Talk:Seward Highway/Archive 1

Split proposal
It's a little misleading to redirect AK 1 to here as it is also the Sterling Highway. &mdash; Rob (  talk  ) 20:10, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Interstate mention
I know it is unsigned, but the Interstate highway designation applied to Seward Highway should be mentioned in the article. Allen (talk) 10:34, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Recent edits
Too much like a travel guide. Too many items needing clarification. I'll see what I can do.RadioKAOS (talk) 11:40, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh. Not reading the whole thing first, I didn't realize that this was in conjunction with a GA thing.  You're jumping a little too far ahead at this point, as there are major deficiencies.  I'm not sure I have that much time to deal with it, so I'll wait for someone else to start the GA review before I offer more extensive comments.RadioKAOS (talk) 11:50, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed on the deficiencies. I just spotchecked the article a bit with some updates. I put the junction list table into templates to update it for MOS:RJL compliance.
 * I would suggest that the history of this highway needs to be fleshed out further. When was the National Scenic Byway designation granted? How about the All-American Road designation? Why are there no paper road maps used as sources instead of relying only on Google Maps? (Hint: visit pretty much any state DOT's website and you can request a free road map; if the DOT doesn't have one, there's usually a state tourism board that does instead.) My paper Alaska map also came with a nice brochure on Alaska's Scenic Byways Program that contains a write-up about this highway. Other reference options include the annual edition of The Road Atlas by Rand McNally. In short, don't ever use just Google/Yahoo!/Bing Maps alone as a source; always buttress their mapping with a paper map for accuracy.
 * The article needs to be audited for missing conversions in the RD section. The photos, if possible, should be moved up into the body of the article instead of using a gallery. The various items in boldfacing should be removed; typically only the name of the article and terms redirected to the article are bolded and normally only in the lead. Directions like "north", "northbound", "south" and the like are not proper nouns are never capitalized unless part of another proper noun.
 * I also found some potential inaccuracies in that Whittier was listed as being in the Municipality of Anchorage, yet it's in the Valdez-Cordova Census Area of the Unorganized Borough. Please find out if the northern entrance to the Chugach National Forest is in the Unorganized Borough or the Municipality of Anchorage and correct the table as appropriate. If the Portage Glacier Highway junction isn't in Whittier, well, that needs to be changed as well. Please also determine the mileages if you can, for the two national forest entrances.
 * All of the items in the "Towns and places along the Seward Highway" section should already be listed and linked from the RD section. That means that the list, which has been long deprecated according to WP:USRD/STDS, is redundant to a well-written RD and a proper junction or exit list.
 * The lead section needs to be expanded to cover the information in the history section, including a mention of the NSB/AAR, Alaska State Scenic Byway, and the National Forest Scenic Byway designations. I suggest that until all of this is fixed that the nominator withdraw the nomination before a reviewer has the chance to formally note all of this and fail the nomination. Once the article has received a good copy edit for tone and the missing information is added, then the article can be renominated. GA status isn't difficult to achieve, but it isn't meaningless either.  Imzadi 1979  →   12:40, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't forget a little book called The Milepost, which has only been published annually for 60+ years. It contains copious references and perhaps considerably more details than would be necessary for this article.
 * A lot of the information regarding places along the highway reads as if it were somewhat made up. A "city" in Alaska is a type of municipal corporation.  Period.  Hope isn't a city, it's a census-designated place.  Girdwood isn't an unincorporated community, as it's within the corporate limits of the Municipality of Anchorage.  To boot, the highway doesn't ever enter the Unorganized Borough.  I don't have handy access to good enough maps right now, but I believe the highway system only enters the Unorganized Borough in that vicinity by virtue of the Anton Anderson Memorial Tunnel crossing east beyond Anchorage corporate limits.  The Seward Highway crosses the KPB/MOA boundary somewhere in between the Placer River/Twentymile Creek crossings and the ascent into the Kenai Mountains.RadioKAOS (talk) 13:19, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * (Oh yeah, one more thing)...In recent years, the Rand McNally atlas has published mini-features on Scenic Byways and other scenic drives.  I'm pretty certain that the Seward Highway has been included in this, but I couldn't tell you in which year's edition.RadioKAOS (talk) 20:37, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * (and another) The highway is also profiled in the National Geographic Guide to Scenic Highways and Byways (Third Edition).  BTW, glancing through various editions of The Milepost tells me that this article still has quite a ways to go.RadioKAOS (talk) 02:13, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

