Talk:Shaw (Washington, D.C.)

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Inner-City as POV
Dablaze - I would call any old residential neighborhoods that immediately surround a downtown area "inner-city." So I would call all of the DC neighborhoods inside and straddling Florida Avenue and up and down the 7th Street / Georgia Avenue / 16th Street corridors (including Columbia Heights, Park View, Eckington, Mount Pleasant, Lanier Heights, Kalorama, Logan, Dupont, Adams-Morgan, Capitol Hill, Trinidad, etc.) "inner-city." Petworth and Woodley and Lincoln Park--you're getting into the original "suburbs"--would be borderline. Georgetown, because it has always had its own "town" identity and history, would be an exception. I would never call Crestwood, Brightwood, Brookland, Brentwood, Tenleytown, or Woodridge "inner-city." There is an element of subjectivity in the label, I admit, but I consider it more an indication of how the history and growth of a neighborhood fits into the history and growth of a city.

--Browncat 01:22, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Well, my concern here was not the geographical subjectivity of "inner-city," but rather the socioeconomic connotation -- i.e. "poor black people living in the ghetto." That's what "inner-city" means to a lot of people, and it's still a euphemism for "black," much like "urban" is.


 * So that's really what I was worried about, that the term was somehow being used to classify the neighborhood in a backhanded way. But judging from your post, you didn't have that intention. But unless I'm getting too old (I'm only 31 dammit!), "inner-city" is still a loaded term, so that's why I thought its original use here displayed POV, however unintentionally. --Dablaze 08:51, Nov 26, 2004 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I was attempting to use the term in a strictly geographical sense (or in a strictly historical sense, I suppose, to refer to layers of urban growth) because I find it unfortunate that so many Americans automatically affix images of crime and poverty to any terms that are descriptive of old city neighborhoods. I don't want to give any legitimacy to this language, because I think it encourages a certain way of thinking about urban / suburban / exurban economic and racial segregation.


 * But I also agree that most Americans would consider inner-city to be a pejorative term. Most would see it in this article and think: Shaw, crime, poverty, ghetto. And that wasn't my intention at all. So your point is well-taken.


 * --Browncat 01:39, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

History all wrong
I'm not sure where to begin but Shaw is not on the outskirts of the Old Federal City, it is inside of it. On the edge but inside. Also it was named after "Shameful Shaw" the Junior High School, not the man for whom the school was named. The reason why I haven't corrected this is I'm still trying to pinpoint the date when it went from being called the 2nd District to the Shaw Jr High Renewal Area and then just Shaw. It was sometime in the late 50s or mid 60s. And I have to figure out how on earth you cite sources on this thing. Because my corrections would look just as invented as that which is already written. Slave encampments? Where? Portions were nothing but farmland in 1880. And it also insinuates that it was a predominatly AfAm area. It was racially mixed. Inshaw 16:49, 16 August 2007 (UTC)InShaw (aka Mari)


 * I think you're reading more into this article than is actually on the page. First of all, "outskirts" doesn't necessarily mean "outside." It means "the outlying district of a city or metropolitan area." However you define Shaw--and the definitions vary considerably--it was always either straddling Boundary Avenue or just inside it, and at the time of the Civil War, it was mostly rural. After the April 16, 1862 emancipation (and because of the heavy Union troop presence), DC became an obvious haven for freed slaves. They settled mostly in impromptu shantytowns along the canal (south of Penn Ave), but they also settled in established "contraband" areas on the outskirts of the city (near Boundary Avenue.) See Harry Brown's reference to Camp Campbell below, but there was also a Camp Barker at 13th & R, which housed a freedman's barracks and hospital. For verification on that, see the history of the Metropolitan Baptist Church and Arcadia Publishing's The Neighborhoods of Logan, Scott, and Thomas Circles. If that doesn't satisfy you, there's a September 8th, 1889 Post article entitled "Free Aid to the Sick": "When [the hospital] was first established, in 1862, it occupied the square bounded by R and S and Twelfth and Thirteenth Streets, and was known as Camp Barker. It became the resort of refugees during the war ... "


 * Concerning the racial makeup of the neighborhood: I never "insinuate" that it was primarily African-American throughout its entire existence, I simply state that the area is most historically notable for its connection to late 19th and early 20th Century black intellectual and cultural life. That's not a controversal statement. If you want to add in some lines about how the neighborhood was more racially diverse through the first decade or so of the 20th Century, please do so.


