Talk:Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings/Archive 1

Principal photgraphy begun
Can we use this source to confirm that filming has begun? - Richiekim (talk) 01:53, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I think we could. It's not the best, but it does seem to be confirmation. I'll go ahead and add and move the draft. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 04:14, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Ronny Chieng and DiscussingFilm
So has DiscussingFilm become considered a reliable source now? I remember asking about it awhile back and it seemed then editors were a bit skeptical. If the perceptions changed, fair enough. Rusted AutoParts 15:39, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * In some cases, I think so. In this instance specifically the end of the article states When we reached out to Ronny Chieng’s reps for comment, they confirmed this story. So they are saying the actor's representatives confirmed the report, which is helpful in this case. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:08, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * It also mentions Michelle Yeoh in it, though I'm not sure if that's been confirmed. Rusted AutoParts  19:15, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * It has not, and as I said with the addition of Chieng, I think Discussing Film is just going off of the reports of her in the cast, not actually confirming. Hence, with that edit, we just added Chieng to the cast section, not Yeoh. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:48, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Principal photography end
We have a source from the director and star saying that filming wrapped in late October. However, shortly after the Disney investor meeting, Marvel Studios tweeted that production just wrapped. what do you all think? - Richiekim (talk) 00:17, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I’d go with comicbook.com. It’s the closest to an exact date. “Just” is a subjective term.—-TriiipleThreat (talk) 00:26, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Same, I'd stay with the late October end. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 01:16, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Agreed, I don't think these contradict each other, one of them is just more exact. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:43, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Dallas Liu
I saw some websites saying that Dallas Liu would be the young Shang-Chi. Hyju (talk) 21:42, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Do you have a reliable source to back that up? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:14, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I searched for it and didn't even find unreliable sources reporting it. —El Millo (talk) 21:02, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm just seeing results for the casting announcement that stemmed from Deadline. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:10, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Exactly, nothing on the role he'll play. —El Millo (talk) 22:13, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I misread your response Facu! - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:14, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

The tweet from 2014
Is this worth including? Sometimes joke ideas evolve into serious ones, and this looks like a situation similar to The Human Centipede (First Sequence). Kailash29792 (talk)  04:15, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:37, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

I think we should. This can give the audience some more background info on how Simu Liu got the role. It has some informative purposes IMO. I can add it once I get approval from you guys. Should I do it? Dcdiehardfan (talk) 04:56, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Abomination's name
Why would we not add the Abomination's real name (Emil Blonsky). My edits were reverted because his human form does not appear/is not confirmed to appear. But that does matter? It's still the same character. AxGRvS (talk) 16:09, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

For example, Red Skull's real name Johann Schmidt is on the Avengers: Infinity War article. AxGRvS (talk) 16:11, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * This is different from Red Skull in that the Abomination is Blonsky's alter ego, with a separate personality and physicality to Blonsky, similar to how the Hulk is the alter ego of Bruce Banner. Red Skull is just Schmidt with a deformed face, and therefore the same person with the same personality. IronManCap (talk) 16:36, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I think AxGRvS is right on this one. It doesn't matter whether Tim Roth appears or even if his voice is heard. We know for a fact that Abomination and Emil Blonsky are the same character. The physicality and personality being different is the same for the Hulk (at least it was until he became Smart Hulk), and actually in The Incredible Hulk Abomination was more like his human form than Hulk was personality-wise, since at least he could speak full sentences. Putting his name doesn't imply in any way that Tim Roth will appear. If it weren't Emil Blonsky, then it wouldn't be Abomination, or at least it would be some different incarnation of Abomination, in which case it wouldn't be a reappearance but a different character altogether. I've found two reliable sources that we could use for this:
 * Esquire:
 * Insider:
 * —El Millo (talk) 17:16, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * If Hulk showed up in a trailer with no confirmation of Bruce Banner appearing or Ruffalo's involvement then I think we would also be sticking with just Hulk in that scenario. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:17, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * But why? What's the line of reasoning that would lead to thinking Bruce Banner isn't Hulk in that scenario? Wouldn't the burden of proof be on providing evidence that Hulk, or Abomination, isn't in this case the same person as they were before if that's an already established fact? —El Millo (talk) 22:22, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * We have always treated Banner / Hulk and Blonsky / Abomination as mostly separate characters, unlike the Red Skull example where Johann Schmidt is just using a different name. So if we don't see Blonsky in the film then we probably shouldn't say that he is in it. If they refer to him as Blonsky in this form in the film then we could say it, but at the moment we only have a couple trailer shots to go off. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:30, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Oh, okay, so it's because we don't know if the name or his alter-ego is going to appear or be referred to in the film, the same way we don't list Bucky as "White Wolf" in films where he isn't referred to as such. —El Millo (talk) 22:37, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Adam articulated my thoughts on this perfectly. Remember WP:NORUSH. We've only just gotten a trailer, in which only the Abomination was shown, with no reference to Blonsky as Abomination or that Blonsky himself will appear, if he still is able to change between forms at will. If more info comes out, or even once the film is released, we can adjust as such. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:52, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

New poster?
Recently, a new poster for the film released. Should this be included in the article? Dcdiehardfan (talk) 05:47, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
 * If you mean inclusion in the infobox, it's already there. If you mean mentioning it in the Marketing section, per WP:TRAILER it isn't notable by itself, it should be accompanied by commentary on the poster to be notable. —El Millo (talk) 06:16, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
 * If you don't see the new poster version in the infobox you may need to WP:PURGE. - adamstom97 (talk) 06:36, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I did mean in the infobox to clarify. And the issue is fixed now, thanks Fauco and adamstom, I just forgot to refresh my page. 👍 Dcdiehardfan (talk) 06:42, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Trevor Slattery | Imposter Mandarin
Previous leaks suggested that Sir Ben Kingsley would reprise his role from Iron Man 3 as Trevor, thisseems to indicate the leaks were accurate. IMDB has a stunt double as part of the cast Can he be added to the cast list?

