Talk:Shanidar Cave

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2019 and 6 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Skylorritchie, Sydwattz, Cmunroe7, Pes1334, Sydhelen14.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 09:09, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Age
There is one point of speculation on the page that I would like to address. The age of the Shanidar 1 skeleton is said to represent a person of 80 years in modern equivilant. I have read suggestions of much greater age, more like 100 plus years.

Where have you read this? Chrisrus (talk) 17:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Alcohol?
Where does the reference to sassafras alcohol come from? Tsarevna (talk) 11:29, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Paleopathology
Further discussion of paleopathology is needed. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 03:18, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Medicinal plants
''It is unlikely that Neanderthals collected medicinal plants. But it is even less likely that jirds do.''
 * Moved to talk. Viriditas (talk) 02:44, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Both jirds and neanderthals can be expected to collect all sorts of plants. Lots of plants are medicinal.  Some of the plants both species collect will probably turn out to be useful as medicine.  It seems to me, therefore, that just because some of the collected plants turned out to be medicinal does not qualify one to say "they collected medicinal plants" because saying so implies that we know why they collected them - for medicine, when they could have been collected for some other reason: food, building material, or some other reason, such as, in the case of neanderthals, maybe they just liked the smell, or to decorate the place.  It seems sometimes that every other plant has some claim to being medicinal.  Chrisrus (talk) 17:28, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Why did you move this? The jird argument is a very weak one. If you know the original literature on this issue (by Solecki and in particular by Leroi-Gourhan) you will find a) no evidence of jirds, b) clear strong evidence of human action. The jird argument was developed by a student who has never been to the site; when I asked him directly why jirds were collecting medicinal plants, he had no answer (in any case, he didn't reply). My resolution to that issue (see above) seems to me plausible, modest, and realistic. There have been other attempts to challenge Solecki's interpretation of the cave, and none have achieved any consensus in paleontology. Dmoerman (talk) 11:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

You say "no evidence of jirds" was found in the area. Yet the article says "several burrows of a gerbil-like rodent known as the Persian Jird were found nearby." Can you cite this? Chrisrus (talk) 17:14, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Shanidar 1 and Creb
Hello, I discovered that the death of Creb and the Shanidar 2 body is a total mismatch, I have read the book very extensively and I find Creb to be more like the Shanidar one body. I know that trivia is being discouraged here on wiki but I think it is important to tell where exactly Jean M. Auel gets her stuff from.

Gsmgm (talk) 18:09, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

And I know that Creb died from falling rocks but there where no rituals present. He is clearly based on Shanidar one.

Gsmgm (talk) 18:13, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Scrubb it all, I didn't read the article enough, my 500 word per minute reading speed somtimes leave my brain in the dust.

Gsmgm (talk) 18:16, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Redirect
Hi I have renamed this page to Shanidar Cave instaed of just Shanidar

Redirect
Hi I have renamed this page to Shanidar Cave instaed of just Shanidar User talk:Matt037291 01:49, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Location of the Cave
Northern Iraq is a big region and not all of the north is Iraqi Kurdistan, this cave however is in Erbil governance which is found in Iraqi Kurdistan.

Iraqi Kurdistan is recognised by the Iraqi constitution: (http://www.uniraq.org/documents/iraqi_constitution.pdf) The Erbil governance is clearly recognised as part of Iraqi Kurdistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Kurdistan)(http://www.unpo.org/article/536)

Therefore, it's accurate to state that it's found with in Iraqi kurdistan, and using pre-2005 articles are not valid becuase the Kurdistan region was officially recognised by Baghdad in 2005. Also you can see that new sources from 2010 state that it's in "at a site known as the Shanidar cave, in the Kurdistan" (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/The-Skeletons-of-Shanidar-Cave.html)


 * You agree above that Erbil Governorate is part of Iraqi Kurdistan. Then why do you remove it? Since Erbil Governorate is smaller than Iraqi Kurdistan, yet part of it, it is a more precise indication of where Shanidar lies than just Iraqi Kurdistan, which you keep inserting. Saying it is in Erbil Governorate is simply correct and more precise than Iraqi Kurdistan, and it does not deny that the cave is in Iraqi Kurdistan. Furthermore, these are the only Neandertals in all of Iraq, not only in all of Iraqi Kurdistan. Please explain why you keep changing that.Zoeperkoe (talk) 16:55, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

You obviously have a problem with adding Kurdistan to it, and your argument don't make sense. Fine I will leave the erbil part in, however I will change the 'north Iraq' to Iraqi kurdistan becuase that's the official name of the region the cave is located in! again your argument of the cave being the only cave in Iraq is invalid, becuase I use 'IRAQI Kurdistan' which states and suggests that the cave is both in Iraq and Kurdistan, which is true and correct.

If you have problems with the word Kurdistan, that's not my fault.. as a citizen of Kurdistan I have the right to give the full facts about my region, and since this cave is found in my region I will state it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kurdwiki (talk • contribs) 17:46, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Shanidar 3
The arcicle cited about the death of the Shanidar 3 man doesn´t say or suggest that he was possibly killed by a homo sapiens. There is absolutely no archaeological evidence for that, so in my opinion its kind of populist to say his death has sth to do with that. Although homo sapiens and homo neanderthalensis lived side by side and produced similar tools, this sentence takes away a realistic, scientific background of this case because we can just speculate about that.

Atropa Morchella (talk) 16:28, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Missing information on subjects 5-10
Can someone please add any info on subjects 5-10. I see subjects 1-4 have extensive info, but after the introduction in the beginning article, there is no further mention. Thanks.
 * Yes, please add the info or state why it is missing.CountMacula (talk) 16:31, 25 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Note: "distributed throughout Iraq" as in-given to museums, personal collectors, reburied.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.128.109.241 (talk) 23:34, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

2015 discovery:
Not much to go on. More will likely be known once more is published.

http://rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/150420152

--Harizotoh9 (talk) 18:48, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Reinsertion of the word Kurdistan
An edit was made in this page on 24 April 2016, saying "Removed references to Iraqi Kurdistan; it is not a country. Iraq is a country". The editor went as far as chaning the name of the article, given as a source in footnote 5, from "Shanidar 10: A Middle Paleolithic immature distal lower limb from Shanidar Cave, Iraqi Kurdistan" to "Shanidar 10: A Middle Paleolithic immature distal lower limb from Shanidar Cave, Iraq", whereas the actual title of the article, as can be gathered from the link, is indeed : "Shanidar 10: A Middle Paleolithic immature distal lower limb from Shanidar Cave, Iraqi Kurdistan". As Iraqi Kurdistan is recognized as an official autonomous region of Iraq by the Iraqi constitution and international bodies, the location of the cave in this region should be included in the article, which I have edited to this effect. Thanks. Simko Destan (talk) 14:28, 17 March 2017 (UTC)