Talk:Shakugan no Shana/Archive 1

Clean Up
This article needs some serious cleaning up. I spent several hours today working with the grammar (trying to make it sound natively English), but there's just too much for me to do alone. To whoever edited the page in the middle of my long edit, oops.

Additionally, some pictures and an info box would be lovely. The Cowboy Bebop page is a great example of how the page should look, but I simply don't have the coding knowledge to do it myself.

Hopefully others can help, as I'm clearly over my head with the amount of editing needed to make this article really good. Don Warren 04:10, 21 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for working on this. The Shana article has pictures for nearly every episode, but I agree that this article can look better. I think an infobox like the one in the Cowboy Bebop article would look great at the top of this page. It is only a matter of copying and pasting the code, but I don't know all the details about Shana, so I wouldn't be able to fill the box in with the required information. McSnuffy 23:47, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

This article is in serious need of someone with a set of pruning shears and some orginizational skills. And while image caps are good, there is no need to include one from every episode. --TheFarix (Talk) 02:48, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * How about we stop having caps for each episode and place more pictures in various places throughout the article instead? It would look a bit more "balanced" that way. McSnuffy 03:20, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I added the info box, may add novel/manga info later, someone check if the last episode was really aired on march 22, 2006 for me? Also did some minor grammatical and formatting changes. Delphi00 04:23, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * "Flame Hazes and Lords of Guze" and "Tomogara and Rinne" needs some major reorganization work. Minor characters should probably be moved off onto their own subpage leaving just the major characters on the main page. I also think the terminology could use its own subpage, but not before taking out the fancruft first, such as "Kari kari, Mofu Mofu" and "Shut up, Shut up, Shut up". The only terms that should be kept on the main page are those directly mentioned somewhere else in the article that needs more then just an inline explanation. --TheFarix (Talk) 05:20, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Definately, and should the Flame Haze be together with teh Lods of Guze? Because now, you always have to specify whether the person is a flame haze of lord, if they each got it's own section would be nice. And in the Other section, why is there only one Mistes, maybe he can be moved to the Torches section too. And we definately need to only concentrate on the main characters first. Delphi00 06:15, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps, but first you need to sort through which ones are important and which ones are minor. Or you can put what they are inside the character descriptions. That way, you can freely sort the characters by order of their importance or order in which they appear. --TheFarix (Talk) 13:40, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I can do that, but my order of importance might be different than yours but feel free to change them as you see fit, what are you planning on modifying in this article? Delphi00 19:03, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't know much about the characters themselves since I haven't seen the series. But the next thing I may do is try to merge most of the VAs to the bottom of each character description, and maybe work on condensing the media information near the bottom. --TheFarix (Talk) 23:02, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

That takes care of my big edits. The rest will have to be taken by someone who knows the series. --TheFarix (Talk) 01:37, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

It looks a lot better now. I removed "Melon Bread" "Urusai" and "The sound Shana makes while eating" from the terms section. They aren't exactly terms and are pretty pointless to begin with. McSnuffy 02:04, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * One more thing that could be done would be to clean up the seemingly random use of kanji throughout the article. At the very least fix them to where they meet the guidelines in Manual of Style (Japan-related articles) --TheFarix (Talk) 03:03, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I hope no one minds, but I've done a bit of correction to grammar and spelling here and there, as well as added some information I thought was pertinent. Art is life and life is an art. 22:26, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Seriously, the first part of the story portions and such are way to wordy/descriptive for an encyclopedic article. It reads like a cheesy advert. Cinnamingirl (talk) 06:22, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm glad that you feel the need to post in a thread that's over a year and a half old, but please, if you find problems with the article be bold and rewrite the aforementioned section yourself.--  十  八  07:58, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

There should also be a note made in the article about the Australian distribution company Madman acquiring the distribution rights to the series before Geneon went under and is the only company stocking the english dubbed series. Proxyone —Preceding comment was added at 17:19, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Movie
At the very end of ep.24, there's a mention of a movie in the works, anyone have more info about that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.224.47.18 (talk • contribs)

No information really, released date is unannounced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiggly (talk • contribs)

