If some reliable source refers to nexgenwars, this reference is then unreliable. --Marc Lacoste 15:51, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


 * That is how our guidelines and policies work. -- ReyBrujo 16:02, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Future product & citerequired templates
So now all of the 7gen consoles have officially been released in some parts of the world, shouldn't the future product template be removed?

Also, are the areas labelled with cite needed really required? I mean it pretty obvious this gen of consoles are more competition for each other then previous times, and there is no official line drawn of when a new generation starts, it's just when the next version comes out; you don't need a citation to say the moon is round it's just common sense, this is the same principle. Auxfusion 11:46, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

number of Wiis sold?
The number of Wii sold has been deleated and so have all the refrence links, where did they go? 203.24.137.199 02:34, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * nexgenwars.com is not a reliable source, thus it can't be used as a reference. In example, it is not different from someone creating a Geocities page and uploading his own estimations. -- ReyBrujo 03:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with this, one day the site was reporting 700,000 Wiis were sold, the next day it was down to 400,000. Several websites across the internet reported the amount incorrectly due to this.  Namely, playfuls.com the website that is now being used as a reference. -- Someone13 10:13, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Fixed Errors
There were some pretty bad grammar and spelling errors in the first paragraph, I didn't bother going any further, as I don't have the time. Might be something to read though though. Shadic 05:26, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

RV Console War, XBOX 360 paragraph, Nintendo paragraph, Lock?
The recently added Xbox 360 paragraph is full of pov and nonsensical statements like "Their most successful first-party game, Halo 3 is expected to come out in 2007", The nintendo paragraph seems to be filled with random claims and excessive links from competing company Gizmodo's website, and the first paragraph in the console war section says "over $100 million with both PlayStations" when the sixth generation article lists 106.23 million playstation2 units shipped, with a selling price of $100.00-$300.00. I dont have time to go back, find the edits and fix it right now, perhaps this article should be locked while it's still a hot topic?

At any rate this article is in a very sorry state at the moment. Drn8 10:36, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The offending edits seem to be from 69.116.73.220, as well as the errors fixed by subsequent edits so I RV'd to the last version by ReyBrujo Drn8 10:36, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * PLease, will someone create an article and upload a picture for the FC Twin Video game System? Thanks, --164.107.92.120 17:45, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

PS3 Sales completely wrong
It's since been released in the USA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.240.16.221 (talk • contribs)
 * We don't have reliable sources for US sales information. There are around 124,000 units sold in Japan as of last week. But we only add verifiable information, not made up numbers. -- ReyBrujo 17:21, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Is the PlayStation 3 expected to sell more over the long-term than the Xbox 360s and Wiis? --164.107.92.120 00:13, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * We do not have a crystal ball, sorry. -- ReyBrujo 01:41, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * God, I wish you did! :) --164.107.92.120 06:59, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

According to Gamespot News, the number of units sold at launch for the PS3 is 500,000 total units. Gamespot News —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.160.165.63 (talk • contribs) 19:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Can we get shipment and sales figures for the DS and/or PSP?
It's ridiculous we've got incomplete information (possibly due to fanboyism) and can't compare the two directly. DS article gives sales and PSP article gives shipped. Go figure. It's obvious the DS is doing better, but it'd be nice to know how better. Trip: The Light Fantastic 22:12, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed, and the data is crazily out of date! Tphi 14:20, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Two other newly released game console systems that really need to go in that excellent others category
FC Twin Video Game System and Game Wave Family Entertainment System For the latter, see http://boardgames.about.com/b/a/229901.htm Best, --24.154.173.243 21:08, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey, I'm not sure how to make an article myself, but here's some information for the future article on the FC Twin: http://ultimateconsoledatabase.com/famiclones/FC_twin.htm Best, --164.107.92.120 22:01, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, please add the above consoles and the Evo: Phase one to at least the Other category. Thanks! :) --Wikipedian, Historian, and Friend? 21:10, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Only if you can provide a good reason why a PC running Windows Media center edition, playing PC games should be added as a console and the dozerns of other MCE PC should not. vortex 21:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Because the EVO claims to be a console and features controllers and looks like a console. Heck, even the PS2 had internet access and the possibility for a keyboard.  --24.154.173.243 01:23, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Well actualy the company site claims it's a PC, it runs a PC Operating System (Windows XP Home MCE), it uses PC controllers. So again... why is it a video game console above any OTHER simular PC? Also like PCs it features regular specification upgrades (they state that on the web-site) and I expect as soon as Vista comes out they will update the OS too that. In other words it's not a static platform which is the one of the distinguishing features of video game consoles. vortex 02:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * All the pictures make it look like a console rather than a PC . . .--Wikipedian, Historian, and Friend? 23:34, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * So does the Apple mini and any number of Micro/Mini ATX cases (see Morex and Acer lines). Envizions even state that the EVO Phase one is NOT a console but a media hub. This is taken from their FAQ "11. Is EVO a game console? Not yet.". They are intending to have console like features in phase 2, but given that phase 1 is badly over-due who knows when phase 2 will be released. It's almost certain the existing hardware will be out of date by then, so you will probably have to buy a new EVO at anyrate. vortex 23:54, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps, but it's close enough to be considered an "other" at least. I would like to see the Game Wave and FC Twin added in some manner or other.  I acually ordered an FC Twin, so if I take a picture and upload it, would we be able to add that picture to the FC Twin article?  Best, --Wikipedian, Historian, and Friend? 15:29, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps?? The EVO is not a console at ALL! Even the manufactuer states that. If you can actualy come up with a valid argument for including the EVO p1 which DOESN'T also apply to all MCE PCs then I will add it my self! Frankly I'm still at a loss how you can have an "other" 7th gen vidio console any way... it's 7th gen, or it's not. vortex 01:55, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * its a compermise. some people don't want the hyperscanner includedand some do.  also, while the artical is titled seventh gen consoles its actually about all seventh gen systems.  which raises the question, if non-consoles like the Nintendo virtual boy and all those handhelds are being included than why not the Evo?  it hooks up to your TV and you use a controler to play games on it.  what else is needed for it to mearet being called a seventh gen system?J.L.Main 04:02, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * If the EVO is added, then so can every other MCE based PC (they are basicaly identical after all), and then every PC (It's the same OS and most can connect to TVs), and then my mobile phone (as a handheld!), my set-top box (which plays games) etc... At which point the entire artical gets deleted because it's junk :( If people want to add their fav toy to wikipedia then they are free to do so... but at a minimum they could at least get the context correct and only put it in the relivent articals. If it isn't a "video game consoles (seventh generation)" then it shouldn't be in this artical... simple as that. There are acticals on media players/portals which would be glad to have the EVO added, and which are highly relivent. vortex 05:51, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * your cellphone? well i guess you do hold it in your hands and you do play games on it. you know, maybe it should be added.  it seems to meet the requirements of a handheld.  put it in!!
 * seriously, thats one of the worse slipery slopes ever. the EVO is pretty close to a gaming console.  wait. didn't we already vote on this nd decide against? J.L.Main 06:24, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * So were did you want my cell-phone?? Technicaly it's probably too old to be considered a 7th gen console though I am getting a new one soon. Seriously the slope between EVO and PC (MCE) is very, very slight... I can't think any any argument you could use against one that wouldn't equaly apply to the other. And it's a slope I don't see why we have to go down. I'm not sure it was an offical vote per say but a number of months ago it was decided by a number of editors that the EVO was evicted vortex 06:35, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * it should probably go under the generation that was in progress when yo got it. perhaps we shoudl come up with a definition that is more exclusive than the one under wiktionary, "A dedicated electronic device that is designed to play video games, especially in accompaniment with a television."  or come up with a better deffinition for video games, "A style of game existing as and controlled by software, usually run by a video game console or a computer, and played on a video terminal or television screen. Controlled by a paddle, joystick, mouse, cursor keys or a combination of any of these input devices."  as acording to these, it is a video game console, along with your cell phone. J.L.Main 06:56, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

