Talk:Shaddadids

Actually, the region of Arran is Armenian. Historically speaking, all lands east of the Kura river are Armenian. This is evident not only by Armenian culture present here, and famous historians, but also numismatic evidence. Abbasid coinage bear the title Arminia Barda, inticating province of Arab Armenia, and mint of the city of Barda in the region of Arran, indicating this region was within Armenia, even in Arab times. Furthermore, there are coins struck here in the name of the Arab governor/emir of the province of Armenia. Finally the region of arran extended to the shores of Lake Sevan, within the borders of modern Armenia, making this a historic part of Armenia.


 * I Agree. Apart from Lachin and Kelbajar, other areas of Arran have been historically Armenian.Heja Helweda 03:31, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

How funny. Agreement without any argument - what about Barda (Partav), Ganja, Salyan, Mughan and Talysh. This is all the left Bank. Armenia seems to be an enormous country in the past. Appreciate any non-armenian source stating that Aran is armenian Abdulnr 01:11, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes Mr. Academic, we both agree therefore we do not argue, a scientific breakthrough!, there is nothing really do discuss. See Minorsky, studies in Caucasian history!

Arabic or Kurdish
Where is the source for Arabic background of Shaddadids?.Heja Helweda 22:16, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Let me be clear check your facts. First of al Najm ad-Din Ayyub was governor of Baalbek a city in Libanon. Source: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin. Furthermore the Shaddadid founder Muhammad ibn Shaddad was a member of the famous Arab tribe Shaddad and because of the legendry name of the familiy it's is common knowledge he was from the same family. there isn't even a Kurdish tribe or familiie in that time called Shaddad if so please hand the source over cause I did a hell of a search and it was always an Arab family even in pre islamic times see the Mu'allaqat (famous pre islam arab poetry) the family was legendary because of their warrior tradions see Antara Ibn Shaddad. So for the people talking nonsense about our history just stop it cause there are so much arab information about that time it's clear who he was. Famous Arabs from his tribe and even family where Antara Ibn Shaddad and Abu Isa Muhammad ibn Isa ibn Sawra ibn Shaddad. Sources: Mu'allawat, Search the persons : Antara ibn Shaddad and Abu Sawra Ibn Shaddad famous family members, http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin (He was gouvernor of Baalbuk before which was a Libanon (there where'n and aren't Kurdish people in Libanon only Arabs), the source that he is Kurdish comes from Vladimir Minorsky, The Prehistory of Saladin, Studies in Caucasian History, Cambridge University Press, 1957, pp.124-132: 'The medieval historian Ibn Athir relates a passage from another commander: "...both you and Saladin are Kurds and you will not let power pass into the hands of..."' BUT THE MEDIEVAL HISTORIAN IBN ATHIR WAS KURDISH HIMSELF SO NOT SUBJECTIVE AND THE ONLY SOURCE AGAINST MOSt SOURCES SAYING HE WAS SELTJOEK OR ARABs. Sow keep playing information but it doesn't change the fact he was An Shaddad of the Famous ARAB Shaddad tribe. How can you still try to turn him in Kurdish damn check your facts. This is wikipedia not some forum.

Please provide your sources for the Arab origin. Do not revert the article without providing evidence. Thanks.Heja Helweda 02:35, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


 * You are right, the Rawadid were not Kurds, but the Shaddadids were.

--Ali doostzadeh 08:30, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

'''Ok but what was their religion? The Shaddadid rulers had names like Ali, Fazl, Musa and i also saw the name Al-Quaim on one Shaddadid coin which is the name from the shia Imam Mahdi oder a Calif from the Fatamids Dynastia who was also Shia...Some Turkologs (scientists for turkish history) like Dr.Mahmut Risvanoglu and Prof.Dr.M.Fahrettin Kırzıoğlu says that the Shaddads has turkish origins, because of they lineage (descent) to the Saka's or Bala-Sakan's (persian turks).

best regards,

steve'''

Organization
Guys, I tried to organize the article as best I could as of now (with the short amount of time I had). However, its still in need of work. How about we make this article about the Shaddadids (as it just the Shaddadid dynasty and its history, you know, the major information, not the minor things like who minted what coins where) as a whole, and then create an article for each individual monarch (describing their individual minor deeds). What do you guys think? For example, see the Achaemenid Empire, the article is solely about the empire, and each monarch of the empire has its own article talking about their achievements, wars, things that happened during their time etc...Azerbaijani 23:41, 2 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I have gotten no response so far, so I may just start this on my own, but first I'll try to contact some people.Hajji Piruz 20:57, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, I just looked at the history and it seems there isnt really anyone who is really active with regards to this article. I'll see if I can find more information on the Shaddadids themselves, and if I can I'll do what I proposed above.Hajji Piruz 20:59, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Are the Shaddadids Shia's or Sunnis?

I can help you i can also read Arab so i have access to the basis sources and i have some contributions about his ethnicity because of the lack of evidence saying he was Kurdish (he even fought Kurdish rulers before he took power there) and the Kurds and Iranians who build this page I seriously doubt the legitimacy of this page. Wikipedia isn't a platform for propagenda or misvorming information so give the FACTS and let people conclude themself.

Shaddadid borders
I object to an outrage vandalism of User:Taron Saharyan who deleted referenced map from this article, without even trying to offer explanation for such action. Map is clearly referenced, here are its references:
 * http://azerbaijans.com/uploads/revadissss.jpg
 * http://www.azerbaijan.az/portal/History/HistoricalMaps/images/hist_map_12_e.jpg

Now, User:Taron Saharyan, can you at least try to explain what you consider wrong with this map and its references? 109.121.57.241 (talk) 15:46, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Ответил здесь.--Taron Saharyan (talk) 17:45, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Let see, now: User Taron Saharyan seems to have some problem to express himself in English, instead he prefer to speak only in Russian. While I can understand Russian it is not the case with many other Wikipedian users. Anyway, User Taron Saharyan expressed his views in his map version (Map version 2). He presented some references for his map, but the problem is that border lines in his references are not matching border lines in his map version. and this is his reference - I see significant difference in border lines in these two maps. Therefore, he either used some other reference which he did not listed or his map is simply his own original research, which is not supported by Wikipedia policies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research Another Wikipedia policy is neutrality and presentation of all valid viewpoints about the subject if there are such. I conducted my own research about Shaddadid borders and I found several sources about this:
 * http://www.azerbaijan.az/portal/History/HistoricalMaps/images/hist_map_12_e.jpg (Azerbaijani source)
 * http://liveweb.archive.org/web/20170103223858/http://www.armenica.org/history/maps/108Seljuk11-12cen.gif (Armenian source - currently used in this article)
 * https://remmm.revues.org/docannexe/image/3331/img-1-small640.jpg (French source)
 * http://www.turksolu.com.tr/256/foto/izady2b.png (Kurdish source in Turkish language - author: Izady)

So, the Wikipedia policy of neutrality requires that we present all these opinions in this article, not just Armenian one. Therefore, inclusion of multiple maps which presenting different viewpoints would be the best solution. 109.121.34.254 (talk) 09:50, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

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Shaddadids and Şadıllı
Hello all! I think the link between the Shaddadids and Shadilli Kurdish tribe can be mentioned in the article. Any opinions user:Paradise Chronicle, user:Redthoreau? 176.54.42.64 (talk) 05:07, 3 February 2021 (UTC)