Talk:Seventh generation of video game consoles/Archive 2

wheres the bits??
6th generation was 128 bits is 7th generation 256 bits?? this article is missing what the prior articles discus the bits. damn it the bits!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.25.105.53 (talk) 01:57, 14 December 2006 (UTC).


 * It's missing because it's not relevant, and because it's just wrong. The 6th generation was not 128bits, and the 7th generation is certainly not 256 bits. It would be more correct to say that the 6th was 32bit and the 7th is 64bit anyhow. vortex 02:40, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

PS3 : 64-bit PPC engine; 7 X 128Bit SPE; 256Bit GPU XBOX360 : 64-bit PPC engine; 512Bit GPU Wii : UNKNOWN most likely CPU: 32- bit ; 256 bit GPU

NB: increase in process word length above around 24-bit is not as important to system speed (very few CPU ops will use greater than 32-bit length), the important factors are CACHE-SIZE, CLOCK-SPEED, BUS-SPEED, ARCHITECTURE (all PPC in this case), CORE QUANTITY (Wii: 1 PS3: 1 + 7 SPEs (more like pixel pipes in a graphics card) 360: 3 ) high word length does make a difference in a GPU (more colours more complex shapes, draw distance anywhere where the ops require large maths, over 256-bit currently is not implemented often but for future sprawling worlds it will be a large factor 81.101.118.64 18:17, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

False data on sales
Somebody have put in false data to the "sales" table (stating that 100000 million Wii units were sold while only one PS3 was sold) Aceman2000 05:54, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

While I typed this, the table was repaired :D Aceman2000 05:55, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Sales chart Information
People keep changing the sales chart info, visiting this page is confusing me. I went to this site provided by the link http://www.vgcharts.org/ngwars.php?topic=1 and it states that the saled have gone up. Which is true? The original info or this one? CanCanDuo 15:27, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Those sales figures from vgcharts.org are correct. someone should change the sales info to what is shown in these charts. gatojo 11:16, 24 December 2006 (GMT) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.144.181.105 (talk • contribs).
 * No, they shouldn't. VGCharts is not a reputable source. - A Link to the Past (talk) 08:31, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Wii sales seem to be incorrect
According to nextgenwars.com, there's roughly 1.8 million Wiis sold worldwide (Give or take due to fluctuations and computing errors), much more than the one million Wikipedia states.

72.138.179.83 18:28, 24 December 2006 (UTC) 24/12/06 Joe S.
 * nexgenwars.com is not a reliable source for us. We need a reliable source, and the one we have states one million. -- ReyBrujo 18:48, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Hyperscan
Hyperscan.jpg has been deleted. Don't add it to the gallery section. There are three options: upload a new image, leave it out of the gallery, or convert it to prose. I chose the third option. -- ReyBrujo 17:24, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Get the hypercrap off of here. We might as well add the V-Smile and Leapster, as well as 3rd generation Tamogotchis


 * the "hypercrap" as you call it meats all the criteria of a videogame system. it has controlers, conects to a tv, and has games made specificaly for it.  there is no logical reason to discard it.  if we were to follow your argument than we would have to discard the super NES from the fourth generation as it had less than half the power of its weakest competator.J.L.Main 02:38, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Are you KIDDING! THis kyparscan is a TOY! Its had, what, 3 games made for it, and none being devoloped. Not to mention it is totally craptastic. You know what, the V-Smile meets ALL the criteria, and so does the Leapster. OMG, So does the iPod?!?!?!?!!!!

Hypercrap isnt selling anyways. Its dumb, and its a TOY! a TOY! Would you call the craptistic piece of shiz a TOY or a VIDEO GAME.

Hyperscan sucks BALLS as big as APPLES. No, wait. WATERMELONS!!!!

