Talk:Shakespeare Theatre Company

Request for comment
In my opinion this is an extremely informative article. What do others think? Please comment on this page as iam extremely interested to hear what others have to say.

Importance Rating
I would like to suggest that this article's Importance rating should be High. It is recognized as one of the top Shakespeare companies in the World. It has been invited to perform the The Oedipus Plays at the 2003 Athens Festival in Greece and Love's Labor's Lost at the RSC's Stratford on Avon facility (England). If this company does not rate a High importance, what company would?

Ecragg (talk) 23:07, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Additionaly The Shakespeare Theatre Company was the host for the National Theatre of Great Britain’s production of Phèdre featuring Helen Mirren Ecragg (talk) 17:26, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Moving Page
I would like to move the page Shakespeare Theatre Company to Shakespeare Theatre Company (Washington, D.C.)

The reasons are 1) there are many Shakespeare related theatres and Companies in the world and the Washington one should be distingquished from others 2) The new name would conform to the naming convention of the other theater pages associated with Washington DC region such as:
 * Arena Stage (Washington, D.C.)
 * Studio Theatre (Washington D.C.)
 * National Theatre (Washington, D.C.)
 * Lincoln Theatre (Washington, D.C.)
 * Lincoln Theatre (Washington, D.C.)

Comments please

ed

Ecragg (talk) 02:56, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:11, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Shakespeare Theatre Company → Shakespeare Theatre Company (Washington, D.C.) —

The reasons are:

1) there are many Shakespeare related theatres and Companies in the world and the Washington one should be distinguished from others

2) The new name would conform to the naming convention of the other theater pages associated with Washington DC region such as:
 * Arena Stage (Washington, D.C.)
 * Studio Theatre (Washington D.C.)
 * National Theatre (Washington, D.C.)
 * Lincoln Theatre (Washington, D.C.)

ed

Ecragg (talk) 22:19, 19 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Support Without some sort of disambiguation, it sounds like they should be located over here in the UK.  Ron h jones (Talk) 12:56, 20 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment I'm not aware of any other organisation of this name. Why not simply include a hatnote to the Royal Shakespeare Company? The Celestial City (talk) 16:11, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:PRECISION. The fact that there many "Shakespeare related theatres and Companies in the world" is irrelevant for article naming purposes if this is the only "Shakespeare Theatre Company", or even if it's the only "Shakespeare Theatre Company" with an article on WP. Note that there is already a Shakespeare Theatre disambiguation page, which could be linked from a hatnote to distinguish this company from similar names. Regarding the second point, about a naming convention for Washington theaters: Arena Stage was incorrectly moved last year by the proposer. In the other three cases, there is more than one WP article using the same title, so disambiguation may be appropriate. But there are other theaters in Washington that properly do not use a qualifier, such as Howard Theatre, National Sylvan Theater, Ford's Theatre and others. Station1 (talk) 08:53, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose No reason to disambiguate.  There appears to be only one Shakespeare Theatre Company.  The hatnote suggested by The Celestial City would be a good idea though.  Skinsmoke (talk) 13:04, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment -- There are several theatre companies including "Shakespeare Company", including the "Royal Shakespeare Company" at Stratford and other theatres; and "New Shakespeare Company" whom I saw in London once. A hatnote to a dabpage would serve well enough for those who entered this as a search term when looking for something other thena the Washingotn company.  Peterkingiron (talk) 21:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Hatnote to disambiguation page has been added

ed

Ecragg (talk) 17:02, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Received Awards
Listing critics' newspaper accolades seems inappropriate for an awards section. Generally, those are included in material about reception, or critics, etc. Also, the Wall Street Journal quote should be sourced to it, with the year indicated for the quote, or not used if you can't identify when it occurred.Parkwells (talk) 17:17, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Shakespeare :History
I have rolled back the history deletion for a second time.

In 1990+ news reports and articles, the Shakespeare Theatre at the Folger / Shakespeare Theatre Company claimed the pre Michael Kahn days as part of their history.

see:
 * http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2870783?uid=3739936&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102120628273
 * http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2870783?uid=3739256&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21103330888991
 * http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992-06-08/features/9202210127_1_shakespeare-theatre-lansburgh-theater-folger-shakespeare-library
 * http://www.clemson.edu/cedp/cudp/crow/htm/archives/PDFs/CrowXXII_05_Charney.pdf
 * http://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/04/theater/review-theater-kelly-mcgillis-stars-in-twelfth-night.html?src=pm

ed

Ecragg (talk) 01:49, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

None of the articles you quote demonstrate that the Shakespeare Theatre Company claimed the history of the Folger Shakespeare Library as a part of their history. The journal referenced shows only a confused writer.