xgp?
the xgp does not currently exist. i'm not really sure it should be listed at all. if at some point it sees some sort of release (physical rather than press!) then it can be added.24.151.24.216 23:38, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Confirmed European PS3 launch date?
The article says the PS3 is being released on the 7th March. Is this confirmed or just speculation? - Auxfusion 12:40, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Atari Flashback? And why not the Sega Mega Drive PlayTV 6-in-1?
If a system with retro games built-in as the Atari Flashback volume systems does count, then the Sega Mega Drive PlayTV 6-in-1 (also known as Play TV Legends Sega Genesis) should also, doesn't it? Because it's the same exact type of system than the Atari Flashback one, with a bunch Mega Drive games built-in. If not, I think the Atari Flashback should be removed then. Mr Wesker 22:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Shoot, if anything, add the other one to. Let's be inclusive, see. --24.154.173.243 01:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * if we are going to be "inclusive" than we should list the PSone amongst the sixth gen consoles. after all it was just a redisign of a previous console, no different from the flashbacks. J.L.Main 03:57, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Sounds good to me; list it! :) --24.154.173.243 21:05, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
 * your quite happy to list anything aren't you? and if you are going to keep posting you really shoudl crat an account.J.L.Main 06:43, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I also think that we should be inclusive and comprehensive. The other category is a great idea for putting items that claim to be consoles, but don't necessarily represent breakthrough technology.  I'd like to see the FC Twin added, because it's the first Famiclone to actually play both NES and SNES games.  AND it's readily available.  Type in FC Twin on ebay and you'll just about crap your pants when you see how many are listed!  In any case, way more easily available than the Tristar/Super 8 or Tristar 64, which I have yet to see on ebay or for sale anywhere else on the webarama. Best, --Wikipedian, Historian, and Friend? 23:32, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe a "retro" topic should be created. After many of these are just re-releases of old consoles. If they had made there own platform or own technology (even if it's "old" new technology) then fair enough, but mostly they are just taking a old console and re-producing it. vortex 23:59, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * i think that is far compromise. having an "other" section for actual seventh gen consoles with pre-seventh gen tech. and than a "retro" for re-releases of pre-seventh gen consoles. J.L.Main 03:26, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I would be cool with that, i.e. two categories, one "other," one "retro." Best, --172.130.38.176 15:24, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * ok, i want to get one more person to say they like and then i will make the change. i don't want it to become a huge fight like the wiimote argument on the wii talk page.J.L.Main 23:56, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * actually, how about “remakes” and other? “remakes” sounds better as an encyclopedic term than retro does.J.L.Main 00:01, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Sounds fine to me. However it should be "7th" gen console, not 5/6th gen that are still being made otherwise we will have hundreads of the things. vortex 01:12, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, are we more interested in the techonology or the chronology, i.e. when systems are released versus what's in 'em? Best, --Wikipedian, Historian, and Friend? 03:40, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


 * well, thats the point. it was first released bac in the second generation. its just being rereleased in the seventhJ.L.Main 04:08, 13 December 2006 (UTC)