I just did a bunch of editing to overhaul parts of the article. When the RD gets its copy edit, the lead section will need to be updated to summarize the prose of the article. All in all, the article is still a few steps away from being ready for nomination at GAN.  Imzadi 1979  →   08:23, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) The RD received a section "mini-lead" that summarizes the National Highway System stats, the hidden Interstate Highway designation and the traffic counts. I have not copy edited the remainder of the RD section though.
 * 2) The History received a copy edit to put it in chronological order, and I added the history of the various scenic highway designations.
 * 3) The junction list table was rebuilt using ADOT&PF reports for the mileposts to three decimal places. I based the KPB–MoA boundary division based on the outlines in Google Maps. (Search for them on the map now and the website outlines the boundaries. The KPB locations may need refinement.
 * 4) Depending on the results of copy editing the RD, all of the photos should be removed out of the gallery and used in the sections of the article.
 * 5) I've gone through to revise all of the references to have complete and consistent formatting.
 * Revisions have been made. I suggest moving article up to B-class. Awardgive, the editor with the msitaken name. 22:36, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but the lead doesn't summarize the article; the history section isn't mentioned in it. You're getting really close, but you might want a local to double check that you're not too close to a travel guide in the RD section.  Imzadi 1979  →   05:53, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The lead has been revised, and a few more revisions have been made to the route description. Awardgive, the editor with the msitaken name. 00:19, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Interstate shield removal
Why was the Interstate highway shield removed from the page? I know the Interstate highway designations are unsigned, but shouldn't they still show up? If I remember correctly, there is no mention of the designation in the article, except for the category at the bottom. Allen (talk) 20:04, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Using the Interstate shields would violate WP:OR. Signs have never been manufactured officially, so we can only guess what they look like. –Fredddie™ 00:50, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
 * There's indication that FHWA has used the shields as graphics on maps like this one, but that's it. It would be undue weight though to use them outside of the List of Interstate Highways in Alaska unless/until they're used in real life on the roads. A simple mention in the prose of Interstate status is appropriate and necessary until then.  Imzadi 1979  →   01:43, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Inconsistencies and issues

 * The lead says 127 miles, the infobox says 125.336 (with a source) and the junction list backs the infobox length.


 * The infobox's junction list doesn't match up too well with the junction list table. For example, the southern terminus isn't the same, or similar, in both.


 * The lead is four short paragraphs that should be integrated better. Ideally, an article of this size should have two substantial paragraphs, not four shorter ones as it does now. I'd use the first paragraph to define the subject (The Seward Highways is .... ) and to summarize the key points of the route description. Then the second paragraph would summarize the key points of the history


 * The RD sections needs a little trimming in places to remove extraneous details. It's good to list the landmarks along the route, but there's a fine line between encyclopedic representations and a tour guide; stay on the encyclopedic side of that line.


 * Bear Creek isn't a township. That term has a specific meaning in parts of the US, so be careful in using it. It isn't a city either, so it doesn't have "city limits".


 * "After passing through about 10 miles of forest..." is missing a metric conversion. Make sure that every measurement in American-style units has a metric equivalent presented, unless it's "a few miles" or the like. With something like "For the next five or so miles" you'll have to manually insert the conversion with something like, "For the next five or so miles (8 km)," manually converting and rounding off to give the same level of approximation. Audit the whole article, because I'm finding plenty of missing conversions. convert and convert/spell come in very handy for these.


