Talk:Shawn Michaels/Archive 3

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Input to the GA process
I’m not going to GA review it (I don't feel qualified) but I will give you guys a quick list of things I know you need to fix before it has a chance, I speak from experience here. And this isn’t an exhaustive list, just my first glance look at it, but it’s a start MPJ-DK 10:10, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

From AndyZ’s Automated review tool, stuff that’s easily fixed but will stand in the way of GA
 * Lead text is way too short, should have 3 to 4 paragraphs as according to Lead
 * This article needs to use the summary style with appropriate are used, especially for the Rockers and DX which both contains more details.
 * This article needs to use the summary style with appropriate are used, especially for the Rockers and DX which both contains more details.
 * Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), months and days of the week generally should not be linked. Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide context for the article.[?]
 * Per Wikipedia:Context and Build the web, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006.[?]
 * As per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), dates shouldn't use th; for example, instead of using January 30th was a great day, use January 30 was a great day.[?]
 * Per WP:WIAFA, this article's table of contents (ToC) may be too long- consider shrinking it down by merging short sections or using a proper system of daughter pages as per Summary style.[?]
 * There are a few occurrences of weasel words in this article- please observe WP:AWT. Certain phrases should specify exactly who supports, considers, believes, etc., such a view.
 * allege
 * might be weasel words, and should be provided with proper citations (if they already do, or are not weasel terms, please strike this comment).[?]
 * The script has spotted the following contractions: don't, wasn't, didn't, didn't, wasn't, didn't, aren't, if these are outside of quotations, they should be expanded.
 * As done in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the CMS, but not mandatory), such that there is no space in between. For example, the sun is larger than the moon [2]. is usually written as the sun is larger than the moon.[2][?]
 * might be weasel words, and should be provided with proper citations (if they already do, or are not weasel terms, please strike this comment).[?]
 * The script has spotted the following contractions: don't, wasn't, didn't, didn't, wasn't, didn't, aren't, if these are outside of quotations, they should be expanded.
 * As done in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the CMS, but not mandatory), such that there is no space in between. For example, the sun is larger than the moon [2]. is usually written as the sun is larger than the moon.[2][?]
 * As done in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the CMS, but not mandatory), such that there is no space in between. For example, the sun is larger than the moon [2]. is usually written as the sun is larger than the moon.[2][?]

Again, MPJ-DK, thank you for this. Luckily I also have AndyZ's peer review - which makes my job a whole lot easier! :) Davnel03 11:57, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Add the Rocker-Dropper as Finisher
It, technically, was his finisher when he was with the Rockers. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)
 * Sure, go ahead. Just make sure that you mention that it was his finisher in the Rockers, not after. (Sawyer 00:47, 29 August 2007 (UTC))

Survivor Series Return!
Why doesn't anybody mention something about the return of H.B.K. on Survivor Series?! It's True, after all! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)
 * Its not notable. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 15:13, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * To add to that it's not been announced yet. Wikipedia is not a Crystal Ball... Davnel03 09:28, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, it has been mentioned both on HBK's web page, and in interviews with magazines, newspapers, ect. However, the established policy is that we don't post anything about it until it has been announced officially by WWE, and I doubt that will happen until at least October. (Sawyer 21:26, 26 August 2007 (UTC))
 * No rumors or speculations belong in any article for the umteenth time. Even if it's on Michaels page, lets wait till it happens, because things could result in him not coming here reasons that are not limited to: recurring injury, death, ect. Please read WP:CRYSTAL. Thank You. -- KBW1 19:20, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

What if there's a source. Zenlax 1:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Again, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 23:32, 05 September 2007 (UTC)

I disagree, on jeff hardys page it did say that when he was out that he was suspended for 30 days but then it said that on jeff hardys web page "the hardyshow.com" that he was only out to recover from injury that was caused by Mr Kennedy. --Deathtopplintheir40s 12:39, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Just don't add it. It will be deleted. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 21:44, 02 October 2007 (UTC)