The only thing I can get is that the movie will be released in 2007. (Source: Shakugan no Shana Official Site(Japanese)) --Yiksung 12:05, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I heard it'll premire in april at the Dengeki Bunko film showing. Whatever that is. Shouldn't shakugan.com have some information on this? Perhaps an exact date to go along with that trailler? -Kilobite

The movie is being scheduled for release on 2007-04-21 (which was stated on AnimeNewsNetwork.com). --User:Astroboiii

Character bios
I've tried to do some copyediting with the character bios in order to remove fancruft and found out just how clumsily written they are. Many of the bios need to be completely rewritten, particularly those on the Tomogara and Rinne. I also think that some of the translated terms could be simplified in order to avoid confusion. Such as "Power of Existence" could be simplified to just "Essence." --TheFarix (Talk) 02:28, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I object to renaming "Power of Existence" to "Essence" in the article. "Power of Existence" comes from the term "Sonzai no Chikara" used in the original work -- sonzai = existence, chikara = power. So "Power of Existence" is less confusing and closer to the author's original expression. —Tokek 16:05, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * While "Power of Existence" is a literal translation, it is clumsy in English. It should be simplified to make the article easier to read. --TheFarix (Talk) 21:31, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I tend to agree with Tokek on this one, although the translation I suspect mainly come from the fansubs, I think this is the general accepted term. Using 'Essence' would confuse a lot of people on this one. Is there an official english version website for this anime? TheFarix, you should consider watching the series first, it's really not bad, only 24 eps. But you are also right in the respect that the original page was really clumsily written by someone who's first language was obviously not english. Some of the sentences are not simple grammatical mistakes, sometimes I don't even know what he meant to write in the first place. Delphi00 22:16, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Edited some grammatical errors in the Tomogara bios'. Any of you have ideas as to where I can find small pics of each character? My next step to the edit would be the group each character in the order of important for each category. Delphi00 01:58, 30 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I got small pictures of characters by taking screenshots with Fraps and VLC's built-in capture feature and then resizing them in Photoshop. I can take more if you need some. McSnuffy 02:19, 30 March 2006 (UTC)


 * No, it's fine if you have the pictures, I guess you can just insert them in the character bios' as you see fit. Delphi00 23:16, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Here are the small pictures of characters come from the Japanese official site--Yiksung 12:11, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

For Hecate's true name, considering her nature is a void that eats everything that came inside, isn't it more appropriate that "Itadaki" in her name is translated as "to Receive" than "Highest positioned" ?

Can anyone translate the information about "Sairei no Hebi" from the Japanese page ? 131.107.0.106 09:07, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Novel info?
Should any more information about the novel series be included in this article? The article is currently lacking in plot and character details from the novel. I've read the novel series (up to volume 11), so I could write something about them. --Shimei 06:00, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Please do, this would be most beneficial! --Remy Suen 20:21, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. Any information at all on the novels would make this entry more complete.  --Rex —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.105.253.43 (talk) 09:43, 3 February 2007 (UTC).

Should the plot section or the character bios be expanded to include material from the novels? My only concern is that there would be MAJOR spoilers involved, like situational and alignment changes for major characters. Such spoilers would undoubtedly ruin it for most users of the article, as they're probably only watching the anime with subtitles for lack of proficiency in Japanese. --71.245.108.44 09:22, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Splitting
This article is currently 38 kilobytes long, which exceeds the general recommendation of an article's size being 32 kilobytes long. I feel that the characters and terms section should be split out into separate articles similar to what Xenosaga does with a list of protagonists, antagonists, terms, places, etc. I think that if not the characters, the terms section should definitely be extracted. Viewers that just happen to pass by are not really going to care about every single one of Friagne's treasures. What's important to them is the general plot and what kind of characters the main characters are to see if the novel/manga/anime is worth reading/watching. For instance, Yukari simply plays a role in the beginning and is then (obviously) ignored after the brief "introduction" to the story, do we really need to include her here? Characters like her should be moved off so that this article doesn't get too long. --Remy Suen 20:21, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I've created a List of characters in Shakugan no Shana as a subpage on my own account. I'm thinking that maybe some more characters like Eita and Keisaku could also be extracted out, but this is the kind of idea I'm shooting for in terms of thinning out the characters' section. Comments are definitely welcome! Just a note though, the template at the bottom of the page can be ignored for now as I don't know whether there's necessarily sufficient content to feed that many articles, but anyway... --Remy Suen 20:17, 3 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The List of terms in Shakugan no Shana article has now been created. Please help contribute if you can! --Remy Suen 14:18, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