Hypercrap SUCKS, its NOT a true VIDEO GAME, tis made by some really really game-sucky toy company!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gerbilfyed4 19:58, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I've never seen an argument so comprehensively riveting and convincing before. --140.159.2.31 00:07, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The Hyperscan and Leapster are cheesy consoles you would metaphorically find in a box of Cracker Jacks. The Wii, 360, and PS3 are not. It is not necessary to remove the "hypercrap", but I believe it is necessary to seperate them.--Can Not 21:06, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

VG Charts.org
Are they reliable? CeeWhy2 00:17, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * "Despite this, the data on VG Charts is unofficial and in some cases incomplete." I read their site and looked them up on other sites.  from what i see there data shouldn't be much greater than the actual amounts but my be significantly less.  either way it looks to be closer than what we have now.  i would use them.J.L.Main 02:34, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * VGCharts.org is considered not reliable. See discussions at here, here and the full Talk:List of best-selling computer and video games. -- ReyBrujo 04:05, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

nexgenwars.com
Shouldn't the numbers of how much consoles were sold come from here?66.72.98.179 03:30, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
 * No, we prefer using more better and more reliable sources. -- ReyBrujo 21:55, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Nextgenwars is not a reliable source, it says on the site that the numbers are only estimates 220.253.93.163 04:05, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

After that it says that the numbers are constantly monitored and updated. Do you think they're getting the numbers out of the air or something? Doubt it. By the way, the PS3 links for sales has nothing to say about the number of consoles that have been sold through April 2007. One was written about December 2006 sales and the other appears to talk about Japanese sales alone. On nexgenwars.com they have a nice explanation of what numbers they use to calculate their scores as well.

Archive old comments
I think that the comments about PS3, Xbox360, and Wii that were written before November 17th, should be archived because it's tempting to add a comment to them, besides, that series of comments was from the speculation phase of the 7th-generation of consoles. Now, everybody knows the true information about all the consoles, so the articles about people's thoughts prior to the release of PS3 are useless and might give an unknowing person false information. Also, archiving old comments would make the discussion page less confusing and more organized.--LF2 00:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

CELL Specs
3.2 GHZ + 7 3.2 GHZ SPES? I've heard it's "just" 3.2 GHZ + 7 32 mhz SPES, allthough this is quite alot of power too.

It's 1x 3.2GHz PPE + 7x 3.2GHZ SPEs.--LF2 00:23, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Shipped VS. Sold
Is there ever going to be an accurate source that can tell us what has shipped to stores vs what has actually sold? I'm looking at the sales chart on this page and it just lists N/A for one category and an exact figure for the others on all three systems.

Wouldn't it make more sense just to use the sourceable figures and drop one of the columns? If really necessary, we could put a sentence in explaining that some companies count shipped and some count sold... if we can find a good source for it.

I propose just dropping the "Units Shipped" column from the chart and listing all three consoles claims in the same category. --Measure 05:59, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Prices
Why does the nintendo wii have the prices for diferent regions, yet the others dont??? Surely in a table like this the information provided for each should be the same. Mattyatty 10:27, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree. I added the Wii GBP prices a while back, I'm sure I added more than the price of the RGB cable and console though... I notice there are PS3 prices in GBP also now, and Euros have been added to Wii. Perhaps someone would like to add to these prices, I admit that whilst they are correct, I didn't do a thorough job and add every available accessory price.
 * Also, seeing as Sony and Nintendo are both Japanese companies, wouldn't Yen be the most logical "primary" currency for this table? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.86.138.193 (talk) 00:57, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

Wii Sensor Bar Port
Does this count as an I/O port even though it only provides power and no actual information is exchanged? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by -Vcelloho 03:44, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Because no one has commented I am just going to go ahead and change it. -Vcelloho 17:54, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good. Jecowa 18:54, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

No it doesnt, it is simply a power supply for the 2 groups of 5 IR LEDS in the Sensor Bar it is as much I/O as much as the power adaptor 81.101.118.64 18:17, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I really don't think so according to everything that I've read about I/O Ports information must be exchanged. The wii sensor bar port exchanges no information and is therfore not an I/O port http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input/output -Vcelloho 02:24, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

PS3 HDMI cable
It says $50, but they are readily availible for $10~ for 6ft. What's this $50 business about?