Another comment re improvement of article

 * Can a See also section be added which lists related internal (Wikipedia) articles in alphabetical order. For instance check out the What links here page.
 * Can any of the lists be converted to prose? Embedded list
 * According to guidelines on WikiProject Biography and Template:Biography things seem to be progressing well. SriMesh | talk  02:35, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

april 23rd edition of raw.
anyone care to explain why the information regarding the april 23rd episode of raw was deleted? it was the episode where michaels pinned cena at the end of the near hour long match. the match is regarded as epic, and it should be mentioned.Xchickenx 10:51, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

If it is indeed epic, why isn't it mentioned in John Cena's article? Zenlax 6:53, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

i dont actually pay attention to cenas article. but i did scan it to check, and whoever contributes to his article really rushes through. and i dont know if this has relevance, but cena did job for that match, and judging by his article, the contributors want his article to appear as though cena was on a roll and unbeatable. thats probably why its not mentioned there. but check out the reference, it has all the information there. Xchickenx 08:01, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Jim Ross claimed that that was one of the best matches Michaels has ever been a part of, and i agree, that was a great match and i dont understand why it is not mentioned here, and it will be mentioned in Cenas page eventualy. But that was classed as when the "show stopper" in Michaels came back, therefor is a important part of hbk's page and his role leading up to wrestlmania 23. --Deathtopplintheir40s 12:45, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Successful good article nomination
I am glad to report that this article nominee for good article status has been promoted. This is how the article, as of September 19, 2007, compares against the six good article criteria:


 * 1. Well written?: This article is well written and complies with the Manual of Style. You've clearly heeded the advice from Peer Reviews and GA Reviews.
 * 2. Factually accurate?: Plenty of references are provided for the statements made in the article.
 * 3. Broad in coverage?: Excellent coverage of the topic, and a great level of detail.
 * 4. Neutral point of view?: This article has been written from a Neutral Point of View.
 * 5. Article stability? I am satisfied that the article is stable.
 * 6. Images?: Images are used correctly, and licensed correctly.

If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to take it to a GA review. Thank you to all of the editors who worked hard to bring it to this status, and congratulations. —  Pursey  Talk 08:34, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

return
A while back the page said he was coming back in august, now thats come and gone and the page no longer has a return date. Now was that a wrong edit or was there ever a change of plans? and if there is a change of plans then could u put the return date on the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.181.90.156 (talk) 12:53, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

You should read the conversation on the top noting his return. Zenlax 20:06, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh thanks mate, haha i didnt see that. --Deathtopplintheir40s 12:35, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

How did this pass GA review?
While the article has come a long way and a lot of good work has been put into it, the article still has a ways to go. Strangly, I received a barnstar for helping to promote this article to GA from Zenlax, yet I practically did nothing to it. In an attempt to actually earn the barnstar and more importantly, better the article, I am now in the process of copyediting it and am finding some really bad prose, poor sentence structure, overall weirdness, and a severe lack of citations. In addition I am wikifying several wrestling terms and other words which should have easily been caught and fixed before passing GA. I am also going to point out a few things that I am not sure about, so that others might be able to fix them. I normally do this in a "Pre-GA review", but since this somehow already passed, here is my "Post-GA review":


 * AWA Paragraph
 * Sentence: They also appeared in the Mid-South on loan at this point. <---What is this? What does it mean? It is thrown in there with no detail, no reference and then is followed by another sentence that may or may not have something to do with this one. It is hard to tell if they are related or completely different thoughts. This thought either needs to be fleshed out or removed.
 * The last 4 sentences of the AWA paragraph seemingly have no citations.


 * 1988-1991 section - almost completely unreferenced.
 * There is only one inline citation in that whole section. While it all needs to be referenced as much as possible, the sentence about McMahon wanting WWF monikers and the sentences regarding Jim Neidhart's contract negotiations greatly need citations.
 * Also in this section it refers to them being "on TV" several times but never says the actual name of the TV program.