OVA
I've read some posts at Animesuki's thread that seems to indicate an OVA is in the works. I haven't been able to find a reliable source text and/or image, does anyone have any ideas? --Remy Suen 15:15, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Please add Shakogan no Shanatan Begins! to the anime list. AFAIK, It's an omake to the second season? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.72.90 (talk) 21:27, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's already included at List of Shakugan no Shana episodes, episode 4.--  十  八  00:24, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Redirect
For some reason, searching for the given name Shana redirects to this page. While I can understand that there is no page that actually speaks about the derivation of the name, I can't understand exactly why it would be set to automatically redirect here... Not that this article isn't interesting or anything, but it does seem faintly presumptuous to send everybody looking for the meaning of the name here. 66.81.157.80 01:43, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I have expanded the article Shana to the best of my ability. Not too bad considering there's really not much on it. -- (  十八  |   talk  ) 09:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I know its a little issue, but isn't this artice should use the title "Shakugan No Shana" instead of "Shakugan no Shana"? It's the japanese name romanized, still, I think writing "No" would be better. I never understood why "and", "or", "of" is written with small letters. Anyway. Rev-san 15:08, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's a typical style convention when writing titles in English. Unless a country has a particular scheme of capitalization that differs (as in French or German, for example), it's usually customary to apply the same rules as English to titles in other languages as well. Since the title isn't written in Romaji, it's easiest to apply the same principles here. --Julian Grybowski 15:59, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * But isn't it licensed in English as Shana? Shouldn't it be located at Shana (anime)? --Wirbelwind ヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 17:28, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * But even in that case, the title "Shakugan no" is over the main "Shana" title, so it's still applicable. Plus, more people probably know of this series by the full Japanese name "Shakugan no Shana" than just plain "Shana".-- (  十八  |   talk  ) 21:17, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, "Shakugan no" is over the main "Shana" on the DVDs, but the manga is licensed as just Shana, I believe. But yea, I'd rather it be at Shakugan no Shana in either case. --Wirbelwind ヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 05:19, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

List of Episodes?
An article or articles detailing episodes of Shakugan No Shana sounds like a good idea.- R.G. 05:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * If everyone's okay with it, I'll have the complete list, summaries and episode screenshots up in the next few days. At that time, I will create the List of Shakugan no Shana episodes.-- (  十八  |   talk  ) 06:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * There, I'm done.-- (  十八  |   talk  ) 18:34, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Season Two Confirmed
This is not an April Fools joke. Season two is confirmed to start broadcast on autumn 2007.

I have valid and credible sources and evidence to support this claim.

You can check for yourselves on the two following links below to discern that I am no making this announcement as a farfetch'd story.

http://www.shakugan.com/

http://www.shakugan.com/diary/topics.cgi

The sites are in Japanese though, and season two is referred for the moment as Shakugan no Shana 2. Guido MTY 17:29, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Added a third link to support with undeniable evidence that season two is a FACT. http://ascii.jp/elem/000/000/026/26373/ Guido MTY 17:37, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Omake Episodes
The article currently lists the three omake episodes as being included in the first, fifth, and eight DVDs. This is not entirely correct (and is false in the last case). The two Shana-tan DVDs were included in two separate DVDまがじんs that came with the first and fifth volumes if you were lucky. There are a limited amount of these and so some people that ordered some time after the DVDs were released may not have been able to acquire them. The DVD that included Hecate-tan was bundled with the アニメ『灼眼のシャナ』ノ全テ book and was not in the 8th volume. One note to factor in is that according to some sources, it appears that the two Shana-tan episodes will be included in the sixth volume of the R1 DVD.