 * "After a few miles, the road passes the community of Tern Lake Junction, and intersects with Alaska Route 1, where Alaska Route 9 terminates, and Alaska 1 takes the name of Seward Highway." Several things, but the highway names should be abbreviated. Second, that abbreviation is "AK-1", not "Alaska 1". Third, AK-1 doesn't take the name Seward Highway, but instead Seward Highway assumes the AK-1 designation. In this case, the highway names came first and the numbers second.


 * ".. the route continues through similar conditions, with a dense forest surrounding the the route." You have "the route... the the route.." Try to vary the references to the highway a bit, and drop the double "the".


 * I'd break up some of the really long paragraphs in the RD section. If you're going to have multiple subsections, you don't need to cram everything in that subsection into one paragraph. In fact, it looks better and reads better to have easily digestible paragraphs in the section.


 * "After the highway exits the National Forest..." national forest, except when part of a name, isn't a proper noun; drop the caps.


 * "The road continues through forest for about 10 miles (16 km), before passing a small, unincorporated community." which community?


 * You might want to indicate that the AK-1 designation continues northward. Just a sentence will do.


 * The photos need to be laid out differently. File:SewardHwyMM97.jpg shouldn't be immediately above the section heading, and File:Turnagain Arm and Kenai Mountains.jpg shouldn't be on the other side of the article. On my monitor (set to a window width approximating a sheet of paper), the first paragraph of the "Girdwood to Anchorage" subsection is squished between the two photos.

This article is border B/C because of these prose issues. They need to be rectified before any future reviewer passes this article for GA status.  Imzadi 1979  →   01:27, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe the issues have been addressed. If there is anything that still needs improving that I overlooked, then please point it out. - Awardgive, the editor with the msitaken name. 06:28, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Locations
Was auditing the junction box. Census FactFinder was evidently redesigned to be as useless as possible. I had to put a lot of work into finding a zoom level which actually showed me the highway along with city/CDP boundaries. While perhaps not of interest to the junction box, it is curious to note that Lawing Airport falls within the CDP boundaries of Crown Point, while Lawing itself is within Primrose.

I redid the location field to make it correspond to city or CDP boundaries. I'm fearing that it may border on OR to describe a wide spot along the highway as a "community." Any thoughts along those lines?RadioKAOS (talk) 12:22, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

What prompted this is that Tern Lake Junction has never been considered a community per se. However, speaking of Tern Lake Junction, looking at Google Maps has brought up another question. We can tell, from the signage as well as other available sources, that Alaska Route 1 southbound runs along the southbound exit ramp to the westbound Sterling Highway. So, technically, the Seward Highway and Alaska Route 1 run concurrently only northbound within the stretch between where the two intersect with the Seward Highway. However, it is hard to tell from the signage whether Alaska Route 9 actually begins at the exit ramp intersection, or at the Sterling Highway intersection. I haven't paid a visit to that area in a while now. I haven't seen anything that I can recall which would constitute an answer from a RS, either. Any hints, feel free to let us know.RadioKAOS (talk) 12:48, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Destinations
Places which have Wikipedia articles and are primarily accessible from the highway:

Seward
Resurrection Bay

Railway Avenue
Alaska SeaLife Center, Government Cable Office, Hoben Park, (historic) Seward Depot; Lowell Point Road to Caines Head State Recreation Area trail access to Fort McGilvray, Lowell Creek Diversion Tunnel, Lowell Point,

Washington Street
Brown & Hawkins Store

Adams Street
St. Peter's Episcopal Church, Van Gilder Hotel

Jefferson Street
Lowell Canyon Road to Lowell Creek Diversion Tunnel, Swetman House

Madison Street
Ballaine House

Monroe Street
Trail access to Mount Marathon

Port Avenue
current Alaska Railroad depot, Phoenix Road to Jesse Lee Home for Children

Airport Road
Seward Airport

Nash Road
Spring Creek Correctional Center (which is actually within Seward city limits, which stretch across Resurrection Bay to include industrial lands at the end of Nash Road - the beginning of the road is within Bear Creek)

Herman Leirer Road
Exit Glacier

Bear Lake Road
Bear Lake