The Folger decided to shut down their theatre company in 1985 and it was dissolved. Shakespeare Theatre Company was incorporated as a separate organization. How can you claim that an organization incorporated in 1985 has a history that precedes its beginning? None of the artistic directors you purport were ever employed by or paid by the Shakespeare Theatre Company. They were employees of the Folger Shakespeare Library.

The whole purpose of Wikipedia is crowd sourcing to ensure the most correct information. This is not your private repository of information - it is improper of you to consistently undo when others correct your mistakes.

Your rollback to your own version also shows an extreme disregard for the time spent and 18 changes made to correct grammar, formatting and citations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.241.155.29 (talk) 23:34, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * In 1990 they proudly announced their 20th season. Provide citation please
 * From the point of view of the subscribers, there was no change except for the name Citation? Your opinion is not relevant for wiki purposes. According to the IRS and the DC government (citations available) they were very different.
 * as of this year the Shakespeare Theatre is still using subscriber numbers issued by the Folger Theatre Group in the 70s red text with yellow background Untrue. Citation please.
 * I incorporated as many of your edits as I had time for. I will not roll back any grammer and other corrections.
 * the Folger Library did NOT dissolve the theatre, only their financial support for the company. The Shakespeare Theatre at the Folger was set up as an independent to allow donations etc. Part of the issue at the time was that the subsidy that the theatre required was less than the funding received by the library from the DC government Citation please - My citation says that the Amherst Trustees voted to shut down the theatre and STC was incorporated independently.
 * There was never a year without a season Irrelevant. 1985 was the final season of the Folger Theatre. 1986 was the first season of the Shakepeare Theatre Company. Just because each was performed in the same theatre does not make them the same organization.


 * Why are you so insistent on wiping out a proud history?

ed

Ecragg (talk) 00:20, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Because it's the history of ANOTHER ORGANIZATION!!! Put it on the Folger Shakespeare Library page where it belongs. Go to STC's website and read the history there. Go to their gift shop and read the book that was published about them recently for their 25th anniversary. Otherwise, why don't you call Michael Kahn and ask him yourself? ANd when you do, you should let him know that you have appointed and hired yourself as the organization's historian.

So which of the Folger Theatre artistic directors are you related to? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.241.155.29 (talk) 00:33, 18 June 2013 (UTC)


 * The STC website is a conflict of interest citation - non STC references are prefered
 * I have a copy of the of the book
 * My only connection with the STC is as a donor and a nearly 40 year subscriber - I lived through this history, including all the flyers for their 20th anniversary season featuring Kelly McGillis

ed

Ecragg (talk) 00:48, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

You still have no explanation why you continue to remove correct information based on direct sourced citations to substitute wrong information based on your memory and opinion. Find a "20th anniversary" citation online. What you will find is "25th anniversary" citations from 2011. Find a mention on Folger or STC's website that links the two organization. Opinions and memories are not valid wiki sources. I have done my homework and provided citations. Respect that and leave it as is or provide your own citations. This is not about your ego - this is about truth.

MFrederick106 (talk) 00:58, 18 June 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.241.155.29 (talk)


 * look at http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1992-03-04/features/1992064233_1_mcgillis-beatrice-shakespeare-theatre


 * also STC is still using Folger Theatre Group subscriber ID numbers for current subscribers

ed

Ecragg (talk) 01:06, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

YOU PROVE MY POINT!!! Your article talks about the 15 years since the Folger Shakespeare Library withdrew its support of the theatre. Why don't you look at http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/shakespeare-theatre-company-fetes-michael-kahn-in-25th-anniversary-season/2011/02/09/ABYfluQ_story.html which references 25 years? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.241.155.29 (talk) 01:09, 18 June 2013 (UTC)


 * "Withdrew Support", not "dissolved".
 * When I asked Michael Kahn about the "25 Anniversary season" at the time it was announced, he said that it was HIS 25th anniversary
 * And you have not addressed the fact that they are still using subscriber ID numbers originally assigned by Folger Theatre Group

ed

Ecragg (talk) 01:20, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Please cease your attempts to rewrite History
Your own New York Times citation, which I have retained, states that Michael Kahn's first year as artistic director was the 18th season for the theatre.

ed Ecragg (talk) 12:38, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Are you looking in a mirror, because this headline should be directed at yourself, idiot. The New York Time article states that The Shakespeare Theatre at the Folger, now Shakespeare Theatre Company, was incorporated in 1986. From that time to today it has been a separate organization. Anything that happened before that has nothing to do with this organization. If you want to document the history of the FSL and its own operations, put it on its page or create a page for the Folger Theatre.
 * The article states "The theater began its 18th season last week" - How would that be possible if it was brand new rather than reincorporated.

