Talk:Shahbag

FA Drive
How about an FA drive for the article? I can ask some others to take a look before putting it up for FA. --Ragib 02:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I have posted a request to take a look at the article to some of the better editors who might take an interest. Following are what I've got back, let's see how we can make use of these great suggestions. Aditya Kabir 09:25, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi Aditya, I took a very quick look at the article. Will take a more in-depth look later. Off the top of my head, here are some thoughts. First, the pictures are great; second, there are definitely enough topics there; third, the article needs narrative. The third point, for me, is the most important. For example, the educations section reads: The major academic bodies around Shahbag Intersection and in Shahbag Thana includes Dhaka University, Dhaka Medical College, BUET, Bangladesh Civil Service Administration Academy, BSMMU, Art College, Institute of Management, IBA, Institute of Modern languages, Udayan School, University Laboratory School, and Engineering University School.
 * Fowler&Fowler:

There is nothing in the text above that grabs an average reader (who likely won't know anything about Dhaka, let alone the Shahbag neighborhood). The article has to make the transition from lists to narrative. One way to do this would be to temporarily replace a name, for example, "Dhaka University," by text that says something interesting about the name. For example, "Since the early 19th century, the Shahbag intersection, has been the hub of intellectual life in the city. Today, it home to a technology park ..." Obviously I'm making this up, but you get the idea. Fowler&amp;fowler «Talk»  03:58, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The article needs a lot of work. =Shopping= is too touristy and needs to go. The article needs some more content. And I saw a glaring error on the page. The latitude is shown as 30 °N and as far as my knowledge of Bangladesh goes, that's too high! =Nichalp  «Talk»=  13:52, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Nichalp:

Can you structure the article roughly according to Waterfall Gully, South Australia. Subsections and galleried should be eliminated. For the coordinates, try using google earth. =Nichalp  «Talk»=  05:07, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Shahbag in Tibet
Someone has placed in Tibet,in the Google Earth, the Wikipedia logo for this page about Shahbag. 14 march 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.36.228.226 (talk • contribs)


 * That must be the mistaken coordinates that was on the page earlier. It has been corrected. So, someone now can take a corrective measure at this Google Earth debacle. Aditya Kabir 09:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Comments preceding FAC
A lot of the prose needs greater care and citations. Here's some comments to get you started:


 * References are neither alphabetized or in any standard format (MLA or Chicago Manual of Style).
 * redlinks like New Market in the infobox, and Arnold Zeitlin. Need to create stub.
 * There's an external link in the infobox without a name
 * "As of 2004", old enough that this clause seems out of place. And is this really the second most important sentence of the article?
 * "newly-developed city" what city are we talking about here?
 * "both in geographic and historic term" over-wordy, historic part seems subjective
 * Thana captilised or not? Both appear in lede
 * "historical, political, infrastructural, academic, cultural and religious." quite a list. I'm sure this is explained more in the body, but maybe some concrete reasons here and not a big abstract list if we're going to include it in the lede.
 * "unique shopping experience" POV
 * seems to say "the neighborhood" a lot. Would probably flow better with either the proper noun or pronouns most of the time.
 * "The earliest historical evidence from the Shahbag area is available from two tombs" I'm not sure what this means. Rephrase please?
 * Need more inline cites in the history section. Where is this info from?
 * "fascinated by the splendour of the flowering garden, the serpentine lake running from it and the numerous ponds and palaces" POV, certainly needs a cite.
 * Look out for add-on sentences (often with the words "in addition" or "also"), e.g. "Katabon Mosque, an important center for Muslim missionaries in Bangladesh, is also here." and "Shahbag is also marked for its unique shopping experience" (also POV).
 * There seems to be a fair amount of sentence like "The national radio Bangladesh Betar used have its office in Shahbag." that, in addition to the obvious grammaticaly error, have little place in the flow of the paragraph or section.