 * 1992-1993 section - same thing, needs a lot more refrencing:
 * Paragraph 1 - Sherri being infatuated with him, Sherri singing his theme song, "Shawn Michaels has left the building" all need references.
 * ✅ --   ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 22:56, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Paragraph 2 - First WWE ladder match, SNME title win.
 * ✅ Got it. Speed CG 16:09, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Paragraph 3 - (Not a citation/reference issue, but..) What does "he snuck past Tatanka" mean? The sentence should probably be reworded to make this point clear.
 * ✅ --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 23:08, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

I have to go for awhile, and will continue this review a la my previous Kurt Angle multi-part review as time allows, eventually getting through the entire article. Any changes that can be made to reflect the above suggestions/issues is greatly appreciated. '''Please check things off (with the ✅ tag) as they are completed. Thanks!''' --Naha|(talk) 22:13, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * 1994-1995 section
 * Paragraph 1 - The last sentence (Brett Hart/ladder match) definitely needs an inline citation.
 * ✅ --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 22:56, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Paragraph 4 - The last four sentences about The Clique need to be cited.
 * ✅ --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 22:56, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * 1996-1997 section
 * Paragraph 6 - Sentence 4 causing Smith to pass out in the Figure Four Leg Lock - was this real or kayfabe? That needs to be clear.
 * Paragraph 7 - The last 2 sentences (flag desecration) need inline citations.
 * ✅ --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 22:56, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I've done some more copyediting and am still working my way through the article. As usual, more input later. --Naha|(talk) 14:34, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * 1998-injury section
 * Paragraph 1 - Prior to losing the belt, Michaels, along with DX allies, made regular appearances much like Steve Austin did the previous year after injuring his neck at SummerSlam. Wrestlers such as Bret Hart, as Michaels reveals in his autobiography, did interviews on live television claiming that Michaels was faking his whole injury. Hart later apologized for these events.
 * (1) As much of this as possible needs to be referenced and given inline citations, especially the parts about people claiming he was faking his injuries and about Hart apologizing.
 * ✅ --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 22:56, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * (2) I don't think the like Steve Austin did the previous year after injuring his neck at SummerSlam part of the first sentence is necessary, nor does it add anything to the article aside from extra wordiness. If you agree, please remove it, if not, please defend its placement in the article.
 * ✅ removed. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 22:09, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * (3) made regular appearances where? Monday Night RAW? House shows? Meet and greets? The Tonight Show with David Letterman? Please specify.
 * ✅ --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 00:25, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * (4) When/where exactly did Hart apologize for "these events"?
 * ✅ --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 22:56, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Paragraph 2 - Throughout late 1998 and early 1999, Michaels made regular TV appearances, booking matches, throwing around his authority, and sometimes even deciding the outcome of matches. In early 1999, Michaels turned face and re-joined D-Generation X, but disappeared from WWF television for a few months, and by the time he had returned, DX had broken up.
 * (1) Again, if the actual name of the TV program(s) he appeared on could be used here that would be great "regular RAW appearances" or whatever.
 * ✅ --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 00:25, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * (2) Why did he dissapear from WWF television this time? (Ah, ok, I see down in paragraph 4 it explains his several "prolonged absences" were due to the opening of his wrestling academy. However, this information comes much too late and needs to be incorporated into paragraph 3).
 * (3) Michaels' prolonged absences were the result of his opening of the Shawn Michaels Wrestling Academy in early 1999. In February 2001, Michaels signed a multi year contract extension with the WWF. Both of these sentences need to be referenced and given in-line citations.


 * 2003-2004 section
 * Last sentence - Following this, Michaels was out of action for a few months with a legitimate torn meniscus. needs a citation.
 * ✅ --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 22:56, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm still going at it, got one more section under my belt this evening, as seen above heh. If anyone wants to start working on any of this, please feel free to start :) More later, --Naha|(talk) 23:09, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Blue, thank you so much for spending the time to take care of a lot of the problems I have mentioned above, you have done a great job. I'm still not done with this review and still have to go through the remainder of the article, but again you have made a great start. Right now this is on the backburner for me as I have a lot of other things going on, but I will finish it. Cheers, --Naha|(talk) 00:51, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Umm confirm or deny...Heartbreak Kid (Ben Stiller Movie)
It says hes is credited as himself in the movie The Heartbreak Kid can anyone confirm of deny this as a solid fact. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0408839/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.220.25.97 (talk) 11:00, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Well one way to find out. When the film comes out. Z enlax  Talk  Contributions
 * IMDB is not a reliable source. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 22:47, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * IMDB may not be a reliable source, but I think it's pretty likely that Michaels will be in a cameo role, especially since the producers would have had to get permission from WWE to use the title Heartbrake Kid. But regardless, Wikipedia is not a Crystal Ball, so we don't post anything about it until we have a reliable source. (Sawyer 02:03, 28 September 2007 (UTC))

