Talk:Shakeel Begg

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Hi Hedge89 : you wrote:

"E.g. from the introduction: 'He is extremely influential among followers of hardline conservative Islam in the UK.'. Is he? How do we know this? How do we justify the use of language like 'extremely influential' instead of merely saying 'influential'?"

I;ve taken your advise and removed that sentence.

I also feel that the use of constant block quotes, references to youtube videos and the structure of the sections in the article need some going over, though I'm going to have to spend some time in front of the WP:MANUAL before I know how to properly arrange stuff.

Well Wiki does not like OR: so blockquotes direct from sources - is as far from OR as you can get!

I've spent many hours, locating his various speaking engagements, speeches and videos: so as to show the range of his activity over the years.

Begg is a prominent preacher: so links to his own sermons is entirely neutral: there is no commentary on his sermons, just links to them. And in one place, links to other Muslims who took a critical view of one of his sermons.

It did strike me that there is no Wiki page as yet for Lewisham Islamic centre - which is a prominent Mosque in the UK. Not sure I have time for that right now!

"This is not personal, we're all just trying to make wikipedia the best it can be. Either respond here or on my talk page and we can work out how to bring this up to standard."

No worries, I appreciate you taking time to comment -it has helped to sharpen the page and to help me to find sources round it out more. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CanterburyUK (talk • contribs) 11:37, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Neutrality question

"considering all coverage sources are mainly about the BBC event and my own searches are finding only news about that, nothing else; the listed sources here as it is are not fully convincing or from a major news source,"

Well the BBC is a major news source - there are several sources form them: and form other respected UK newspapers etc.

In addition, the page sources the actual Court hearing documents from the official source:  so it doesnt get more 'horses mouth' than that!

Regards Begg's long career as a respected Muslim speaker:  I have spent considerable time to google and find a range of his output: and that is from  a range of sources:  YouTube and from various Muslim organisations.

and the few that are, are minimal and few with only information about the event itself.

What kind of extra information would you think would help? I know Wiki hates OR, so don'lt want to be writing a commentary here: rather I have shown very many sources: so the reader can go check out the details there.

"There's no inherited notability from anything or anyone else, and the position suggests nothing of actual Islam-world significance for there to be notability from that alone.".

Inherited notability? If you mean use of Wiki categories: I do find that rather opaque, not finding it easy to know what Categories exist even: but did find some. Feel free to add better categories if you are able!

Regards 'Islam-world significance':   this was a court case in the highest court in the UK! With the Uks's most prominent media broadcaster in the dock! So that makes it significant. The subject matter was around the definition of what an islamic extremist is:  that has never been covered at court before in suc. It will set a legal precedent for future cases in that direction. So whether islamic-world significant or just Islamic world in the UK: significant: more of thee latter I guess. Maybe I will edit the page to spell that out: as you;re right, the page does not make that explicit right now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CanterburyUK (talk • contribs) 11:47, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

I've removed the 'recentivity' template As I have added a top section to explain that Begg and his court case will have repurcussions into the future for future court cases within the UK Muslim communities.

I have also removed the POV one: as, the page now includes such a range of links to the source material of Beggs words and preaching: and there is no OR in any text in the page.

Do comment here if you think there is more to be done in that direction: I'll do my best to find more sources if you think that would round it out more. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CanterburyUK (talk • contribs) 12:04, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

Wiae - you've removed a bunch if links to his sermons ?

Your justification was: "(links to his preaching are probably irrelevant here; if they were cited for a particular purpose, that'd be okay, but here they are just an info-dump)"

But I;m not sure I understand. If he was an author -you'd list his books, even ones that were less significant and got no text in Wiki.

And Begg is a preacher - so the 'canon' of his work - in the most pure form are videos of his preaching! — Preceding unsigned comment added by CanterburyUK (talk • contribs) 14:59, 29 October 2016 (UTC)