Hope this helps! Best wishes, MarkBuckles (talk) 00:16, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

more
Was asked to comment again. Best wishes, MarkBuckles (talk) 20:36, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * References are still neither alphabetized or in any standard format (MLA or Chicago Manual of Style).
 * Redlinks still exist.
 * WP:NPOV violations. ex: "lost splendour of the gardens". "Unique markets" don't need to say unique, just tell us the facts. "The hammam (bath) and the hawakhana (green house) of this mansion earned rare praise from all."
 * Uncited material. ex: "the largest bookmarkets for imported and second-hand books in Bangladesh." (cited below but not in lede) "Built by Khwaja Salimullah in the memory of Pari Banu, his sister. In the times of decline of the Nawabs of Dhaka, Nawab Khwaja Habibullah, son of Salimullah, used to live here" ""The first zoo in Dhaka and the first office of Bangladesh Betar, the national radio, was established in Shahbag as well as the now-defunct race-course and the second electric power-plant in East Bengal." "the Garden of the Kings became a forgotten project."
 * Still lots of typos. ex: "Center of academic. cultural and intellectual activities on Dhaka," And this is the lede! Two typos in this sentence.
 * Prose is confusing. ex: "The earliest historical evidence from the Shahbag area is available from three pre-Mughal - Mariam Saleha Mosque" (supposed to be mosques?) still doesn't make sense. How is historical evidence available from a mosque? Maybe, the earliest "dated inscription", or something, but it's confusing. Another ex: "Shahbag is roughly the area between the Ramna Park and the Supreme Court of Bangladesh on east and the Elephant Road on the west, and between the University of Dhaka[16] and Suhrawardy Udyan (Suhrawardy Park, formerly the Ramna Racecourse) in the south and Hotel Sheraton and the Diabetic Hospital in the north." What? Maybe try "Shabag is bounded by. . ." instead of "is" to start with.
 * Highly recommmend reading User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a. It's very helpful and has many tips and exercises that would help improve this article.

areas need to be improved
I have gone through the whole article and found some of the parts that should be improved. Besides, this article demands some of the points to be added in order to give it a complete touch.


 * It started in a nice way but ended up with a messy style. I didn’t found any organized conclusion and I just felt all on a sudden it ends.
 * Shahbag’s importance related to our liberation war can be arranged with a separate sub heading. It will be more appropriate if we can provide a picture of Banga Bondhu’s 7-e March Speech on Ramna Rasecourse.
 * I personally felt this article demands two special pictures, 1. A picture of Dhaka University, if it is ‘Aporajeo Bangla’, that will be the best. 2. A picture of Ramna Park.
 * Ramna Bomb-explosion can also be a sub heading as it was (or is!) one of the burning issues related to this place. We should also mention terrorist’s fate and current undergoing investigation by the law-n-order force with in one or two lines.

Other than those parts, overall article is well written.

Regards, Niaz bd 05:46, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Mass Rapid Transit hubs
The following sentence in the lead is a bit unclear:

New Dhaka lies to the north of Shahbag, a major Mass Rapid Transit hubs,

Does the mass rapid transit hub refer to Shahbag or New Dhaka? If referring to Shahbah (as the sentence implies), it would be better to have it as the main clause in a sentence as the article is about Shahbag. Also, shouldn't "hubs" be in the singular form since it's talking about "a [single] major" rather than "several major"? Aktar Ahmed, 08:39, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks ... I've fixed it. --Ragib 08:43, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The use of "mass rapid transit hub" is misleading. There is no rapid transit (like the London Underground or Paris Metro in Bangladesh). "Rapid transit" is a special term and should be changed here to simply "transit" or "public transportation". --SameerKhan 02:25, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Map
The first paragraph in the Urban layout section describes the boundaries of Shahbag; however, some of the landmarks mentioned in the description are not indicated on the map. 1) Is Supreme Court of B. the same as "High Court" on the map? 2) Could someone add street names to the map? What part of the University of Dhaka forms the southern boundary of Shahbag?

It would be a good idea to have all the street/land marks mentioned in that paragraph also shown on the map. Thanks. Fowler&amp;fowler «Talk»  19:30, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Questions
I am making a list here of the issues relating to accuracy of information/logical flow in the article. Could people (in the know) please supply their answers here, and I will incorporate them into the text. Fowler&amp;fowler «Talk»  20:25, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Lead (1st par.) Are Old Dhaka and New Dhaka separate jurisdictions? And how are they different?  The original wording was "two distinctive parts of the city," which I changed (tentatively) to "two contrasting parts of the city," but I need to know how they are different.