Nope, the movie's a remake. They don't need permission from the WWE I don't think, especially since Michael's and the WWE appropriated the name "Heartbreak Kid" from the original movie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.151.155.142 (talk • contribs)
 * The movie may be a reamke, but the WWE owns the copyright to the name "Hearbreak Kid," so regardless of Michael's cameos or lack there of, the producers still needed WWE's permission to use that as the title. (Sawyer 04:38, 4 October 2007 (UTC))

Sawyer is so cute in the fact that she knows nothing about the law. First it would not be a copyright but rather a trademark in the name "Heartbreak Kid". Second, WWE has not had their application for the mark approved yet. See this website: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=oc23ak.4.1. The application was filed September 25, 2007. Of course the statutory rights are not in effect until the application is complete. (WWE may be able to claim some common law rights.) It is also not clear that movies and wrestling would overlap and afford protection from one goods or service to the other (See the above link and the goods and services applied for.  I realize that WWE and movies are both entertainment but we have no proof that the USPTO would take it past wrestling entertainment.)  Finally, even if the WWE had registered the mark 3 years ago the movie being a remake may still be an intermediate junior user and therefore would not need permission.69.86.184.244 04:49, 9 October 2007 (UTC)JL
 * Be courteous to one another. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 19:11, 09 October 2007 (UTC)

Do Not Remove Sharpshooter from signature moves
Hbk uses it in reference to Montreal Screwjob, and generally when he plays the heel role, like in the feud with Hulk Hogan at Summerslam 2005. Then Michaels is included in the list of wrestlers that used Sharpshooter, in the Sharpshooter main article. Please do not remove it. Thanks. Dave.01 23:11, 09 October 2007 (ITA)
 * IIRC, the only time he uses the Sharpshoote is when he is trying to get heat (which is usually only when WWE is in Canada). It's not a move he has ever used on a regular basis. TJ Spyke 23:44, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

He did apply a Sharpshooter on Randy Orton in their Survivor Series match--not to draw heat, but due to the stipulations of disqualification if he used Sweet Chin Music. He would apply other submission moves as well including the Crossface (a la Benoit, creating a stir) and Ankle Lock (a la Angle). Smobro68 (talk) 09:43, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Last of the AWA talent
Should it be noted that Shawn Micheals is the last of the former AWA wrestlers to still be active in the WWE? At least I think he's the last, if not, I think it should be noted that he is one of the last. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.144.177.39 (talk) 14:53, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, if it was added, what category would it be under? (Sawyer 22:59, 11 October 2007 (UTC))

Beats me. I just think it should be mentioned, as AWA was influential to the WWE in the fact that the WWE wooed most of the AWA talent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.144.177.39 (talk) 00:11, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

It should probably be added around the first section or something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.144.177.39 (talk) 23:37, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That's if he's the last member of the AWA. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 21:04, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

He is the last member of the AWA still active in WWE. Hulk Hogan was also in the AWA, but he only makes his "special apperances." I don't believe there are any other superstars on the WWE roster that wrestled for the AWA before it was bought out by Vince McMahon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.144.177.39 (talk) 05:47, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Marty Jannety still works behind the scenes in WWE, so Shawn wouldn't be the last of the talent. Also, please sign your posts. (Sawyer 00:35, 17 October 2007 (UTC))

On March 3, 2006, WWE announced that it had severed all professional ties with Jannetty without further explanation.

On September 15, 2006, it was announced on WWE.com that Jannetty had signed a new contract and would be returning as a veteran to work with younger talent. WWE.com also stated that Jannetty, along with two other veterans, could also be granted a full-time contract pending the success of this initial venture.