Semi-protected edit request on 13 August 2021
67.68.20.200 (talk) 10:53, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Dallas Liu in Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings Wikipedia is a teenage version of Shang-Chi. It is confirmed in the trailers.
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. IronManCap (talk) 14:08, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Trevor Slattery and Death Dealer
Ben Kingsley was confirmed to return as Trevor Slattery and Andy Le was revealed to be playing Death Dealer. AxGRvS (talk) 03:57, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Source: https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/shang-chi-casts-ben-kingsley-trevor-slattery/ AxGRvS (talk) 03:58, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

About Le, it was confirmed by himself and recently by Marvel on social media, but if you need a source there is one that shows a Instagram story by Awkwafina sharing Le's confirmation post. https://nerdreactor.com/2021/08/05/shang-chi-death-dealer-youtube-martial-artist/ AxGRvS (talk) 04:01, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Kingsley is already added. About Le, we have established that his Instagram post is not explicit confirmation, so we need something more solid. IronManCap (talk) 18:21, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 August 2021
Death Dealer actor revealed to be Andy Le, who co-runs MartialClub, a YouTube channel about traditional martial arts. OutrageousAnger (talk) 18:07, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:21, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Also, see above. IronManCap (talk) 18:21, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Budget
Has there been an announced production budget for this film yet? Spf121188 (talk) 12:11, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Notice for regular page watchers
Hi all. I was able to see the film last night at one of the fan events, so I have this and related MCU articles back on my watchlist and will keep an eye on things. I personally will not add anything deemed spoilery to the article until closer to the wide release, but if anyone wants to remove the page from your watchlists so you don't get spoiled by anything until you see it, feel free. If you want to discuss any non spoiler aspects of the film in the mean time, feel free to message my talk. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:18, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 August 2021
"She also praised the performance from Leung, who's sincerity in portraying Wenwu made him a "supervillain with a soul"

That should be "whose," not "who's." That needs to be a possessive pronoun, not a contraction. 2600:8801:8504:100:E825:4DCF:CB9C:CF78 (talk) 18:41, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:58, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Title controversy?
There has been some controversy with its title, as some countries such as China, is offended by the usage of Chinese letters in the 10 rings logo. There is more too, which is best summarized in this article:  https://www.variety.com/2021/film/news/shang-chi-ten-rings-logo-controversy-1235044551/. Should this be added into the article or is it not notable enough? Dcdiehardfan (talk) 04:06, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Already in the article in pre-production. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 04:16, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Budget of the film
There is no budget on the film. Should I add the budget? Seaweed Brain1993 (talk) 13:40, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Do you have a reliable, non speculative source for one? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:33, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

WGA credits
I simply want to put info that Callaham and Cretton are credited twice for screenplay, but because they don't appear twice in the film's credits, somebody doesn't want it. I'm not putting their names twice in the infobox either, I'm just putting a footnote, as it's a piece of info regarding the production. I really want to start adding notes in other articles that feature double writing credits, as it's an interesting bit. Iamnoahflores (talk) 00:17, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * As I've continually stated, this is unnecessary for a few reasons: 1) the actual film does not reflect these "double" credits, nor does Marvel's site, Marvel's "press block prose" given to various outlets, nor reviewers. We only need to relay to readers what the actual credits are; and 2) unless there is third party sources with commentary discussing the credits, such as in an instance of a dispute of credit (such as with Thor: Ragnarok) or a true "double" credit as has happened with Chloe Zhao on Eternals (film), this is just a WP:TRIVIA note which doesn't belong on Wikipedia. Save that for an MCU wikia. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:04, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Australian release delayed in some states
Think it's worth noting in the Release section that the Australian release has been partially delayed to 16 September (see here and here). There are probably higher quality sources around than these, however. Sean Stephens (talk) 10:53, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * The first source might work, but I can't see it since it's behind a paywall. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:07, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, sorry about that. Sometimes it's possible to Google search something similar and obtain the relevant information from the search result that turns up. If you can find any way of accessing it the "subscription required" parameter will be useful. I'll try and find alternative sources if possible. Sean Stephens (talk) 07:39, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I've added it in and was able to view its contents when making an archive of the site. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 13:12, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you, very much appreciated. Sean Stephens (talk) 14:55, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Xu Shang-Chi
The first track of the Shang-Chi score is titled "Xu Shang-Chi". For those who have seen the film, is there any indication that this the character's full name? InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:52, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
 * yes it is. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:44, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Edit needed in plot summary
Near the end of the plot summary it says: "Wenwu sacrifices himself to save Shang-Chi gives him the ten rings." This is a grammatical error. I would suggest "Wenwu sacrifices himself to save Shang-Chi and then gives him the ten rings." 69.114.204.215 (talk) 15:45, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Already done. —El Millo (talk) 17:15, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Adding Tsai Chin
Could we add Tsai Chin, the legendary actress under the cast, who played Wai Po? It's a big deal because this is also her second MCU role. Plenty of news articles note that she's part of the cast. Small5th (talk) 15:36, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Already done. —El Millo (talk) 17:15, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you!! Small5th (talk) 19:07, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

IGN article and credits
The IGN article on "How to watch Shang-Chi" has a cast listing but it stated that it got its information from IMDb. Should it still be considered reliable? AngusW🐶🐶F ( bark  •  sniff ) 12:43, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I had noticed that. We likely should not be using it in the long run, but for the time being, it does source the (last I checked) 2 uses in article, for one of the younger Xialing's and Morris. I'll put a "better ref" tag on it as a reminder and try looking for those better sources. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:07, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

PostTrak
Please add PostTrak to the critical response section. The reference already in the article includes both CinemaScore and PostTrak scores but only the former has been added so far. That's right after the CinemaScore in the first paragraph of the Critical response section. I'm not hung up on the exact wording but the semi request process says to be specific. Thanks. -- 109.78.204.92 (talk) 17:08, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Change X: scale. to
 * to Y: scale, and audiences surveyed by PostTrak gave it a 78% "would recommend" and 91% positive score overall.
 * This has been added in. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:22, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, I see it was added minutes after my edit request. -- 109.78.204.92 (talk) 18:29, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Inaccurate
"After fulfilling his mission, a traumatized Shang-Chi escapes to San Francisco, adopting the name "Shaun"."

