Talk:Sex assignment

introduction
Sex assignment (sometimes *incorrectly* known as gender assignment) is the determination of an infant's sex at birth.

Sex and gender are two different concepts; it is impossible to assign gender at birth since infants do not yet possess gender identity or expression. Suggest removing the text in parentheses.

It's assigned gender, not representative of the actual gender identity. i.e, the gender assignment is unrelated to the actual gender identity. Also remember to sign your posts on talk page with 4 tildes. Germany FranceUK Australia Russia Latvia (talk) 02:22, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Please don't suggest using your own wording over the terms used almost universally by the reliable sources. This has been discussed numerous times before by others who had the same question as you (see for example, Archive 1 sections and, and others.) It's a basic principle of Wikipedia that we follow the usage of the preponderance of reliable, secondary sources on the subject, so regardless of any logical interpretation you may have about the meaning of the words sex or gender, since there is near-universal agreement about the wording among reliable sources, that's what we have to do. Putting it more bluntly to make this point crystal clear: regardless of the logic of the situation, or your own experience, or the dictionary meaning of the words, if the sources say, "The sky is green", then so do we (along with a citation, of course).  Hope this clears up your question. Mathglot (talk) 18:30, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * All very good, except that you don't actually point to any of "the reliable sources", "the sources", the "preponderance of reliable, secondary sources", "reliable, secondary sources", "near-universal agreement [about the wording among reliable sources]", "the sources".
 * That is somewhat surprising if (i) Wikipedia is supposed to be based on those very things and (ii) they actually exist, clearly, unambiguously and are near-universally agreed upon.
 * To use your own words, putting it more bluntly to make this point crystal clear: you do not provide any evidence that the near-universality or reliability which you claim exist actually do exist. You have effectively said, "I don't have any evidence to present but I'm right anyway, and this is how Wikipedia works".  That suggests that Wikipedia is based on your own, unsubstantiated opinion, interpretation or the world.
 * Proposal: for consistencey with your claims Wikipedia should be renamed to Mathglotipedia.
 * (Aside: having decided upon a mathematics-related name for yourself you don't seem to regognise the ironic inadequacy of your reasoning from a mathematcal or logical perspective). 86.139.37.148 (talk) 15:09, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * No, I've seen the reliable sources, they're in the article and elsewhere, I revoke my previous claims, I was both wrong and being annoying, with my own logic self contradicting myself. (FYI my username was 'Germany FranceUK Australia Russia Latvia' before I changed it) A Socialist   Trans Girl  10:23, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Can’t we say that sex (biological) is discerned and gender (psychological/social) is assigned?
That’s my understanding. Sex “assignment” sounds wrong. Thanks! 82.36.70.45 (talk) 02:23, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Since there hasn’t been an answer I’ll go ahead and make small edits. 82.36.70.45 (talk) 17:06, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Oh, it’s blocked. So an answer would be good. 82.36.70.45 (talk) 17:06, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Sex assignment at birth is the terminology overwhelmingly used by medical professionals, working in the English language. The only circumstances where we'd change the title or content would be if the terminology shifts within the medical profession, which to my knowledge hasn't happened.
 * This terminology has been discussed a few times on this talk page now, see the section directly above this one, as well as this discussion in Archive 2. Sideswipe9th (talk) 17:13, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * "...terminology overwhelmingly used by medical professionals". Maybe in the US, but not in the UK, where it's only used in exceptional circumstances; see, for example. I might add that the phrase "sex assignment" is rapidly becoming one of ridicule, especially in the MSM. I'm beginning to wonder why this article exists at all. 31.52.163.234 (talk) 18:23, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * How media sources respond to this terminology isn't really our concern. This is primarily an article about a medical topic, so WP:MEDRS applies, which tells us that health-related content in the general news media should not normally be used to source biomedical content in Wikipedia articles. Within the medical literature, as evidenced by the sources in the article and the many discussions that have occurred on the talk page about this term over at least the last ten years (see the talk page archives for this), that term is sex assignment. Sideswipe9th (talk) 18:45, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Did you not follow the link I provided? 31.52.163.234 (talk) 18:51, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I did, however that guide is for writing inclusive content targeted at patients and members of the public. The term "sex someone was registered with at birth" is not used within actual medical literature (PubMed search, Google Scholar search, JSTOR search). This article uses the language used within medical literature, which is "sex assigned at birth" (Google Scholar search, PubMed search, JSTOR search). Sideswipe9th (talk) 19:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Your suggested searches included the full phrase (admittedly it's a bit unwieldy) from the NHS website. If you try this one ("sex registered at birth"), a large number of meaningful results are returned. I'm not sure WP:MEDRS is fully applicable here. In this article we're not really talking about medical research, but rather about a social issue. Again, I think the "sex assignment" terminology is largely used in the US. It might be appropriate to have a section detailing the relevant wording preferred in other English-speaking countries. 31.52.163.234 (talk) 19:19, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Assigned Vs Discerned
There seems to be an avoidance of clarifying what is actually being described since 'assigning' describes the act of a person making a choice or decision which subsequently describes a state, whilst 'discerning' describes a person recognizing a state that already exists. Yet one term is used in the explanation of the other, leaving a muddle. If nothing clearer can be formulated the whole matter leaves the subject of the article in a somewhat fragile state that does not bear scrutiny. The consequence is that the article conveys the impression that no one knows exactly whether sex is something that exists, a priori, or something that only comes into being as a result of a person's stating it.

Special contributions/2A00:23EE:1550:27ED:90D0:271A:E059:2E88|2A00:23EE:1550:27ED:90D0:271A:E059:2E88]] (talk) 16:12, 20 April 2024 (UTC)


 * What actual change would you want to happen to the article? Whatever your philosophical or definional quibbles with the term, it is widely used in academic and medical contexts, in news reporting, and in legal writing, and as a matter of general policy, wikipedia reflects that. Wikipedia is not a dictionary, it doesn't need "perfect" definitions. Usable working definitions of terms are often included to make sure that the important content of the article is properly understood, but they are not the point of the article. Waitingtocompile (talk) 15:09, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I would also refer you to the archives of this talk page, the "discerned not assigned" argument has been hashed out plenty of times before, and you may want to familiarise yourself with those discussions and make sure that you actually have something new to bring to the table. Waitingtocompile (talk) 15:12, 27 April 2024 (UTC)