 * And as far as the name goes, Shaw was never a) an unincorporated jurisdiction; or b) a precise geographical location; and thus was never "officially" named anything, at least not until the Metro stop came along. I don't know when the Junior High was built, but I see some references to it as early as 1921. Then again, I never say in the article that the neighborhood was called Shaw throughout its existence. That's a separate issue, in my opinion, from the history of the neighborhood--its settlement, I mean, and the definition of its character. It's probably more careful to say that the neighborhood was named after the school, which was named after the historical figure, although this seems like a small distinction to me, as small as arguing about whether Brookland is named after Colonel Brooks or Brooks Mansion. Again: if you want to add that line yourself ("The name Shaw comes from Shaw Junior High, which was itself named after Colonel Robert Gould Shaw ... "), please do so. Be Bold.


 * --Browncat (talk) 01:00, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

It was "Uptown" until Urban Renewal renamed it "Shaw" after the Junior High. The people (like my grandparents and great-grandparents and great-great grandparents) who lived there prior to "Negro Removal" never referred to it as Shaw. That's a key distinction. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Meanteeth (talk • contribs) 18:34, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Shaw East Historic Survey
Here is a Department of Interior funded Historic Survey of what is called Shaw East, done by Kelsey and Associates.

This is quite an exhaustive survey, with methodologies and bibliography.

There is a reference to a Camp Campbell outside Boundary, now Florida Avenue. The Civil War encampment known as Camp Campbell had been established at the beginning of the Civil War just outside of the boundary of the city, to the north of 6th and Boundary (Florida) Avenue, which obviously had a profound effect on the emerging neighborhood covered with this survey area. Occupied throughout the conflict, the edges of the camp attracted free black men and soldiers’ dependants all supporting the war effort; it has also been documented to have attracted religious institutions and housing speculators interested in supporting the camp through both religious means and profitable speculation of housing. Many of these groups formed congregations after the conflict and built wood frame chapels in the area, easily moved as land became more and more valuable and developed into rows of townhouses, such as the Trinity Methodist congregation

Another noteworhty quote for the racial make-up:

What can be clearly seen is that the survey area was populated mostly by white residents in 1880. Their occupations included painter, carpenter, grocer, store clerks, government clerks, plumber, post office workers, letter carrier, messengers, barbers, and teachers. By 1900, the area was a mixture of mostly white, with mulatto and black residents, with the white population clustered on the main north-south streets, close to the streetcar lines. Smaller streets such as Marion and Franklin Street, were almost exclusively black by 1900, while the remainder of the survey area was mixed, especially on letter streets, which often witnessed white, black, mulatto, and foreign born nationals living together on each block. The number of foreign-born nationals dramatically increased by 1900, mirroring the national trend. They may have found older housing in the Shaw East survey area that was both affordable and adequate for many of their rather entrepreneurial activities that were documented such as baking, bottling, blacksmithing, cigar making, and harness making. Countries in which survey area residents living in 1900 had been born year included the following: Austria, Canada, England, France, Ireland, Germany, New Zealand, Norway, Russia, Scotland, Sweden, Switzerland, and Turkey. By far, the most foreign born residents had hailed from Germany, with Ireland being second. By the time the 1910 and 1920 census was enumerated, this mix became even more diverse, but with a much increased black population in professional classes. Many worked as clerks, teachers, musicians, physicians, builders, carpenters, and hucksters. The 1930 census reveals, however, that the survey area was nearly completely populated by a black population, with a wide and diverse range of employment from barber, cook, sexton, bricklayer, waiter, laborers, cleaners, plasterers, chauffeurs, laundresses, and grocery store owners.

HarryBrown 19:12, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Paigehofstad (talk) 14:21, 20 October 2016 (UTC) transportation add to geography?

Paigehofstad (talk) 14:21, 20 October 2016 (UTC) add maps- when Shaw first came about and present

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Georgetown (Washington, D.C.) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:47, 23 November 2018 (UTC)