I believe that this is inaccurate because when Katy asks Shang-Chi if he went through with it on the airplane he shakes his head saying he couldn't go through with it and couldn't face his father afterward so thats why he left. Jonvah (talk) 23:42, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The character later says he did go through with it. —El Millo (talk) 23:57, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

The film also being released on Canada on September 3
I'm a bit confused about why my edits were reverted. What exactly do you mean by "Primary release date only as it was released in many countries on that date"? It was released on the same day (September 3) in both Canada and the United States. So I don't get what is meant by "primary release date" only. If it was released in many countries on the same date, I don't see why you would only mention the United States, either. Clover moss (talk) 01:57, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * United States made the film, so the release date is mention worthy, "primary release date". So August 16 (world premiere) and September 3 are noted. — ChannelSpider (talk) 02:01, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * WP:FILMRELEASE notes that the release date should, which in this case is the US, which is what I meant by "primary release date only". IronManCap (talk) 02:03, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * But the date isn't different. I can understand why articles wouldn't include info about international releases on different dates in the lead, but I don't understand why you wouldn't mention the earliest dates it was released everywhere. And even if there's a reason not to include it in the lead, I don't understand why it wouldn't at least be included in the Theatrical release section, especially since there's already content there about the release in China and in Australia.  The wikilink you've provided is about adding that information to an infobox, and I didn't do that.  Clover moss  (talk) 02:11, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * It's still applied as a general rule. The date is the same, but what's relevant about that date is that it was released in the US, its country of production, not that it was released in Canada. Unless there's anything noteworthy about its release in Canada specifically, it shouldn't be included, as it has no more relevance than its release anywhere else in the world. —El Millo (talk) 02:37, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I guess I can understand why it's not in the lead now but what about this edit I made earlier that was in the theatrical release subsection? There's content there about Australia, but is that only because there was a different release date? Also, the only thing right now I can think of that could potentially be noteworthy about the release in Canada is that the film credits mentioned something about partly being filmed in British Columbia and that Simu Liu (the actor for Shang-Chi) is Canadian, but neither of those are directly related to the actual release of film.  Clover moss  (talk) 02:48, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Australia was likely included because COVID-related lockdowns delayed its release there, and Australia was heavily involved in the production of the film, the country is repeatedly mentioned in the Development and Filming sections. As you said here, there's nothing that makes its release date in Canada particularly noteworthy from every other release date in the world. —El Millo (talk) 03:00, 6 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Agreed that Canada's release isn't particularly noteworthy, and Australia's release is pretty noteworthy due to its COVID-related lockdown making it partially delayed to September 16. — ChannelSpider (talk) 03:03, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 September 2021
The article says, “ Shang-Chi, the Great Protector, Xialing, and Katy battle the Dweller-in-Darkness, which Shang-Chi ultimately kills” but Shang-Chi didn’t kill the Dweller. Katy did. 2600:1700:91A0:DD90:2944:2F68:6DBD:AFC4 (talk) 19:34, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅, changed to Katy. IronManCap (talk) 19:40, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Name of Awkwafina's character
The character that Awkwafina plays is identified only as "Katy" in the credits (and her mother is "Mrs. Chen"); she is nowhere in the film identified as (or suggested to be) "Katy Bashir," who is a very different character from Marvel's comics, and as far as I can tell doesn't seem to be in this movie. Flexiblecharm (talk) 14:01, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The character was identified with the surname Bashir in two separate interviews with Awkwafina. With MJ in the Spider-Man films, the surname Jones was also only in interviews and not the film itself, but is included on that page and at Zendaya. Ned was a similar situation with Leeds until it was spoken aloud in the sequel. 209.160.96.90 (talk) 14:54, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * No the name was not. No where has Awkwafina or anyone from the production said "Bashir" would be the last name. Some unreliable clickbait site noted that months ago and other site picked up on. Given Katy's mother is credited as "Mrs. Chen", that very quickly dispels this possibility. Unlike Zendaya's character in Spider-Man, if her nickname is "MJ", and she was known as "Michelle" in Homecoming, then obviously her last name starts with a "J" and the reliable sources saying it was "Jones" makes sense. — Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:17, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The new issue of Variety has her name as "Katy Bashir" too. There is not an online link yet, but when there is it should be added. 209.160.96.90 (talk) 22:19, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Again, I don't think this should be added given there's the biggest deterrent of this being the name with her mom's last name being "Chen". It's a lot harder to connect the dots to "Bashir" than it the Michelle/MJ situation was. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:06, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Treating "Chen" as a Chinese surname rather than a Western one, it's not outside the realm of possibility that her last name would be "Bashir" if the "Chen" came first or was ignored. Regardless, I'd wait to see the Variety issue before deciding further. If Variety did explicitly call her "Katy Bashir", I'd treat this in a similar vein to what we do with MJ, in listing her as "Katy" and adding a mention of her full name in prose. IronManCap (talk) 18:14, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * As I am admittedly uninformed on the matter, regardless if it was an Eastern or Western naming convention, having her mom be "Mrs. Chen", can't the assumption be made she is probably named "Katy Chen"? Where would "Bashir" factor into this? – Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:45, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * With the talk about her actual birth name being "Ruiwen" in the film, "Chen Ruiwen" becoming "Katy Bashir" seems like it could be the case, in how one changes your name to get a better career, for the in-universe explanation. It is best not to assume either way without a source, and the same reliable sources that said "Michelle Jones" (a name yet to factor into the Spider-Man films) are saying "Katy Bashir". 209.160.96.90 (talk) 23:15, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * 209.160.96.90's in-universe explanation of having two different names could certainly be plausible in terms of her mother's last name becoming her first Chinese name. I'd still like to see the context that the touted Variety piece uses the surname in though. If anyone has already seen it and could give some direct quotation, that would be helpful. IronManCap (talk) 00:00, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Just chiming in here: the article does not say that Katy's surname is Bashir, but does confirm that Katy is based on the Marvel Comics character Katy Bashir / Apex, which would explain why the name keeps popping up. We cannot confirm her surname for now, whether it is Bashir or Chen, but she is at least based on a Bashir.

