Talk:Severians

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Most parts of this article are definitely wrong (contradicting archaeology and other sources). I am even afraid that the Severans are largely a pure speculation. I hope someone can change the article correspondingly.

User:Juro


 * Any more information on that? --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;   3 July 2005 17:22 (UTC)

Severians vs Siverians

 * Irpen and AndreyK, can you discuss your arguments on the name before moving the article back and forth? abakharev 09:27, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
 * As the original name was Severians, then the move to Siverians should be based first. abakharev 09:30, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

It is explained at Talk:Severia. Also, because AndriyK often moves by cut'n'paste against policy (to circumvent consensus at WP:RM), the talk often doesn't get forwarded with an article and would be lost if I didn't revert. --Irpen 10:20, 9 October 2005 (UTC) The main argument is that it is a Ukrainian name and some users whant to impose this into English. --Irpen 11:44, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, the explanation for Severia (and so Severians) by User:LuiKhuntek makes quite a lot of sence. I wonder what are the arguments for Siverians. abakharev 11:26, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Servia
This might be how the Romans called their settlements - Servia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.179.43.122 (talk) 15:07, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Iranian etymology?
Logically, what is the probability of an indo-european people aka white people to be called after or related in any shape or form to the word "black"? It doesn't make sense. Can somebody elaborate on this hypothesis because with the information given it is very confusing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.27.38.136 (talk) 10:30, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Many tribes on the steppe were named black. Color black usually meant "northern". I think it is more than an accident but sevordi means "black lads" in Armenian and it was related with sabirs. In this article is also stated Severians could be Sabirs according to the Bavarian Geographer, but the slavic editors of the article will never start this article with that - they rather start it with pure linguistic speculations to find a slavic meaning and even named the whole section as "ethnonym" however nobody knows for sure where the name comes from but seemingly they know it is an ethnonym (a name a people give themselves). Zoltan_Bereczki (talk) 06:07, 31 March 2018 (UTC) Zoltan_Bereczki (talk) 06:07, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

The Seven tribes and the Severi
According to "The Early Medieval Balkans: A Critical Survey from the Sixth to the Late Twelfth Century", John Van Antwerp Fineр p. 69, cited a s a source in the article: ''The Bulgars found a variety of Slavic tribes in the regions they occupied. Theophanes says the Bulgars became masters of the Slavs (i.e., conquered them). The Seven tribes were subjected, and the Severi, (a Slavic tribe) were moved to the east, to the shore of the Black sea. The Severi seem to have retained at least semi-independence.'' I.e. the Bulgars found these Slavs in Moesia and they found there the Seven tribes and the Severi. 46.16.193.70 (talk) 11:12, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Now, I have read Fiedler, Uwe opinion in "Bulgars in the Lower Danube region: A survey of the archaeological evidence and of the state of current research". He really wrote about Seven tribes and the Severi as part of them. However this is a mistake. Check for example The Origins of Russia, by George Vernadsky,	Clarendon Press, 1959; p. 89: The Byzantine historian Theophanes Confessor (who wrote in 810-15) mentions two Antian tribes in the lower Moesia — the Severi and the 'Seven Clans'. These tribes had branches in south Russia.  Also you can check "History of the Byzantine State" by George Ostrogorsky, 1957, p. 113: The territory which the  Bulgars invaded, was by then largely slavonized and was inhabited by seven Slav tribes, in addition to the Severi. Regards. 46.16.193.70 (talk) 15:50, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Firstly, you don't modify the sourced claim according your own subjective POV, that's againt Wikipedia principles. Secondly, you don't start a discussion and end it by yourself without any other editor input, and then edit the article according its (ie. your own) "conclusion" - there was no discussion conclusion. You obviously lack any knowledge of what the sources talk about. The Seven Slavic tribes included the Severeis, and what some historians speculate belongs to (wrong) scholarship speculation. They found and conquered those Seven Slavic tribes (which included the Severeis) in Moesia Inferior - and moved the Severies in north-eastern Moesia Inferior, while other six unnamed tribe to the South and West. The primary source by the Byzantine historian Theophanes is clear on the topic: "Having, furthermore, subjugated the so-called Seven Tribes of the neighbouring Sklavinian nations, they [the Bulgars] settled the Severeis from the forward mountain pass of Beregaba [or Veregava...] in the direction of the east, and the remaining six tribes, which were tributary to them, in the southern and western regions as far as the land of the Avars". Stop reverting.--Crovata (talk) 16:50, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

East of Dnieper River implies east of Danube River
The current article text contains:

"The Severians or Severyans or Siverians (Russian: Северяне; Ukrainian: Сiверяни, romanized: Siveriany; Belarusian: Севяране) were a tribe or tribal confederation of early East Slavs occupying areas to the east of the middle Dnieper River and the Danube River."

The Dnieper River lies east of the Danube River. Therefore, what is east of the Dnieper River is automatically east of the Danube river. Why then, I wonder, does the text make reference to the Danube River?

Or is the following intended:

"The Severians or Severyans or Siverians (Russian: Северяне; Ukrainian: Сiверяни, romanized: Siveriany; Belarusian: Севяране) were a tribe or tribal confederation of early East Slavs occupying areas to the east of the Danube River as well as other areas to the east of the middle Dnieper River."?Redav (talk) 20:26, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
 * One group of the tribe settled in the Balkans, but not east of the Danube River, more like southeast.--Miki Filigranski (talk) 22:29, 15 February 2022 (UTC)