Talk:Shabiha

Shabeeha are not representing Bashar Al Asad
In fact Shabeeha are a gang that work and trade with weapons and Drugs, However, the Syrian Goverment has killed alot of them especially in 2003 when the brother of Bashar Al Asad (Maher) went to Latakia (West of Syria)to destroy them, IT IS NOT TRUE WHAT IS BEEN WRITTEN IN THE ESSAY. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maihab (talk • contribs) 03:12, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

This article is a mess
I tried to clean the lead up a tad, without deleting anything (except the obvious and uncontroversial). I did delete a reference to 'zanga' as thugs, which it most definitely is not. Zanga was just mentioned in the blog post as an example of a word uttered in the Arab Spring that gained widespread use in protests. Shabiha and baltajia (baltagia in Egyptian accent, balatija in Yemen) are pretty much synonymous. Their use most definitely predates the current wave of protests and revolutions in the Arab World, and simply means thugs. However the greatest exposure to the word is definitely due to the Syrian uprising. What I take issue with is that the lead of the article defines the term by one man's unsubstantiated view of a group of people. Shabiha are not necessarily Alawites, and they are not necessarily a paramilitary. Alas, this article needs much more work than I have time to put in to it. Here is an article in Arabic on the history of the word and its use in the Syrian protests --Fjmustak (talk) 02:48, 11 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Indeed, the article is total crap, sounds like propaganda from saudi arabia. There are no sources to base ANY of the claims given. It reads as if the FSA is trying to find excuses as to why they shoot at civilians, because they suspect them to be "Shabiha". 84.112.136.52 (talk) 21:13, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Text on Houla massacre
The section on the Houla massacre has been created primarily with text from that article; please see Houla massacre's page history for attribution. Khazar2 (talk) 20:23, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Overhaul
With the attention the Shabiha are getting this week due to the Houla massacre, I've made an attempt to overhaul the article by verifying citations and removing unsourced or unsupported claims. I'd be glad to have my own double-check double-checked, however. The grand diff is here:. If I've pulled out anything that should still be here, I hope people will re-add it, just with a clear citation this time. Khazar2 (talk) 21:19, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

2012 Hama massacre
Shabiha are also mentioned as being perpetrators for the 2012 Hama massacre here's a BBC article as a source. EdwardLane (talk) 11:07, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Added a brief mention to the Houla section. As the news on this continues to unfold, perhaps a second section could be started on the (currently just alleged) Hama massacre, or given their apparent similarities, perhaps both could be discussed in one section? We'll see how the news shakes out when the UN gets there tomorrow. Khazar2 (talk) 11:13, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Undue weight
This article gives way too much undue weight to questionable and sensationalist opposition claims. I have changed the intro accordingly, but the article itself may need clean-up. FunkMonk (talk) 16:01, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
 * perhaps westerlings ( a neologism, not in a dictionary but a marvellous addition to the worlds vocabulary)-have been involved in this. you are a bit vague however. Which claims are questionable and sensationalist. Sayerslle (talk) 16:15, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
 * That it is a "sectarian militia", for example. There are many notable Sunnis. And Westerling is the natural counterpart to Easterling. FunkMonk (talk) 16:21, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
 * perhaps 'pro-government militias' could be used instead while how uniform in make-up they are is researched. is that it? have the westerlings been active elsewhere, up to their knavish tricks, in the article? Sayerslle (talk) 16:35, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It is already used, and of course it should be mentioned that some sources describe them as sectarian militias, but we should not write it as if fact. As for the shenanigans of the fab four here, I guess you would know better than me, eh? FunkMonk (talk) 16:43, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
 * caertainly 'some sources' do - as here from the guardian in May last year -"a reserve army of loosely employed, poor young men from the Alawite offshoot of Shia Islam that has proved very useful to a regime that has made paranoia about enemies, real and imagined, the cornerstone of its survival." - - "paranoia about enemies, real and imagined" - good phrase that.Sayerslle (talk) 16:52, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
 * in that article too it speaks about Sunni involvement, as paymasters even "As Syria retreated from Lebanon in 2005 and warmed to the west, it lumbered towards a dysfunctional kind of market economy. The result was to hand power to a new kind of businessman, usually Sunni, who managed to forge links with the Alawite-dominated clique that controls the tentacles of Syria's security state.

As profit moved away from smuggling and towards more legitimate business interests, a small core of well-connected operators grabbed control of industries, equipment, franchises and car dealerships – one of the central complaints of ordinary Syrians as the uprising has gathered momentum in the last year.

It's these same businessmen, many of them Sunni and not Alawite, who are now quietly passing money to the shabiha, mainly to protect their lucrative business privileges, but also to keep their political sponsors happy." Sayerslle (talk) 19:40, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Translation
"Shabeeha" does not mean "thugs" in Arabic. The closest translation would be "spectres" or "apparitions", so I will change it. - ☣Tourbillon A ? 07:26, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

POV term
The term "Shabiha" is an invention, and not a self denomination for any group. It is just a term the Syrian insurgents use as umbrella for all pro-government groups and individuals, and which they use to justify execution of such. This article takes their claims at face value, which it shouldn't. The term should not be used elsewhere, "pro-government militia" or some such should. FunkMonk (talk) 14:47, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you are right; your statement sounds logical. But where have you got your knowledge from? Might be useful to know, if we want to improve the article. And please give examples of the 'claims' of insurgents which this article unjustifiedly takes at face value, as you claim: would also help us to improve the article. --Corriebertus (talk) 14:32, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

According to the Syrian official authorities the "Shabiha" no exist
SPIEGEL: So you deny that the Shabiha militia was involved?

Assad: What do you mean by "Shabiha?"

SPIEGEL: This militia, the "ghosts," who are close to your regime.

Assad: This is a Turkish name. There is nothing called "Shabiha" in Syria. http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/spiegel-interview-with-syrian-president-bashar-assad-a-926456.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by LogFTW (talk • contribs) 02:47, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

no such thing,,,,,
There's no such thing as a shabiha no matter how hard you try to make it seem.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:6000:60C1:1D00:A463:F193:C09:E7CC (talk) 14:15, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

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Shabiha vs Struggle Companies
Could it be that the Shabiha, presuming they actually exist, are actually the Struggle Companies who seem to have disappeared? Just curious as 5,000 seems to be the common strength quoted.Degen Earthfast (talk) 00:44, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Conspiracy theorists in the lede
I just reverted a bunch of edits that added conspiracy theorists and other unreliable sources into the lede, along with a bunch of POV language. Please use reliable sources only and WP:NPOV. Jushyosaha604 (talk) 15:28, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Not Alawite
This article has been changed since few years ago by removing all the references and sources to the fact that many Shabiha were from Sunni families and Sunni tribes loyal to the government. Not all Shabiha were Alawites, and their platform wasn’t “anti Sunni”, as leading Sunni families, for example in Aleppo, led their local Shabiha groups. Shabiha platform was pro government, not some mythical Alawite-Sunni conflict. For example, this source mentions; “ In Aleppo Governorate, the term Shabihais used frequently to refer to pro-Assad Sunni tribes.” 193.119.115.107 (talk) 21:15, 4 July 2023 (UTC)