Talk:Shaun Murphy/Archive 1

Personal life
This section is badly in need of citations. There are numerous poorly constructed and unsubstantiated claims made. AC+79 3888 [ talk ] 19:29, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I've just taken the para out, as per WP:LIVING Ged UK (talk) 19:38, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Good move. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93; ‹(-¿-)›

Irish
Does he have Irish descent? I always thought he was Irish and was shocked to find out he was English when looking on Wikipedia. Spiderone (talk) 12:34, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

'Rotter' claim
My Grandad says that Shaun is "a bit of a rotter". I agree with him, to be honest - I saw that git Murphy pulling out of the 147 club in Ecclesfield in his big shiny E-Class Merc, and he had a decidedly smug expression on his face. Unfortunately, I can find no online sources to back up my Grandad's claim, but I think there should be some mention of it in the article anyway. I realise that there are rules against this, but rules are made to be broken, IMHO. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.68.11.67 (talk) 19:22, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Also as Murphy won the least liked snooker player award on the Snooker forum site some recognition should be given to the fact that he is unpopular with the public.

If you have a proper reference then do it, otherwise it will be reverted. Armbrust (talk) 15:11, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Nationality
Please, put a link where he says he identifies himself as English. Without a link, he's (legally) a British. See Carol Ann Duffy's talk page. There is an example of this issue. --Maru-Spanish (talk) 02:14, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Snooker's governing body regards England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as four different nationalities for the purposes of players' nationalities. The snooker articles on Wikipedia reflect this. If you think it should be done differently then you should take it up at WikiProject Snooker.  Making the changes to just one article puts it at odds with all the other snooker player articles. Betty Logan (talk) 09:08, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

All the snooker player articles have their nationality marked by a flag icon. By removing the icon the articles are inconsistent. If you disagree with the use of icons then please take the issue to WikiProject Snooker since it affects all player articles. Betty Logan (talk) 20:38, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There is a wiki policy that states just because one article does things one way doesnt mean it is correct. In this case, just because the Snooke dudes decide to split British players between the member countries of the UK does not mean they have the last say on the legal status of a person - the UK government does.--86.17.0.3 (talk) 14:59, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There is a wiki policy which says all editing is done by consensus. That means you have to have the agreement of the other editors to make changes to the articles.  If you had gone over to the Wiki Project then we could have discussed the matter and got everyone's opinion and come up with a solution.  As it is you you wasted a lot of your own time making edits that have been reverted.  Betty Logan (talk) 16:03, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * One, Maru-Spanish if you actually read the Carol Ann Duffy page you would realise that it identifies her as Scottish, not British. For Murphy I think it is a definite "English". Major news sources call him English, and the rest of the Snooker articles have nationality as Scottish, English, Irish, Welsh, so I think for consistency it should be on English. And although 86.. is correct, as just because a lot of people do it it doesn't mean it is correct, but in this case it is correct and as Betty says, Wikipedia is based on consensuses, and the consensus here is for it to be more specific than British. I think especially in Snooker as it is a British dominated sport. Alan 16  talk  00:26, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

You people and your Nationalitys are confusing. I have a lot to learn about UK... Helmont (talk) 21:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

B.C. identification (affiliation)?
I noticed Murphy is in the category of "Converts to Christianity". The article only mentions that Murphy is a devout Christian, prays before every match, met his wife in a Christian chatroom, and so forth. My question is: what was he converted from; i.e. "what was he" before he became a Christian? (my suspicions are that he was already nominally Christian but was "born again" into a more radical sect; if so, then he should be removed from this category). Shanoman (talk) 23:16, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I think I've heard (or read) him mention that he was raised Catholic (which obviously fits with his name), so he's not technically a convert to Christianity. A convert to C of E or whatever, but I'm not sure we have a category for that.--MartinUK (talk) 23:23, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

"POV"
It is untrue (though widely believed for some stupid reason) that words like "poor" are inherently and automatically POV. This just means we get to the ridiculous situation of writing sentences like "In a start to the season that was described as 'poor' by The Times and the BBC; 'bad' by The Guardian; 'terrible' by The Telegraph; 'difficult' by The Sun, the player lost..." The above is then factual and verifiable but looks ridiculous. Sentences like the above sadly appear in Wikipedia due to people seeing "POV words" and automatically and fanatically removing them without thought. This makes the writing mechanical and dull and restricts what can be said. Also, "form" is a word often used to describe results (see Form (horse racing)). If a player has good form, this means his results are "good" in terms of winning races and placing highly in terms of competitions (in a statistical sence), rather than the subjective definition of good. Christopher Connor (talk) 20:24, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Conventions
For the performance table, I propose to add links to each individual tournament for that year. Also, for tournament wins, I propose the world championship is called "World Snooker Championship" since that is the official name of the tournament. There's also the point of the language around scorelines and matches - whether to say lost "10-5" or lost "5-10" (and even lost "to" or lost "against"). I propose that we use the always winner's score first, since the word lost or won makes it evident what the player scored. Please discuss this if you disagree. Christopher Connor (talk) 11:42, 2 July 2010 (UTC)


 * There's no need to name it "World Snooker Championship" as Murphy hasn't participated in any other world championship. And see: WT:SNOOKER. Armbrust  Talk  Contribs  11:47, 2 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Agree with the scoreline notation in that case. Would still prefer "World Snooker Championship" as that is the official name and we are listing tournament victories (even though there's no confusion over what sort of World Championship). In general article, it can be simply "World Championship". Note that the full name appears in other articles and in "Premier League Snooker" though the same reasoning applies there. Christopher Connor (talk) 11:58, 2 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The last point - the scoring issue - I've seen done both ways. Saying he lost 10-5 or 5-10 is essentially the same thing, but sometimes the phrasing might dictate that reverse scores are necessary, for instance the article could say "his results against Maguire last season were 5-4, 6-9 and 5-3" (just an example) so the latter point depends on context really. I don't quite follow what you are suggesting for the wikitable - do you mean wikilink every result in the table? Betty Logan (talk) 11:59, 2 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, link's to every ranking tournament he played in. This appears widely in tennis articles and can see no reason to not do it here. (Also helpful for writing the article without having to type in full name.) Christopher Connor (talk) 12:01, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
 * But then it should be made on every article with performance timeline and also for non-ranking events. (Paul Hunter, Ronnie O'Sullivan, Stephen Maguire, Ding Junhui and Neil Robertson) Armbrust  Talk  Contribs  12:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)


 * With regards to the naming, it appears in other articles in career finals section, such as John Higgins (snooker player), Stephen Hendry, Ronnie O'Sullivan, Mark Williams (Welsh snooker player). However, when not done in a fancy table, it's just "World Championship". Football nations also list "FIFA World Cup" in tournament wins section when no doubt there. For linking tournaments, we just have to do the same for all other snooker player articles. Christopher Connor (talk) 12:12, 2 July 2010 (UTC)