Thanks for the helpful citations,. — ChannelSpider (talk) 07:31, 7 September 2021 (UTC) Thanks for this,. I think this is enough to glean that she is based on the comics Katy Bashir, but not enough to determine that her MCU surname is Bashir as the source doesn't strictly state that. IronManCap (talk) 10:56, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * "Consider this a left-field suggestion: Awkwafina’s character Katy in “Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings” is, in Marvel’s comic book continuity, a superhero in her own right. Well… maybe not a superhero, per se. Created for the Avengers Arena miniseries, Katy’s alter-ego, Apex, is a far more complicated character than her movie incarnation would suggest, and she’s not necessarily the good guy throughout the entire story, either. Just in case this ends up being foreshadowing for what’s to come in the MCU, think of this as a must-read… as well as a truly tragic story."
 * Dealmaces (talk) 06:19, 7 September 2021 (UTC)


 * , Agreed. I've hidden "Bashir" at the draft page until we form a consensus here. — ChannelSpider (talk) 04:09, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

So in my opinion, this Variety article is just speculation about Katy's character. It doesn't seem to have any actual information from Marvel sources and nothing in the film seems to indicate any connection to Katy Bashir. I feel that we should remove that reference completely. Natg 19 (talk) 05:35, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I see why you are confused: the “Consider this a left-field suggestion” part was not referring to speculation, it was referring to “Avengers Arena: The Complete Collection” being recommended to the reader of the article, which you would know from properly reading the article. Name-only adaptations happen all the time with Marvel, especially with this film: Wenwu is nothing like either Fu Manchu or the Mandarin, with the Mandarin and the Ten Rings having nothing at all to do with Shang-Chi in the comics, but they are still based on them. The only “speculation” is “maybe this comic featuring the character this is based on could be relevant to a future movie or show featuring them”, which is something comic book movie articles do all the time. Dealmaces (talk) 11:20, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * But do we have any official comments from Marvel or the production mentioning the connection to Katy Bashir? Yes, the Variety piece says "Awkwafina’s character Katy in Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings is, in Marvel’s comic book continuity, a superhero in her own right", but no one from Marvel has confirmed this connection that I have found. The Variety piece seems to me as a journalist's pick of possible comics that relate to Shang-Chi. Natg 19 (talk) 16:31, 8 September 2021 (UTC)


 * There have never been any official comments from Marvel or the production of any of the Spider-Man movies mentioning the connection to Michelle Jones. The Variety article is all we actually need. The article (and film) only came out five days ago as of writing, and we did not get the Leeds surname from Ned until the sequel despite knowing he was based on Ned Leeds, and even then "Lee" was genuinely considered instead too. Schrödinger's cat. Katy both does and doesn't have a surname. 209.160.96.90 (talk) 23:00, 8 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Also, the article is not "a pick of possible comics that relate to Shang-Chi", it is a list of comics being recommended about Shang-Chi and characters featured in the film, which includes Katy (they do not say Bashir, just Apex), with Variety making a slight (verified) profit off of purchases made through the website. 209.160.96.90 (talk) 23:45, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

An article from ScreenRant outright states Katy is completely original with no comic book counterpart. Mind you, ScreenRant has also been used as a reliable source for castings. Plus, I don't think Awkwafina or anyone else who worked on the movie outright confirmed the Katy Bashir source.Lipshiz (talk) 16:39, 8 September 2021 (UTC)


 * And neither Zendaya or anyone else who worked on any of the Spider-Man movies even partially confirmed the Michelle Jones source or surname, because they do not have to, and it still has not been used. Just like with Leeds for Ned. Variety is reliable enough on their own to be trusted. Like one of the most reliable sources, like The Hollywood Reporter. 209.160.96.90 (talk) 18:00, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm hiding the Variety ref for the time being due to 's concerns, which I agree with. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 23:06, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Schrödinger's cat. Katy both does and doesn't have a surname until someone says so, like with Liz in Homecoming and Ned until the sequel. 209.160.96.90 (talk) 23:32, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Just chiming in here again: the Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings trailer "Run It" from the Marvel Entertainment YouTube channel is tagged "Katy Bashir":. Dealmaces (talk) 18:15, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * That's WP:OR and doesn't confirm she's called that. —El Millo (talk) 18:28, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * That wording never appears in the video's title or description, so that just looks like YouTube working its algorithm to present what it feels is a relevant video to which ever person typed that name in. WP:OR as Facu said. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:29, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * That's not how the YouTube algorithm works. The video's code contains "Katy Bashir" as a tag. That's why it turns up, not WP:OR. Dealmaces (talk) 19:00, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * A quick look at the video's source code shows that the only tags are "marvel" and "comics". InfiniteNexus (talk) 19:48, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I just tried searching "Katy Bashir" on Youtube, and I do not see that video in the search results. Interestingly, I see a different video about Shang-Chi, but that could just be coincidence. Natg 19 (talk) 20:50, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Use YouTube Mobile. It is a different setup. Dealmaces (talk) 21:19, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Irregardless, that's still not a confirmation in any way regarding this. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:10, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