Evo: Phase One
This really isn't a video game console, it's just a PC marketed as a console. It's even running Windows XP and only plays computer games. As far as I can tell there's no difference between it and a regular PC. --Calibas 02:02, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 * we already had this debate. the final compromise was to place it as an "other." J.L.Main 11:00, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Wii Specs
The Wii Specs are all speculative Nintendo have not confirmed ANYTHING!! the current specs originate form IGN (in an article in which they have tagged on that fact that these specs are basically educated guesses)

IMHO we should remove ALL unconfirmed Wii Specs (in the interest of accuracy -- it is this sort of foolhardy activity that makes wikipedia a false source in the opinions of a lot of educational institutions)

The detailed specs should be replaced with all thats confirmed (e.g. under processor simply put 'IBM Power architecture -- low voltage' 'Codename: Broadway' ) 81.101.118.64 18:07, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Playstation 3 and DVD formats
Perhaps I glanced over this, but I didn't see if in the article it's mentioned whether or not PS3s play BOTH DVDs and Blue Ray Discs. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 00:32, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Though It Does ... Quantifiable fact does not require citation

Handheld systems
some 1 need add Handheld systems to the article they were remove by 20:23, 24 February 2007 Therealthing1224 Handheld systems that are seventh generation need to be in article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andri12 (talk • contribs)
 * The rationale was that a handheld is not a console. Just64helpin 17:41, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Backward compatability
The backward compatability comparisons in the table are misleading. The following is from the XBox portion: "Selected Xbox games (~99%), additions made with software updates"

This is the PS3: "Most Playstation and Playstation 2 titles (~98%); future firmware updates will provide more compatibility.[9]"

Now, I'm assuming those percentages in the parentheses are supposed to be Italic texthow compatibleItalic text the "compatible" games are, but the way it reads now the percentages have no context and it makes it seem like that's the percent of all games that the systems are compatible with. I don't know about the PS3 but I own a 360 (and don't get me wrong, I'm a huge 360 fan), and there is no way it is backward compatible with 99% of the games, hence "selected titles".

Frankly, I don't even think these percentages are meaningful. I mean if I'm right and it is how compatible the games are, how do you define that? The number of bugs? Whether the game actually works? I don't find two near-100% statistics all that meaninful anyway, even relative to each other, so this to me is just purely bad and I'm removing the parenthetical percentages. Please, if you want them back, find a way to put the statistic in the proper context so we know what we're talking about.Every name is taken12345 05:19, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Misleading Table?
Is there a reason why the "units sold" section is complete and the "units shipped" section only mentions the PS3? How many 360s and Wiis have been shipped? Why is this column even in existence? If Ford ships 10,000,000 F150s and sells 7,500,000 and Toyota ships 3,000,000 Tundras and sells 2,500,000, which truck is more popular? The "units shipped" information does not accurately portray how well a particular item is competing with another one. All it shows is how well the manufacturer is doing at producing and distributing them. If no one objects I will remove the column.J.delanoy 18:14, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sony likes to only say how many units they have shipped so as to make it look like there stuff is selling better than it actually is. the column should remain since the information is easier to come by and more reliable than information on the number of PS3s sold.J.L.Main 09:33, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