 * Lead (1st par.) when did the development of New Dhaka begin? "Old Dhaka's reputation": what was it, and how did it wane?  Did Old Dhaka begin to get run down?
 * Those are not separate jurisdiction per administrative basis, but the older part of the city (pre-1947 neighborhoods) are considered Old Dhaka. Here are some publications that refer to the area by this common name. --Ragib 20:40, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The first paragraph of "Civic Life" says: "Shahbag is also home to the largest flower market in the country, which is located at Shahbag Intersection, as well as the largest animal market in the country, the Katabon Market. In addition, Elephant Road features a large shoe market and, Nilkhet-Babupura, a large market for bedding accessories."  What is the name of the flower market?  How big is it (how many shops)? What is an "animal market?" Is it a market for livestock? Or pets? Can we say something more about the "shoe market" and "bedding accessories" market? Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  05:39, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't recall whether the flower market has a specific name or nameless ... The Katabon animal market is actually a pet market, with exotic pets being sold (both legally and illegally). --Ragib 06:13, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Could we include a second map that shows where Shahbag is in relation to the rest of Dhaka? Something along the lines of this map? For example, could we include the just-mentioned map as a fair use image? I would be happy to label it with "Shahbag Thana," "New Dhaka," and "Old Dhaka," so that people have a better of the neighbourhood.   Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  14:32, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Ragib and Aditya, Does the lead seem longish to you (as some people suggested on the FAC page)? If so, I could prune it a little.  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  14:44, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Could we also include an image that gives a better visual of the neighborhood, say, something like this image? Again, I don't know if we can use it as a fair-use image or get the photographer's permission.  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  15:39, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Culture
Tried to integrate "Culture" section, in order to decrease choppiness. Please see. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 20:40, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Congrats
Congrats to everyone for making this a featured article.--Dwaipayan (talk) 04:35, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

More change
I've made some important structural changes to the article. I still feel it needs the following:
 * Copied and pasted from User talk:Aditya Kabir

=Nichalp  «Talk»=  16:52, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) District it comes under/ ward that comes under in urban layout
 * 2) Red dot on the locator map needs to be made larger.
 * 3) Who looks after the Thana, an officer?


 * We might try adding new ref-links as well, like the Daily Star article here. Aditya Kabir 11:12, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * This Daily Star article has more information. Aditya (talk • contribs) 18:05, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Picture
I'd like to feature this on the main page but there are no good pictures. Can someone please get a nice, representative modern cityscape photograph? Raul654 (talk) 20:48, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Raul, you shouldn't TFA an article in this state... — Ed   (talk  •  majestic titan)  04:11, 18 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, the article hasn't changed at all (other than formatting/dab changes) since it was promoted to FA after an FAC discussion. So, would you care to clarify further? I mean, what leads you to think the article has (deteriorated/shouldn't be an FA) etc.? (I'm not being mean :), just curious about your opinion about the article condition). Thanks. --Ragib (talk) 04:15, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

C class?
Did it naturally slide down to C class when it was demoted as a featured article? Did the article degenerate that much? Did it degenerate later and subsequently was reassessed? Was there a reassessment effort? What really happened to all the classes between featured and C classes? Aditya (talk • contribs) 04:06, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Removed original research from lead
I have moved the following sentence here from the lead: "Developed in the 17th century during Mughal rule in Bengal, when Old Dhaka was the provincial capital and a centre of the flourishing muslin industry, the neighborhood was originally named Bagh-e-Badshahi (Persian for Garden of Emperors), but later came to be called by the shortened name Shah (Persian:شاه, king) Bagh (Persian: باغ, garden)."


 * The body of the article doesn't mention Bagh-i-Badshahi. Until it does, a statement about it doesn't belong in the lead.
 * The cited source only substantiates that a garden named Bagh-i-Badshahi existed. It does not say that it's the same neighborhood as Shahbag, that the area was developed in the 17th century, or that it's name was shortened to Shahbag.
 * Banglapedia contradicts the "same neighborhood" assertion, describing Bagh-i-Badshahi as a separate area to the east, across Ramna from Shahbag.
 * Banglapedia traces the name Shahbag to 1875, when Abdul Gani named his garden-house that. It's plausible that he did so as a nod to the name Bagh-i-Badshahi, but without a reliable source it's original research.

--Worldbruce (talk) 01:51, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

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