Talk:Shamir (musician)

Pronouns
I'm consciously avoiding pronouns here in an attempt not to sway the discussion by starting it with any particular usage. I'm aware that this makes the following read fairly poorly.

There is some potential for conflict here on the subject of use of gendered pronouns on this article; I see the edit history does have some changes made on this basis. Shamir has on some occasions said that Shamir has "no gender". When asked what pronouns Shamir prefers, Shamir answered "He is fine but it really doesn't matter! What ever you want to use!" and also "call me what ever you want! I Dont care or get offended if you call me "her" or "she" because I proudly embrace my fem side". When asked specifically about "they" and "them", Shamir responded "no I'm one person Lol I really never got that term aha".

This article currently seems to tend toward "they" and related terms ("their", etc.), which from the above quote doesn't seem to be a designation preferred by Shamir. Is there a better solution here which doesn't go against either Shamir's preference or exclude by emission the nature of Shamir's gender identity? Should pronouns change throughout? Stick to one but with an explanation of Shamir's preference? Some other solution? 120.147.106.54 (talk) 07:36, 1 November 2015 (UTC)


 * It would be different if the subject was requesting everyone use non-gendered pronouns. Then we could have the usual Wikipedian debate.  But there is no argument here.  He is fine with the male pronouns and thinks they / their makes no sense since he is one person.  So can we just leave it that way?  It's gramatically correct, genetically correct, and fine by the subject of the article.  There is no basis then to switch it to something that makes no sense.  As of this writing, American English doesn't really have an appropriate non gendered singular pronoun.  Sorry.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.172.145.180 (talk) 05:44, 6 November 2015 (UTC)


 * [Edit conflict] My understanding of gender politics is that it is almost universally accepted (and policy here) that people get to self-define their gender and the pronouns that should be used in reference to them. The tweets you refer to make it a little problematic since Shamir does not really state a preference, other than to say that "they" and "them" is less preferred. So it seems a change is needed in the article but not quite clear what the change should be to. So I Googled a little anc found an interview from May this year where Shamir was asked about pronouns. Here is the exchange: "Do you have a preferred pronoun, do you get annoyed if people refer to you as ‘he’? Shamir: "I don’t have preferred pronoun, but if there was a preferred one, I probably would be 'he'." So based on this I would say the article should also go with "He", "Him", and "His". I am going to be bold and make the changes. 99.192.78.213 (talk) 05:54, 6 November 2015 (UTC)


 * I've updated the article to reflect the fact that Shamir has expressed a vague preference towards male pronouns and a dislike of singular they. Also included a couple of sentences explaining pronouns with citations.137.205.1.201 (talk) 02:01, 21 January 2016 (UTC