New Citations Desperately Needed
While we are on the subject of the "sales" table, I followed the "citations" for the "units sold" section. Except for the Xbox 360, ALL of the citations had ZERO relationship to the numbers posted. Apparantly, someone just picked numbers out of their head for the PS3 and Wii. Can someone find ACCURATE sales figures?J.delanoy 18:25, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Why is there info on SIXTH generation Handhelds?
The 7th generation, began just in November. Why is there info on the PSP and DS, and franchises that began in the 6th generation on the article. The article is containing SO much 6th generation info it's not even funny. SuperNESPlayer 02:05, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Because the generational progression for handheld systems are not directly related to the dates in which the main consoles were released. There is a clear leap in the capabilities of the DS and PSP which effectively places it in a different hardware generation to the GBA and its other contemporaries, as is there between the Gameboy Color and the GBA. Misterkillboy 02:56, 1 April 2007 (UTC) I agree with the second guy. Seventh ganeration began in Nov. 05' (Xbox 360) for the consles, and the handhelds in Nov. 04' (DS0 Uber555 23:41, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree as well. The DS, PSP, etc should be put back in the 7th Gen section where they belong. To say that the DS is in the same generation as the GBA is kind of rediculous. Thores 06:31, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

PS2 in the 7th generation
After looking at a few stats of sales figures for the PS2, PS3, Xbox360 and the Wii, it seams the PS2 is managing to outsell the other consoles still. No mention of this is made in either the 6th or 7th generation pages. Is this relevant?
 * will it be relevant in 20 years? the answer to both my question and yours will be the same. if you decide the answer is yes than it should be mentioned either here or here. i don't think it belongs in the seventh gen. article as the the ps2 is a sixth gen console.J.L.Main 09:30, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * That's like saying the PS1 should be sizth generation. The PS1 outsold all the other consoles in the beginning because it was cheap. Secondly, console generations is talking about that specific "era" (if that is the correct word to use). Generations do not mean who has the highest sales. CuffX 23:46, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Reverting...
Well, I obtained version from March 3, and I see that in comparision with actual version of this article was vandalised. After "Worldwide sales standings" section everything is deleted. Can someone find, whom contribution are responsible and revert them? I won't revert them, 'casue I don't know which version was last with those deleted sections. Ho&#322;ek &#1161; 13:22, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

What the hell
The PSP and the Nintendo DS are seventh gen. handhelds. They mark the start the seventh generation as HANDHELDS not the big consles. I changed it back because look at the big diffence between the DS PSP and the GBA. Lol he had only changed the PSP DS and the DS Lite although the others were released at the same time and have about the same hardware. Uber555 23:32, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Number of release games comparison?
What do people thing about adding a section to the comparison box simply noting the number of retail games available for the platforms? And with the case of online: XBLA, Wii Virtual console, and whever casual games there are on the PS3's PSN. It is, after all, a point of comparison. Fully released games only i would reccomend.RC Master 19:20, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

3.07 million PS3's sold
(According to this website anyway) http://www.vgchartz.com/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.231.61.65 (talk) 23:54, 5 April 2007 (UTC).

Xbox 360 Elite should maybe get its own column
I don't know what you think but I believe that the Elite version of the Xbox 360 should maybe get its own column partly because of the differt asthetics of the console itself but also because of the many different additions in the consloe your opinions pleaseThingy28123 18:51, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The Xbox 360 Elite should not have it's own column. Despite it's differences, the Elite is still an Xbox 360. Same thing with the Playstation 2 and Playstaion 2 Slim. Despite those system's differences, they were still just refered to as the PlayStation 2. CuffX 23:51, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

DS in 6 or 7
the DS and the DS Lite are both in the 6 and 7th generations shouldent they be in just one? (I think lite in 7 normal in 6) Nathan N F M 09:43, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * This has been discussed several times further up in the talk page, as far as I can tell it's the same guy changing it every time, and he's the only guy that thinks that these systems are 6th gen. The answer is they should both be in the 7th gen article, and only 7th gen. Thores 05:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Power consumption
There should be a comparison on power consumption, it is important. Shantaclaus 22:35, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Launch prices in Japanese Yen?
I think this should be added to the comparison chart, considering 2 of the three consoles are from Japan and its importance in the market/game development. The formatting could make this crowded, though.Tehw1k1 18:11, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