added in this source which states: The comics' version is entirely different, with the character known as Katy Bashir... The MCU removed the complicated characterization of Katy to essentially take the character’s name and nothing else. (bolding mine). I still think this is all EXTREMELY dubious, and even taking that Screen Rant source, they are saying this character is nothing like the comics character named Katy Bashir, only in that they both are named "Katy". I think once again, this info should be removed. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 01:53, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Agreed. If they only based the first name, a common first name, on that comics character, and nothing else, then what's the point of mentioning it? —El Millo (talk) 02:39, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm going to boldly remove this info now, not simply hide it as before. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:45, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Nothing like Liz Allan, and does not have the surname, but fills the same role, as with MJ does Mary Jane, at least for now. Dealmaces (talk) 11:11, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Is Katy Bashir even connected to Shang-Chi in the comics in any way? I am not a comics reader, but it is clear that Mary Jane and Liz Allan are central characters in the Spider-Man series, and thus the MCU has derivatives of these characters. I do not know if Katy Bashir is a major character in the comics to use this derivation. Natg 19 (talk) 16:52, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Katy Bashir redirects to Avengers Arena, where there's no mention of Shang-Chi. Checking fan wikis such as the Marvel Fandom Wiki, where a relevant connection would definitely be noted, Katy's article has no mention of Shang-Chi either. Shang-Chi's article at this fan wiki also has no mention of Katy Bashir or Apex. I'm not a comic book reader either, but it seems there's no connection between Katy Bashir and Shang-Chi that is comparable to Liz Allan or MJ with Peter Parker. —El Millo (talk) 17:12, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how Awkafina's character Katy was originally connected to Katy Bashir, but I wonder if someone just looked for a "Katy" in the comics and found Katy Bashir and decided to make the connection. Natg 19 (talk) 17:39, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I think it is more of including Marvel characters for the sake of including them, like Doctor Strange villain Dweller-in-Darkness being the main villain of Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings despite no connection to him in the comics. Or how Typhoid Mary was in Iron Fist season 2 despite the character never having even met Iron Fist in comics until after appearing in the show, and only then because she was in the show. I expect that Shang-Chi comics will feature Katy Bashir and the Dweller-of-Darkness in them soon similar to this. Dealmaces (talk) 22:15, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The difference between Katy Bashir and the two you named is that those characters were directly named as Typhoid Mary and Dweller-of-Darkness. "Katy" is just named "Katy", not Katy Bashir. Natg 19 (talk) 22:53, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * And Liz was named "Liz", not Liz Allan. Ned was named "Ned", not Ned Leeds (at least until the sequel). The reliable sources are saying she is based on Bashir, but as the section on this page for Shang-Chi does not mention that he is based on the Marvel Comics character Shang-Chi, I would recommend having it only included at her character page/section. Dealmaces (talk) 23:42, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * It was already explained why that's not a viable comparison. Both Ned and Liz are supporting characters to Spider-Man both in the films and the comics. Katy Bashir isn't a character related to Shang-Chi in the comics. —El Millo (talk) 23:47, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Which is where the Dweller-in-Darkness comes back into play. WP:VNT would apply in this situation. Removing the complicated backstory and adding her to the Shang-Chi mythos (and having Awkwafina play her), I do see how Katy was loosely based on Apex. Dealmaces (talk) 01:10, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * As I've said, and Facu and Natg have both echoed, in this specific instance, it seems extremely dubious regarding the connection. Frankly if my memory serves, I felt this "connection" came from the clickbait/unreliable sites like We Got This Covered way back when, and then it was one of those not really true rumors that just stuck around. And has been pointed out, both Variety (which is normally a reliable source) and Screen Rant (which can be iffy) are not fully conclusive in their statements about the character in the film, and the one in the comics. I think as Natg said, it really does seem in this instance if someone looked in comics for characters named "Katy" and found one that had a potential Asian background and put 2+2 together. Unlike the arguments for Liz and Ned, at least for Ned in Homecoming members of the production spoke about his character and how it was Ned Leeds, but a mixture of Leeds and Ganke, while Liz is also not a strong stretch to her being Liz Allen, and I could again have sworn production members claimed such despite not being named in the film, which we don't have in this instance. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 01:55, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I see the dubiousness, but to say she is not based on Katy Bashir would be WP:OR, while to say her surname is Bashir at this time would also be WP:OR. What matters is WP:VNT, and Variety and Screen Rant are conclusive in saying Katy is based on Bashir, with no ambiguity or “What If...?-s”. Avengers Arena is only considered “a left-field suggestion” in that article because it does not feature Shang-Chi, but does feature a character from the Shang-Chi film. Dealmaces (talk) 12:26, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * How is not stating something which myself and multiple other editors have questioned its accuracy WP:OR? WP:VNT exists, yes, but that doesn't mean if there is consensus to not include something for the very fact its truthfulness is in question that we then should because of VNT. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:35, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Kingsley in the billing list
Per the on-end credits of the film, I've added in Kingsley. This seems exactly like the same situation as Anthony Mackie in Ant-Man and Gwyneth Paltrow in Homecoming both being excluded from the marketing/poster billings in order to keep their roles a surprise. And since Kingsley is in so much of this movie than I think a lot of audience thought (myself included), his placement is justified in my opinion. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:17, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Didn't Yuen Wah also receive solo billing in the on-end title sequence despite not being on the poster? Or did I just imagine that? --ThylekShran (talk) 06:24, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Slight clarification in plot re: fighting the Dweller's minions
After having just watched the movie, I'd say that the line that says, "and the villagers join forces with the Ten Rings to fight them [the Dweller's minions]" (Plot Paragraph 5, Line 2), should be edited to say "and the Ten Rings join forces with the villagers to fight them." A very slight and minor change, but I think it's slightly significant in that in the movie, it is Xialing (the sister) who invites and convinces Razor Fist of the Ten Rings (a sort of second-in-command while Xu Wenwu, the leader of the Ten Rings) to team up and fight the minions together as only their combined forces and the villagers' dragon-scale-based weapons are able to counter the ensuing army of minions. In fact, at first, Razor Fist believes this temporary truce initiated by Xialing to be a ruse to get the Ten Rings to let down their guard, but after the first minion that flies into their midst cannot be hurt by the Ten Rings' weapons but can be killed by the villagers' weapons, Razor Fist immediately changes his tune and agrees to fighting together. KenshStarrJr (talk) 03:15, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅. Seems reasonable and small enough not to be challenged by anyone. —El Millo (talk) 03:19, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

