Talk:Shabak

Lack of References
People, this page may have a lot of good information, but we definitely need more sources/citations. Entire passages should be deleted if we can't find the sources, especially when it comes to legal and historical issues. Mg196 16:18, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

"and even one Al-Qaeda linkman (Iad Al-Bik)"

What is a "linkman"? OneVoice 20:08, 11 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I assume a linkman would be someone with a link to something.


 * A linkman is a man whoes job is to coordinate the reationships between two organizations. Most often, he is an "ambassador" of one of the organizations who is sent to the second organizations as a representative and address for messages. MathKnight 22:34, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This article contains many grammatical errors and poor English

"Rabin pictures in SS uniforms." This must refer to some incident, but it's completely unclear what. Real pictures? Faked? Provocations? needs some explanation. 64.165.202.161 02:37, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * The picture, was of cource, photoshoped. It was used to compare Rabin to a Nazi and thus delegitimate him. MathKnight 07:29, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Shin Bet is a mistake
Shin Bet is a mistake. The real name is Shabak. It used to be called Shin Bet 50 years ago.


 * I abseloutly agree, though the name Shin Bet or GSS is the common in foreign press. I'll move the article to its proper name. MathKnight 21:02, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

So should it be SHABAK or Shabak? Let me know and I'll move it. violet/riga (t) 19:31, 26 May 2005 (UTC)


 * It should be SHABAK - since it an accroynmous in Hebrew (unlike in English, Hebrew abbervation are pronounced with vowels). Thanks. MathKnight 20:35, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

No, it should be Shabak (not SHABAK) - and the page should also be changed to Shabak.

Isn't it Wikipedia policy to name articles by the most common term used in English? Is "Shabak" more common than "Shin Bet" in English texts? It appears not to be, even this article says "known in English as the Shin Bet".--Doron 12:39, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed, it's been a long time with no responce so I 'boldly' changed it Epson291 14:07, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * There is a difference between what is a "most common term" and what is the "correct" term. "Shin-Bet" may be popular, but that is simply not its proper name. Mg196 15:41, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Additionally, the entire article cites "SHABAK," and the sources refer to "SHABAK." Mg196 15:59, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You are incorrect on Wikipedia policy, read WP:NAME. For example the country Myanmar, redirects, to Burma, its former name, because its the most common name used in the English speaking press/world, just as it is with Shin Bet.  (I agree Shabat is the offical term today, but English media, whether in the U.S., U.K., or the English dailies in Israel, use Shin Bet.)
 * A simple Google tests shows the large difference.
 * A search for "Shin bet" -"Shabak" returns 331,000 results
 * Where as, as search for "Shabak" -"Shin bet" returns only 131,000 results
 * Similarly a Google news test shows only 15 results for Shabak, and sources from Italy, Turkey, Pakistan whereas for "Shin Bet" -Shabak, 91 results are returned, including Israeli sources, Ha'aretz, Ynetnews (Yedioth Ahronoth), Jerusalem Post, and others, TIME, and the Associated Press.
 * Read WP:NAME that it is the most popular name, not necessarily the one thats the most "official" or "proper". Epson291 06:12, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If you are going to perform such a dramatic rewrite of what has been a stable page for 2+ years, at leat have the courtesy to state your reasons in full. reverted to Shabak. WP:NAME provides - "Convention: For articles on organizations the general rule applies. That means: Name your pages with the English translation and place the original native name on the first line of the article unless the native form is more commonly used in English media than the English form." Shabak is the appropraite term in this case. That name is an acronymisation of the correct Hebrew term. The term 'Shin Bet' is not a correct acronym, and it is not an english translation of Shabak. If your contention is that some other part of WP:Name applies, then, please, set out your reasoning here.Khavakoz 00:25, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

The service consists of close to 5,000 employees
"The service consists of close to 5,000 employees". An anonymous editor has added this. Is there any source for this claim? Jayjg (talk) 3 July 2005 03:24 (UTC)


 * I don't think their should be a source for this kind of claims. Anyway, without attribution to "reliable" source, this data should be deleted. MathKnight 3 July 2005 10:55 (UTC)

Criticism
This is all mere speculation. No secret service ever reveals their questioning techniques. Everything written re the 'shabak technique' is merely hearsay and has not enough concrete evidence to warrant inclusion in this article.


 * As noted, quite a bit has been revealed due to related Supreme Court cases. Even apart from that, claims supported by extensive research by several human-rights organizations deserved to be included (as claims, naturally).  --Zero 04:46, 11 March 2006 (UTC)


 * As long as there are legit sources, I have no issues w/ Zero's comment. Though the term "SHABAK Technique" sounds a bit contrived.  I am guessing in Israel they call it the "CIA Technique?!" Mg196 16:55, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Krushchev's Speech
The fact that Shabak and not Mossad were responsible for getting a copy of Krushchev's speech has been known for quite a while, but now for the first time some of the insiders have told their version of the story to Haaretz. See and. I didn't add these links to the article because links to Haaretz always go dead after a few weeks. Maybe someone else will post the articles on the web more permanently so we can link to those. --Zero 04:46, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

not a NPOV statement
This is the quote in the passage: (in regard to Shin Bet monitoring pro-Soviet groups in Israel)


 * "Today, this kind of activity is considered harmful to democracy."

from who's point of view?

Translit
I think a transliteration of מגן ולא יראה would be helpful and interesting, in addition to the translation. LordAmeth 06:46, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

'Magen V'lo Yerah' literary means 'defender and unseeable' implying a warrior draped in invisible cloak. Mkobi 07:48, 10 September 2007 (UTC) mkobi

Merger proposal
I propose a merger of the page Shabak_technique with Criticism section of this page. The textual content of the separate page is almost identical to the content of the Criticism section. No further or better information is conveyed by the separate page, which is itself a stub. The information provided in the Criticism section is more fully referenced.Khavakoz 09:01, 21 September 2007 (UTC)