OK I was about to add JP prices, then I had to change the formatting. I think this format will be more future proof from getting too cluttered in case additional SKUs get released. Let me know if you disagree with the change before you revert the page.Tehw1k1 19:20, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

What is "seventh generation"?
For persons who haven't played video games for 20 years, there's no clarification here of what "seventh" amounts to. What distinguishes it from previous "generations"? That MUST be in this article. Jajafe 08:09, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Its an estimation of a time period when competing hardware is released. Some generations interlap slightly. Its like VHS was one generation for movies, DVD was the next. It has to do with the cycles in which computer hardware improves. Check the box on the top right of the entry to look up all the different gens and how they relate. Tehw1k1 05:53, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Franchise questions
I've gone to the trouble of checking up which games truly qualify as franchises and which don't, since there was a difference of opinion recently. Here's my reasoning for the changes I'm about to make:

Asphalt Urban GT-AUGT2 is in stores, keep

Brain Age-sequels released in Japan, unlocalized at this time, keep

Big Brain Academy-Wii sequel to be released next month, keep

Coded Arms-PSP sequel to be released in June, keep

Cooking Mama-Wii sequel released in March, keep

Dead Rising-strong rumors of a sequel, but will erase for now

Death Jr.-multiple sequels for DS and PSP previewed and planned for release, keep

Elite Beat Agents / Ouendan - one is a remake of the other for western audiences, Ouendan 2 will be released soon in Japan., keep

Enchanted Arms - ported to PS3, no sequel-erase

EXIT - sequel previewed in Famitsu., keep

F.E.A.R. - sequel announced, keep

Feel the Magic - sequel is called "the rub rabbits", keep

Full Auto - FA2 released on PS3, keep

Gears of War - sequel all but announced, very strong franchise, keep

Jump Super Stars - sequel released in Japan, keep

Kameo - nothing announced, erase

LocoRoco - sequel rumored and previewed in PS home demo, JP magazines, keep

Lost in Blue - sequel released last month, keep

Lost Planet - sequel for cell phones announced, keep

Lumines - sequels/remakes on PSP, xbox live, keep

Mercury - multiple sequels released, keep

Meteos - sequels and remakes on multiple platforms, thats our Miz LOL, keep

Motorstorm - nothing announced, erase

MySims - DS and Wii versions planned and previewed extensively, keep

Nanostray - sequel planned and previewed, keep

Nintendogs - multiple versions released, huge franchise, keep

Polarium - sequel released on GBA, keep

Professor Layton - two sequels announced for Japan, keep

Resistance - a sequel is likely, but no announcement, erase

Red Steel - sequel very likely, no announcement, erase

Saints Row - nothing announced, erase

Tamagotchi Connection: Corner Shop - sequel released, keep

Trauma Center - Wii remake released, keep

Also, revived franchises means a franchise that has had no new games released for a generation or more, then returning. It does not include franchises that continue with no absence between gens. Thanks. Tehw1k1 05:43, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Sales Figures
These sales figures are not properly cited. The PS3 figures from January definitely were not 3 million, so, we need a new cite, preferably for all three systems. The cites put the PS3 at less then half a million. We should update all three if possible.72.50.176.87 02:10, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Asterisks
Why are there asterisks * and ** next to some of the wii specs??? if they reference something the reference should be included, otherwise they should be removed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dave1g (talk • contribs) 03:13, 5 May 2007 (UTC).

Sales charts
Small Text Someone took out the sales charts that compares how many units were sold and what order the most grossing system was. Could some one put it back in? thanks74.14.49.136 19:29, 6 May 2007 (UTC)The dark revenge

PS3 memory
The article states that PS3 Memory specifications have: "256 MB XDR @ 3,2 GHz". 3.2 GHz RAM memory does not exist (I hope it will :D ), maybe Gbit/s istead of MHz? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.43.161.19 (talk) 05:36, 8 May 2007 (UTC).
 * Actually 3.2Ghz memory does exist.The Goat 14:58, 28 May 2007 (UTC)