I am not sure as to how to properly edit all of this information in to the current wording at the moment, so I am hoping that someone else will be able to take a stab at it. For those that are unaware, the R2 releases bundles 3 episodes at a time and the R1 releases bundles 4 episodes at a time, which explains the difference in "volume count" between the two releases. --Remy Suen 22:43, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I have reworded the section in question. --Remy Suen 15:07, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup towards a GA
In response to Rcjsuen, I'll start a list of things that need to be dealt with for the article to be up to GA standards.


 * Lead should be trimmed down to a summary of things, and there should be only one or two full dates. Reducing redundancy would be good here, and three paragraphs would probably work best.
 * The quote in the plot section should probably go. I tried to add one in to Air (visual novel) once, but it got taken out sometime later; quotes aren't essential, and the quote given isn't even explained on how it has relevence to the plot.
 * Not sure about this, but for the termonology, I think the Japanese equivalents should be given as well.
 * I don't believe staff needs to be listed here, and I don't believe it gives any usefull information to the article. The animation production company and the director can be listed under the anime section, and the music director can be listed under music. Also, the episodes section can just be merged into the anime section; I'll do this now.
 * Increase reception to include light novel reviews since it's the source material.

Everything else seems to be in order for GA; shouldn't take long for the improvements, but since the GAC process is pretty slow lately, it'll be a while for it to get promoted (or we can ask someone to review it if we want to). Any other suggestions?--  十  八  03:19, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Sounds good to me. It does need some restructuring since the last two paragraphs at the moment are just kind of dangling there.
 * Yes, I agree. It is not exactly informative in any way and I don't think it is worthwhile to explain its relevance. I have done this.
 * So you mean bring in the Japanese characters? They do do this with Nanoha, not really too biased with either route personally.
 * Looks good, thanks.
 * This one may be a bit more tricky to accomplish.
 * New bullet: I'm guessing it's probably worthwhile to push the sales information of the manga and light novels down into the reception section? --Remy Suen 11:15, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, I mean to bring in the Japanese characters and use the Nihongo template; we already do this for Japanese names, so I don't think it's too much to ask for; all of the Japanese names can be found on the Japanese wiki page.
 * Yes, the sales information should be in reception IMO. And even though it may be difficult, the novels have been licensed by Viz, so if nothing else that shows that it was popular enough to gain a release in another language.--  十  八  00:38, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Censorship in light novels
Is it worth noting that Viz comics did a bit of cropping to the interior artwork in the light novels as a form of censorship? Surprisingly, I heard the manga was somewhat left alone when it came to editing.

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/8462/0003034rx6.jpg <-- Japanese page

http://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shanahu1.jpg <--  US page