Please give up your Quixiotian quest to turn your misguided opinions into fact. Why don't you call the STC's PR department and ask them for information? 202-547-3230.
 * I have tried for several years, without success, to get them to upload a photo with appropriate rights of Michael Kahn for use in this article and in Michael Kahn (theatre director).

And why do you persist in wiping Robert Linowes name out of this article? There can be no dispute, as seen in all of these citations, that he led the effort to save the theatre and was the founding chairman of STC. Do you have something person against him? Is that why you are trying to obfuscate facts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.241.238.153 (talk) 16:51, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Done
 * and according to your own words "he led the effort to SAVE the theatre", not to start a new theatre.

A couple of more comments
1) I did not restore the Tony comment in the introductory paragraph due to the Neutral point of view policy. To refer to it as "tony award winning company" has marketeering overtones. The award is listed as a neutral fact later in the article.

2) Due to Conflict of interest an organization's PR (or marketing) department is the least desirable source. Even using the organization's website for citations is less desirable than using neutral third party citations.

3) The current Folger Theater is unrelated to the original Folger Theatre Group as there was a several year period during which the Folger Library brought in the touring company of the American Shakespeare Center (then known as Shenandoah Shakespeare Express). Only after that did they start producing their own shows with different actors, different subscribers and a different artistic director. I agree that the new Folger Theatre is deserving of a separate article in Wikipedia. I just don't have the time to write it.

4) May I request you abide by Civility

ed

Ecragg (talk) 04:38, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

I just don't have the time or energy to fight with an old, pretentious (thinks-he)-know-it-all asshole like you. I'll just wait for you to die and then correct the information.

Quite frankly, I'd like to meet you. It would be an honor to spend time with someone who thinks himself smarter than The Washington Post, The New York Times, Michael Kahn and most of the rest of the civilized world combined. You should publish an article about what makes you so much smarter and better than everyone else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.241.238.153 (talk) 02:22, 13 January 2014 (UTC)


 * In the April&May 2014 program for Henry IV Parts 1 & 2 the Cast Biography for Edward Gero (playing King Henry IV) states:
 * "STC (meaning Shakespeare Theatre Company): 30th Season and over 70 productions including ...".
 * If 2014 is his 30th season, then his first season was 1985, the year before you claim that the Shakespeare Theatre Company began. In their own programs the company acknowledges it existed before the arrival of Michael Kahn

ed

Ecragg (talk) 14:49, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

I am clearly not the only subscriber who dates back to the pre Michael Kahn days. See "Shakespeare is his wingman" in the 14 November Style section of the Washington Post.

ed

Ecragg (talk) 06:53, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

In the Washington Post story of his retirement, it is stated that "Kahn arrived in Washington in 1986 after tenures with the American Shakespeare Theatre in Stratford, Conn., and the McCarter Theatre in Princeton, N.J. The troupe then known as Shakespeare Theatre at the Folger was on the ropes, but under Kahn’s entrepreneurial hand the company swiftly raised the artistic bar and brightened the marquee with such luminaries as Kelly McGillis (an early mainstay) and Patrick Stewart (a race-reversed Othello)". The online story also references a 1986 story on Michael Kahn's arrival that explicitly states: "Kahn ... ss the newly appointed artistic director of the Shakespeare Theatre at the Folger (the fourth in the company's history) ..." It is clear that despite what some may claim now (30+ years later), the Shakespeare Theatre Company history includes the Shakespeare Theatre at the Folger

ed

Ecragg (talk) 23:58, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

In a letter to subscribers announcing the 2018-2019 season Michael Kahn stated "It has been quite a journey since I took over as Artistic Director in 1986. Take over, not start; You only take over an existing company.

ed

Ecragg (talk) 18:00, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

In the "Farewell to Michael Kahn event on 16 June 2019 his first Managing director made some comments alluding to his joining an existing theatrical company, not starting a new one. Further her resume lists her as "Shakespeare Theatre at the Folger, 1980-1990" - s single job.

Ecragg (talk) 23:10, 21 June 2019 (UTC)