What is the correct budget for the movie ?
It's been months now but all I see is the same result for the budget which is 150 million to 200 million. There should be a accurate budget number by now, or at least a much closer accurate budget number. How would they not able to give a accurate calculation. If the difference is between a few million I can understand but this is 50 millions in between 150-200m. It's a huge lot of differences in those numbers. By now, they should know on how much they had spend on the budget. Vamlos (talk) 13:58, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

IMAX and 3D
Can we add the fact that this film is IMAX and 3D? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.27.106.254 (talk) 15:36, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 October 2021
X=Categories as they are. Y=Categories with "Category:American 3D films", "Category:2021 3D films" and "Category:IMAX films" 82.27.106.254 (talk) 20:22, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅. — ChannelSpider (talk) 20:31, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

WP:RECEPTION
I recently reviewed WandaVision and its episodes when they were nominated for GA. I noted that most of these articles had a problem with following WP:RECEPTION, guidelines on how critical reviews should be listed. This article has the same issue. The second paragraph in #Critical_response has two reviews and the third paragraph has three. Those are a mere five reviews listed to summarize the critical response to Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings. However, you can easily see in the first paragraph that there are over 300 reviews on Rotten Tomatoes and 50 reviews on Metacritic. Adding more reviews and sorting paragraphs by topic can make this article better. It can also help speed up the GA-process when it is inevitably nominated, possibly by the end of this year. Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 14:12, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Mythological creatures
Other mythological creatures in the film included the nine-tailed fox, qilin and shishi.

I added the above to the article and was reverted on that. More coverage:. I still think they deserve a sentence in the article. Opinions, editors? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:34, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Reverting editor here. I for one am not sure if it's notable, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't belong on the Visual effects section if there's no coverage on how they were made. The only one with info on their creation and incorporation to the film is Morris, which is already included in the article. —El Millo (talk) 19:35, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Articles are notable, content is WP:DUE/in WP:PROPORTION. IMO, the coverage makes it mentionable. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:52, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Where in the article does it belong? Because there's no coverage on the visual effects of these creatures, just that they appear. —El Millo (talk) 20:04, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * It doesn't need to be under visual effects, it just made sense to me to put it there. Filming or postproduction, I don't know where we consider them to have come into existence. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:44, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * That information can already be found at Ta Lo (Marvel Cinematic Universe). I don't think it needs to be mentioned here unless we have more info on the visual effects process. (The only info we have right now is that Trixter made them.) InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:05, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Box office.
Can we split the overly long "domestic box office" paragraph into two? My suggestion is moving the "In its second weekend…" to a new paragraph so it's easier to comprehend; it would also be more appropriate as the first paragraph would be about the film's opening weekend performance and the second would be about post-opening weekend performance. Blowscalls (talk) 19:19, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

I'd like to note that this method been utilized in several other MCU film articles such as Black Panther and Black Widow. There's no need to cluster everything into a single body. Blowscalls (talk) 19:29, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
 * There isn't enough information currently to warrant two paragraphs on the domestic box office. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 23:01, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Break even
Can we edit on the break even of Shang-Chi ? According to https://screenrant.com/shang-chi-cost-box-office-success-how-much/ The budget of Shang Chi is $150 million, this would mean Shang-Chi would need to at least hit $300 million worldwide (twice the number of budget) to break even. Currently Shang-Chi made $423.9 million worldwide, meaning is a box office success.Vamlos (talk) 14:07, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * That would be WP:OR, we need a source that states the film has broken even, because not even the budget is agreed upon by sources to be $150 million. —El Millo (talk) 17:10, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

How Banner was not Smart Hulk
As mentioned here. See what you can add. Kailash29792 (talk)  14:10, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
 * That's more appropriate for the character article than here. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:52, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

PVOD revenue/purchases and Disney+ streaming info
This info should be contained to the "Home media" section (which can be renamed), because it is specific to that release. We should not add this to "Reception" because, that info is generally for the film's initial release format, which would be the theatrical release (so Box office and Critical response in regards to that release). - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:31, 25 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Streaming is not home media. And I don't see what you claim about Reception being there in any policy or manual of style. AbsolutelyFiring (talk) 17:35, 25 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Also why can't you avoid reverting after making a bold edit? You know as well no one except you had the problem with streaming viewership being in "Reception" section. You're changing status quo and freely reverting while calling on others to discuss. AbsolutelyFiring (talk) 17:39, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * MOS:FILM: If available, provide information on the film's release on home media, such as release dates, revenues, and other appropriate third-party coverage. A film's "streaming" release in this day and age is considered part of its "Home media" (which again, we can tweak the title as needed). Putting this info in "reception" is misleading, indicating that this was obtained upon initial release, of which it isn't. Hence, "Home media" per the MOS and what I've also discussed is the correct location for such information pertaining to its post-theatrical releases. Just because no one else edited doesn't mean they did not have an issue. I was reverted the placement here to conform with standard MOS/other MCU article practices. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:43, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The thing is it's not about revenue. Also streaming doesn't count as home media. See home video. Also if you have no proof you cannot claim someone had an issue. That said you still changed status quo. AbsolutelyFiring (talk) 17:52, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * And even Black Widow has a separate streaming section. AbsolutelyFiring (talk) 17:59, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * You claim no one had an issue. There's no need for Favre to refute your claim, it's you who must provide evidence for your claim. Plus, your edit was like three hours ago, that's nowhere near enough time to conclude that no one had trouble with it. Home video has a subsection that talks about the transition from disk-based viewing to a streaming culture, and it also has a section on the Time gap between theatrical and home video release, bot of which show that streaming after the theatrical release window has ended counts as home media. —El Millo (talk) 18:01, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The Black Widow case isn't analogous to this one, as Black Widow streaming release was the same day as its theatrical release. Shang-Chi would be analogous to something like A Quiet Place Part II, which had its theatrical window shortened, and which has a Streaming service subsection under Release that explains the whole situation around and then an independent section Home media that states when it came out on Blu-ray, DVD, and on Paramount+. Now, having two separate sections like that doesn't seem practical, but note neither of them is within the Reception section. —El Millo (talk) 18:05, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I was just about to explain the Black Widow case so thanks Facu. And as I've continually said in this discussion, if you have issue with "Home media" (though this is the common term on Wikipedia for post-theatrical releases and includes a film's wide "free" streaming service release), we can change the wording. It doesn't change the fact that a film going to Disney+/Netflix/HBO Max whatever without additional monetary costs, is considered a "home media" release. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:08, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Again nothing you cited in MOS:FILM claims only initial release performances can be added. And it isn't my burden to prove a status quo when no one else reverted. Because I'm not claiming something that doesn't exist. That's not how BRD works anyway. Also streaming is not classified as home media in the article. It talks about its affects on movies and home media. Home video is prerecorded video sold or rented. Streaming is not that as you very well know. And try reading this article too where streaming and home media are clearly differentiated. AbsolutelyFiring (talk) 18:19, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Regardless I've found some sources classifying streaming as home media. I'll revert then. AbsolutelyFiring (talk) 18:22, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * But anyway Black Widow's streaming viewership should be added to home media section too. MOS:FILM doesn't discriminate between initial release or later one. AbsolutelyFiring (talk) 18:24, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * No, Black Widow shouldn't be adjusted, because as pointed out to you twice, it was released in theaters and streaming during its initial run (which was not the case here), so it makes sense to highlight its box office as well as streaming information in the Reception section there. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:51, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

