Talk:Shahbaz Bhatti

This article is 32nd g-hit
Checked a moment ago, this article is the #32 hit for "Shahbaz Bhatti" on Google. MatthewVanitas (talk) 19:02, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

In order to provide value to readership beyond that which is found in every major news article, I suggest we dig for further back info on Bhatti, in order to form a more comprehensive picture of his life prior to the assassination, and provide better context. MatthewVanitas (talk) 19:04, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

This article was only created this morning, i.e. the morning of Wednesday March 2 2011, and I see already that people have worked hard on improving it. So keep up the good work, Wikipedians! ACEOREVIVED (talk) 19:46, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Was Bhatti "minister for the defence of minorities", "minister for minorities", or "minister for religious minorities"? Does his ministry concern itself only with religious minorities?

Up to 6th g-hit
Wow, article is really fleshing out. I submit this would also be a good time to fill in a few redlinks related to the case, such as the groups Bhatti was part of. Also the Exit Control List is apparently mentioned in several articles (including Asia Bibi, the woman sentenced to death under the blasphemy law), and we don't have an article on that yet. MatthewVanitas (talk) 21:57, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

22,100 hits on 3 March
Just in case folks aren't familar with stats.grok.se, this page got 10,000 hits on the 2nd and 22.1k on the 3rd (link). This article could still be improved a little, but every single edit someone makes here is helping to flesh out this biography for thousands of readers this week. MatthewVanitas (talk) 07:51, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Reactions of various countries
World community condemn Bhatti’s murder - http://www.dawn.com/2011/03/03/british-pm-condemns-unacceptable-pakistan-murder.html -Abhishikt 19:54, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * More Kittybrewster   &#9742;  18:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Martyr . Kittybrewster  &#9742;  14:43, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Full name
There are plenty of sources that give his full name as Clement Shahbaz Bhatti - - but most of them seem to be blogs, and many of them (predating his death) seem to be hostile towards him, suggesting that the full name may be being used so as to highlight his cultural background. The best source for that name is possibly this - but, again, a blog. I haven't changed the full name in the text as the sources seem to me not to meet WP:RS and the name may be contentious - but any thoughts, or better sources, would be welcomed. Ghmyrtle (talk) 23:24, 3 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I could be totally off with this, but I saw the same blogs and had assumed that "Clement" was a title of some sort, like "Brother" or "Pastor", or honorific like "Honorable". Have you seen it anywhere other than Pakistani Christian blogs? MatthewVanitas (talk) 07:53, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I need advice from the Pakistani community (or those more knowledgeable than me) about this, but I think that Catholics in those countries would have been baptised with a Christian name, in addition to the name more usually used in their local language. See, for example, Raymond Saeed and Francis Nadeem.  I agree that we should not include it until we see a more reliable source (such as an obituary).  Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:32, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I've undone an edit by User:Kittybrewster which added the name "", sourced from this site. It's strikingly obvious from that site that many of the editorial contributions before Bhatti's death are very hostile to him (for reasons of internal politics within the Pakistani Christian community, it seems) and almost all of its articles, including that one, are written by one person.  It's also notable that the report on that site of his death itself - here - does not use the name Clement.  I think we need more reliable neutral information before including it.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:00, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. anyway we use commonly used names rather than full names by convention here on wp.  for example Bill Clinton instead of William Jefferson Clinton.  would not oppose creating a redirect for the full name to this article. --Wikireader41 (talk) 15:16, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes - the point I was making related to the opening para and infobox, where we would put the full name if known. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:47, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I've now raised the question at Wikipedia talk:Notice board for Pakistan-related topics. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:21, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I can't speak specifically for Pakistanis but I can say Catholics can be baptised and confirmed with Chinese names only, usually without issue in Malaysia and New Zealand. (I'm pretty sure this is the same for basically any name.) In the specific case of Chinese name onlt it doesn't tend to be common practice but I know from personal experience it's possible. (Ironically older Malaysian Chinese priests seem to have more problems than European New Zealand ones.) Incidentally AFAIK Raymond doesn't occur in or originate from the bible and while there are saints with the name, the only reason they became saints is I presume because someone who was Catholic had that name and became a saint. So Raymond is arguably no more a Christian name than Shahbaz. Nil Einne (talk) 22:17, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Guardian obituary uses his full name as Clement Shahbaz Bhatti--Wikireader41 (talk) 00:44, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Bhatti's secret routine
An interesting article here talks about whether the gunmen knew about Bhatti's "secret routine;" apparently, he never lived at his official residence but at a family rented house and even his security staff were never aware that "he used to slip from the backdoor into a private car for his actual residence in I-8/3 with his mother and return the same way in the morning.” This showed that he was keeping his actual address secret, as “he did not even trust his own security guards, particularly after the killing of Salmaan Taseer,” said Bhatti’s brother-in-law. Is this important enough to be added in the article? Mar4d (talk) 14:11, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Possibly. even though express tribune is a RS I would like to see some other sources say this also. Personally I would not be surprised at all if it comes out that his driver is the one who betrayed him. Do we know if the driver was Muslim or Christian?--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:14, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Spouse
The source for spouse at present is a newspaper article about somebody demanding to be recognised as Shahbaz Bhatti's widow; an article which puts 'widow' in speech marks in the headline and refers to her as his "self-proclaimed widow". Is this sufficient of a reliable source (given that the source itself seems sceptical of, or at least non-committal about, the claim) to include this as the name of "spouse" in the infobox without further ado? --Andreas Philopater (talk) 08:59, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
 * This article uses the word 'wife' without any speech marks: http://www.thefridaytimes.com/tft/meeting-salma-bhatti/ This article says he never married.  http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pakistani-diocese-opens-cause-for-shahbaz-bhatti-to-be-declared-a-martyr-84438/ And this article says she was married to him but his family didn't recognize the marriage: https://tribune.com.pk/story/766901/shahbaz-bhattis-wife-claims-death-threats-by-his-family/ So it's an open question. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 21:37, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

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External links modified
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