Sera404 16:40, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

^Is that diagonal line in the second image where the artwork got cut off in the American one? --71.107.217.63 02:34, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Do note that the US version and the Japanese one have been bound and printed differently. Cutting a portion off the image is the only way to fit it on a single page. So far as I can see, it has nothing to do with censorship. Rexas 15:47, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Now there's a load of bull. Adding diagonal white space into an image makes it an obvious example of censorship. "Bound a printed differently," my foot.68.195.79.209 (talk) 14:14, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Term Usage
Question -- what "terms" did Geneon use in the anime (dub and sub) for this series? For example, did they use "Fuzetsu?" Or did they use "Seal?" AstroNerdBoy (talk) 09:01, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * In the manga, "Fuzetsu" is termed "Seal". Haven't seen the Geneon version of the anime yet since I'm in Aus (wonder what's gonna happen with Geneon-licenced anime?), so can't say for others :P I guess we will have to wait for the official releases of the manga. Highwind888 (talk) 01:50, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Are the English names of the Flame Hazes and Crimson Lords official? Some of the names are pretty long and weird... Is there a source for these names? The List of Shakugan no Shana episodes uses a different set of names (e.g. "Interpreter of Condolence" for Margery Daw), so which is correct? Highwind888 (talk) 01:50, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Removal of Romance and School life genre
Why was the romance genre removed? A fundamental part of the story is that Shana is in love with Yuji. Many of Shana's decisions revolve around this, and along with Kazumi's love for Yuji, romance is a large part of Shakugan no Shana. I agree with the removal of the School life genre, since there is hardly any aspects of it, but not the Romance genre. Highwind888 (talk) 08:27, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Most of the first season and second seasons revolved around this aspect of the series. The OVA was added to the first season just to bring more of it for other characters. In the second season when a new girl Konoe Fumina showed interest in Yuji they had an partial episode and an two entire episodes (Episodes 4, 5, and 6.) dedicated to how Shana and Kazumi were feeling jealous and had their questions answered by Margery Daw in the end. Also when they went to the amusement park, cooking a bento, and a major point in the whole school festival episodes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GrimoireMyst (talk • contribs) 15:05, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Magical Girl Category?
I don't think that this should be included into the magical girl category. There really isn't a magical girl theme here at all. Really no similarity that I can see. Not even sure Shana really wields much "magic"... --nyoro~! Highwind888 (talk) 00:55, 20 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it should be removed also. --Remy Suen (talk) 12:11, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I third the motion. It's about as magical girl as Wonder Woman would be classified as magical girl. --Wirbelwind ヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 15:12, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to ask but what is the content of the Director's Cut movie that is not in the normal movie? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.56.72.203 (talk) 18:59, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Terminology Addition?
Hi. It's me again (The one suggesting Engage Ring in the other page). I've been doing some translation from a Japanese encyclopedia on some of the terminologies used in SnS. I'll be happy to share it with you guys if you want it, since you guys helped us a lot in the area of the translation for the names of the characters. >.< I particularly find the translation for the Improvisational Poem of Slaughter amusing. =P. So there you go: SnS Mini Wiki. I'll edit it as I go along...--155.198.14.181 (talk) 15:07, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Novel Demographic
Shouldn't seinen be used for the novel demographic as well as for the manga? —Preceding unsigned comment added by AlucardNoir (talk • contribs) 16:06, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * In the case of light novels, we use either male or female; in the case of manga, it goes by the magazine the manga was serialized in. In this case, Dengeki Bunko a male light novel imprint, and Dengeki Daioh is a shōnen manga magazine (and Dengeki Black Maoh is a seinen manga magazine).--  十  八  21:27, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Is that actually the case in Japan? Hmm, doesn't seem right. Dengeki Bunko Magazine is a seinen light novel magazine, and Shana is serialized in it. And it's known that the novel main audience is towards young adults too. 66.74.134.185 (talk) 08:18, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * While I'm not refuting this, there was a certain amount of dispute related to this a while back, so it was decided by WP:ANIME to have male/female for novels, and go by the demographic of the manga magazines for the manga. This is because while manga magazine demographics can be easily sourced, it's harder to find an actual demographic for light novel imprints.--  十  八  09:54, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I see. It does feels out of place to have bit of inaccuracy for a simple thing as demographic, though. There are many light novels with known targeted audiences (for many reasons and factors), and would it not be more logical to edit them with their intended demographic, while leaving the unknown ones as male or female until enough data is collected? It will be somewhat of a hassle having two sets of demographics like that, but I believe having accurate edits is certainly worth the trouble. I would say this little issue should be discussed more, but hearing that WP:ANIME decided to go with male/female, then I suppose it has already been discussed about. Still, though... 66.74.134.185 (talk) 11:40, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Third Season Confirmed
JC Staff confirmed a third season is to air this fall http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/06/02/shakugan-no-shana-3rd-season-confirmed/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.180.27.54 (talk) 20:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Omake Update
When the archive was created, my note was deleted: there are now seven omakes and the anime section needs to be updated as to that. I don't have the DVDs, so I don't know which goes with what. CFLeon (talk) 20:15, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Margery Daw's title
Chanter of Elegies/Interpreter of Condolence

Someone please explain why she is listed as having two entirely different titles in the article. My undetrstanding is that Chosi no Yomite translated to Chanter of Elegies is the actual title, whereas Interpreter of Condolence resulted from a mistranslation by a fansub group. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.65.245.3 (talk) 14:19, 5 February 2010 (UTC)