WP:CONFORMTITLE and the MCU
I recently learned about MOS:CONFORMTITLE, a citation guideline on how to list the title of a work. It reads, "Titles of works that should be italicized receive this treatment inside another title. E.g., convert a newspaper title like "Ben Daniels Joins Cast of 'The Crown' for Season Three" to "Ben Daniels Joins Cast of The Crown for Season Three". This includes in a citation template as well as in running text." This means that citations including titles such as 'Shang-Chi' should be italicized (Shangi-Chi). Should this guideline be practiced in this article and other MCU articles? Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 15:57, 2 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Yes, you can. That would be a great help with your assistance. Centcom08 (talk) 01:47, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
 * This discussion should be brought up at WP:MCU, the MCU task force, not relegated to one of the film's talk pages. Considering this will affect many of the articles, it should be discussed there. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:19, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Film being banned in China
It would be a good idea to add a section to the original article, maybe under reception, indicating that the film has been banned in China. https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/china-bans-crypto-marvel-film-shang-chi-effeminate-men-what-ncna1279772

Xi Jinping, the leader of China declared that all cultural material reflect the values of the Chinese Communist Party. Shang-Chi apparently does not meet this criteria. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Escribano2000 (talk • contribs) 17:07, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
 * That’s definitely not Reception, that would be under Release, and it probably already is.--CreecregofLife (talk) 20:43, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Info regarding any China release is currently in the Release section. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 23:34, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

and in this section a little about why this movie is banned in china where this site would be included.Cocomiller (talk) 19:36, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

The spoken language of the film
The film that I've watched was voiced in both English and Mandarin (with English subtitles). I don't know what's the valid reason to saying that the film was in English only as the edit mentioned before was reverted. Shinjiman &#8660; &#9832; 02:48, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Per Infobox film, only the primary language used in the film (i.e. English) is listed. You can compare this to Black Panther, which features many lines of dialogue in Xhosa. InfiniteNexus (talk) 02:54, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Nearly half of the time (which includes the first ten minutes of the movie) the characters are speaking Chinese. I think Chinese is one of the primary languages. -Hijk910 (talk) 16:45, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * It's the primary language, not several. English is the primary release language as such. IronManCap (talk) 16:50, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Per Infobox film, it also mentions "only in rare cases of clearly bilingual or multilingual films". I think this movie is one of those rare cases as it clearly is a bilingual movie. -Hijk910 (talk) 16:52, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * this is not a bilingual movie. Per the template's documentation, it says to refer to classification sites for what they say the language of the film is. The BBFC says it is just English. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:59, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't see any compulsory rules of reference to "classification sites" in the documentation. -Hijk910 (talk) 17:04, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Databases often give every language spoken within the film, even if they only reflect a few lines in the overall script. The BBFC website is a good resource for the main language used in the film. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:07, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I think "good" does not mean "only", and the amount of Chinese dialogues is far from "a few lines". -Hijk910 (talk) 17:15, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , I think this case proves that BBFC is not a "good source for main language". The film is bilingual and there're many RSs out there talking about this:, , , . We shouldn't blindly follow BBFC. Put Mandarin Chinese in the infobox. Neo-corelight (Talk) 23:09, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
 * For example, it's absolutely ridiculous that BBFC lists Inglourious Basterds's language as only English. Shows that we should drop the practice. Neo-corelight (Talk) 23:35, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Please stop edit warring and changing the article against the WP:STATUSQUO while the discussion is ongoing. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:07, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * You first added the hidden note and I then tried to correct it. -Hijk910 (talk) 17:09, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * And I am glad you agree there should not be a hidden note in the first place. Good night. -Hijk910 (talk) 17:14, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * It's not about whether I agree or not (although I think a note would be helpful to reflect any consensus). It's about maintaining the WP:STATUSQUO whilst the matter is discussed. IronManCap (talk) 17:17, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * That's the STATUSQUO, without the note yes, but the note I added also reflected current consensus to not include (as that is what it is until a discussion changes it). And I don't see that changing, because Chinese should not be listed in the infobox per the template documentation and the BBFC classification. The note should go back to prevent other editors from continually adding that in. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:19, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, the film speaks English and Chinese. But English is mostly the language spoken and is the primary language, per Black Panther. Per the template documentation and the BBFC. — ChannelSpider (talk) 19:18, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

