Talk:Shamarpa

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Shamarpa (Tibetan: ཞྭ་དམར་པ་; Wylie: Zhwa-dmar-pa; literally, "Person (i.e. Holder) of the Red Crown")[1], also known as Shamar Rinpoche or more formally Kunzig Shamar Rinpoche is a lineage holder of the Karma Kagyu school of Tibetan Buddhism and the mind manifestation of Amitabha Buddha, He is traditionally associated with Yangpachen monastery near Lhasa. The first Shamarpa, Khedrup Drakpa Senge (1283–1349), was the principal disciple of the third Karmapa, Rangjung Dorje. Rangjung Dorje gave this disciple a ruby-red crown and the title Shamarpa, establishing the second line of reincarnate lamas in Tibetan Buddhism, Karmapa being the first. This is taken to be the fulfillment of a prediction of the second Karmapa, Karma Pakshi, who said "Future Karmapas will manifest in two forms". When the fourth Karmapa, Rolpe Dorje, returned the red crown to the second Shamarpa, he recalled Karma Pakshi's prediction, saying, "You are the one manifestation, while I am the other. Therefore, the responsibility to maintain the continuity of the teachings of the Kagyu lineage rests equally on you as it does on me."

This does not seem to be neutral point of view. I am no expert but consider that the name of the 'alternate candidate' is not given, and as well as the PRC, he is recongnised by Tai Situpa and tha Dalai Lama. This article, perhaps not suprisingly, is written by those who take the Sharmapa's POV in the Karmapa controversy rather than Tai Situpa's. I suspect the Tai Situpa faction would also dispute who is second in charge of the Kagyu lineage.

In any case, is an article on Sharmapa the right place to describe the Karmapa controversy? I suggest not.Billlion 19:47, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Hi Billion. Yes you're no expert and you're 'inverting' this :-) Sharmapa is certainly by long tradition dual holder of the Kagyu lineage. Tulku controversies are common in Tibetan Buddhism but certainly, by long tradition complicated by his exile and the ban on his tulkus, it is the Sharmapa who has the most influence on choosing the Karmapa. In any case the article references the Karmapa controversy. Rinpoche (talk) 11:31, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

School versus sect
Elsewhere in wikipedia we have refered to Kagyu Geluk etc as schools of Tibetan Buddhism rather than sects, so I have changed to school.

The position of the sharmapas as 2nd in political or spiritual importance within the Kagyu seem to be a matter of dispute between supporters of of the Sharmapa and those of the Tai Situpa.Billlion 06:34, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * It should be noted that this dispute is primarily the manufacture of Tai Situ's supporters as the spiritual position (of #2) has been unchanged for centuries and has been iterated by many Karmapa incarnations.Changchub (talk) 23:50, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, agreed, this is certainly so. Rinpoche (talk) 11:31, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

This article is biased by the view of the writer which is clearly a militant of Shamar Rinpoche

Some more information for the article, I think

 * Shamar Rinpoche
 * A brief account of the successive Shamarpa reincarnations
 * The Gyalwa KARMAPA Past and Present Tradition, The Shamarpa lineage
 * The 14th Kunzig Shamarpa Mipham Chokyi Lodro
 * The Karmapa - Shamarpa Lineage
 * The Shamarpa Reincarnations
 * H. H. the Gyalwa Karmapa H.H. the Künzig Shamarpa
 * Kunzig Shamar Rinpoche
 * Rangjung Dorje 1284 - 1339
 * The 2nd Shamarpa Shamar Khachö Wangpo 1350-1405
 * The Power Places of Central Tibet The Pilgrim's Guide
 * Austerlitz -- 88.75.73.188 (talk) 12:56, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

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controversy
Hi IP address: 81.185.163.229. You did a couple revisions on the page. Some were neutral and some were not (stating one candidate is the Karmapa while one is not). The Karmapa Controversy has its own page where details can be fleshed out. For Shamarpa page it makes sense to give a brief intro to controversy, which you did, and then point to the Karmapa Controversy page. Also in the future, please sign in to Wikipedia before editing controversial content. Badabara (talk) 19:03, 27 June 2020 (UTC)