I did some research with Google. While English is stated as the primary language, it is noted that a significant portion of dialogues are in Chinese. I feel like there is not enough descriptions on this in the article. Please advise where/how to put the info into the article. Thanks. -Hijk910 (talk) 06:19, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Why not put an EFN box like in both Borat film articles, which have multiple languages spoken.2600:1700:551:EED0:E97D:A469:F97A:B17D (talk) 01:46, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 * The template documentation of the Infobox film says to include, which is English. The documentation also recommends checking BBFC for which the main language is, which according to this film's entry there, is English as well. —El Millo (talk) 23:02, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
 * , is template documentation the same as a guideline? BBFC is just one "recommended" site, not a requirement. Mandarin is a major part of the film, one of two main languages in the film, as noted by RSs I put above. I think this is a great case of WP:STONEWALLING. Neo-corelight (Talk) 23:31, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
 * And, you're just repeating an argument already put. Neo-corelight (Talk) 23:33, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
 * If you think this is one of those, that's fine. According to one of the sources cited in this discussion, I don't know if that qualifies as being bilingual, but it may. If there was an RfC or something like that, I think I might support it, but we need to build consensus for it, because at least technically it shouldn't be added, as it isn't the main language and it's spoken significantly less than English. —El Millo (talk) 23:55, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
 * While Shang-Chi‘s primary language is English... with subtitles using English to translate Mandarin, that explains our reasoning of only including English as the primary language in the infobox. Unless we can deep dive into the meaning of "primary language". Centcom08 (talk) 03:10, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Ok, here are my two cents. I once the saw the 2007 Mexican-American film Under the Same Moon (La misma luna). It’s about a Mexican boy who journey across the border into the United States to find his immigrant mom after his grandma dies. It’s very heartwarming.

Many of the scenes in the film take place in Mexico, and involve characters communicating in Spanish. They have English subtitles, but viewers who understand both English and Spanish, like me, can watch the scenes spoken in Spanish without having to rely on subtitles, so for me, it’s clearly a bilingual film.

It is therefore completely ridiculous to say Mandarin Chinese is not a primary language of Shang Chi because the scenes in Chinese have English subtitles.

Just like with Under the Same Moon, someone who’s bililugual in English and Chinese can watch the scenes spoken in Chinese while ignoring the subtitles. So for them, for all intensive perposes, it is a bilingual film.

Also, the scenes spoken in Chinese largely take place in China, where Chinese is the official language, just like Spanish is the official language of Mexico.

Finally, there’s also the fact that many actors in Shang Chi do not utter a word of English, including Fala Chen, who plays Li, Shang Chi’s mom, and a major character. This despite the fact that she speaks English in real life.

You should not use some dumb equation such as what % of the film is in Chinese to determine it’s status as a primary language of the film. Instead, look at it from a humanistic perspective.

Linguistically, this is a film many people of Chinese decent will experience in two languages. And if they only know Mandarin, then they will not experience it in English at all. They will need Chinese subtitles for the scenes spoken in English. Yet that does not negate English’s status as a primary language of the film. The same is true of Chinese.

Here is my message for whoever decodes what counts as a primary language on Wikipedia:

I know ya’ll pride yourselves on neutrality, but to take the neutral stance and continue to exclude Chinese as a major language of Shang Chi is a racist, U.S.-centric microaggression. It devalues the Chinese language, and the people who speak it, both in China and around the world.

Also, this isn’t like Black Widow, where they say maybe a word or two in Russian and that’s it. They have entire conversations in Chinese in Shang Chi.

Finally, to say this film is only in English but that foreign indie films are not is also a microaggression because it others films made outside the United States, and put American-made, big budget Hollywood films like this on a pedestal. Ascarboro97 (talk) 05:00, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Firstly, the film you cite (La misma luna) is a Mexican-American co-production, so you already have a major difference with the solely American production that is Shang-Chi. Secondly, try to exercise assuming good faith, avoid personal attacks and don't accuse other editors of being racist because they don't consider Chinese to be a primary language, when some reliable sources cited don't consider it a primary language either. It might be ultimately right that Chinese should be considered a primary language along with English, but your argument is flawed. Please, also consider being as concise as possible in future discussions. —El Millo (talk) 05:27, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

The articles for the 2 Borat film have an EFN notices that says the primary language is English but other languages are spoken throughout the film. Should we apply that here?2600:100C:A203:4349:41FF:B115:BF75:6586 (talk) 23:51, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Chinese names for the characters
Would it be ok to add the Chinese and Mandarin character names to this article? I'm not sure if this is common practice, but it would be educational as the main character's name isn't written in standard Mandarin pinyin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pineapplesuitcase (talk • contribs) 14:04, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
 * If you can cite reliable sources and avoid synthesis of published material, then yes. DonQuixote (talk) 14:11, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Much better to add them in each of the character's respective Wikipedia articles as long as you have reliable sources. Centcom08 (talk) 16:34, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Would the Chinese wiki page be considered a reliable source? I was just planning on using it. I could use any sources they list.Pineapplesuitcase (talk) 20:18, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Chinese/Mandarin character names shouldn't be included here. This info is better for character articles, should those exist. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:48, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
 * OK, good idea, I think it would be suitable to add to the section "Shang-Chi, also known as the Master of Kung Fu..." of the character page — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pineapplesuitcase (talk • contribs) 22:57, 28 January, 2022 (UTC)
 * Both the comics and the MCU character articles have the Chinese name embedded in a note (albeit unsourced), so I'm not sure what you're proposing to add or change. InfiniteNexus (talk) 03:45, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
 * OK, I see it now, it's just quite small there.Pineapplesuitcase (talk) 04:49, 29 January 2022 (UTC)