However according to Wrestling Observer Newsletter, Jannetty was rumored to have been released yet again on September 29th. Jannetty himself countered this rumor on his MySpace page, stating it was untrue. However, the January 2007 issue of WWE Magazine stated that Jannetty had been fired.

On December 22, 2006, Jannetty replied through his MySpace website, stating that it was The Boogeyman who had been fired and not returned WWE's phone calls. Jannetty insisted that the article in WWE Magazine was false. On December 24, 2006 in a blog on his website, Jim Ross stated that Marty Jannetty was no longer with WWE.

I don't look to me like Marty Jannetty works for WWE anymore. As I said, Shawn Micheals is the last of the ACTIVE AWA wrestlers. Sgt. Slaughter still does his guest appearances. So does the Hulk. The bottom line is Michaels is the last active AWA wrestler in the WWE and I think it should be noted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.144.177.39 (talk) 17:51, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

HBK IS THE NEW WWE CHAMPION
He won the Belt Tonight 8/28/2007 on Cyber Sunday! He got voted for the most, and Orton got DQ'd, SO HBK IS THE NEW CHAMP! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.44.225.21 (talk) 02:04, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

The only reason I won't insult you is because I must ASSUME GOOD FAITH...

1. Shawn Michaels did not win the WWE Championship tonight, because he won by disqualification. (See Professional_wrestling)

2. How do you not know this? Are you a wrestling fan? If not, why have you been vandalizing WP:PW articles?

Lex94'''  Talk  Contributions  Signatures 02:17, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

It's August now? BTW, that loud bang you heard was my head exploding. Nothing more. Mshake3 03:18, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

i, too, must assume good faith, but i cant help but laugh! thats pretty ignorant. Xchickenx 03:38, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm, u mean u didnt see the end of the match where u would have heard the winner of this match by DQ hbk, therefor orton is still wwe champ. -- Metal to the M ax!  11:28, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

w/John Cena Tag champ picture
Does anyone else feel it should be removed? It adds nothing to the article and is incredibly blurry and hard to make out. Gavyn Sykes 04:04, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd keep it only because it's an image of him with a championship. If a better one can be found, then it should be used. At the same time, the picture just plain sucks, so it should be removed just because of that. Mshake3 04:11, 31 October 2007 (UTC)'

English
If a wrestler from the United Kingdom wrestles in America for WWE such as Finlay. Who is apparently from Northern Ireland, Belfast however he is considerd American by all people who watch wrestling from the United Kingdom. It is fair to say that we can class Shawn Michaels as a ENGLISH wrestler. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.104.51.181 (talk) 11:49, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I'd also like to point out that this is a FACT so don't try disputing it. English people can class him as English!
 * Where do you get that he's English? --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 19:49, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * His from San Antonio,TX so i dont know how you think his English in any way. -- Metal to the M ax!  11:30, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

And being from England I'd like to point out that I consider Finlay to be, strangely enough, Northern Irish (political complexities ignored) just like I consider HBK to be American. Tony2Times (talk) 20:06, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * He's not English, but American. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 01:52, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

April 23rd, 2007.
Should it be noted that his match with John Cena on April 23rd, 2007 gained "Best Match of 2007" on WWE.com by the fans or is it not important enough? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.209.140.21 (talk) 00:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It should be mentioned. Z enlax   T  C <font size="-3"> S 20:04, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Uh, then why isn't it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.209.140.21 (talk) 23:30, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Be aware, there's speculation that the Polls are rigged by WWE.com. See the article at www.nodq.com Resonanttoe (talk) 14:13, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

rig or not, It's one of the most talked about and highest rated matches of the year.. 142.162.207.62 (talk) 18:52, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Now I'm questioning it. How would it fit the article? Z enlax  <font size="-3"> T <font size="-3"> C <font size="-3"> S 20:28, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean by that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.162.205.90 (talk) 20:41, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikiquote Link Removed
I don't know why, but Shawn Michaels does not have a Wikiquote Article, so I removed the link. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zack Shadow (talk • contribs) 09:58, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Good job. But next time, be careful to what you actually remove. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 17:12, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

...Any particular reason you decided to re-add it before checking, the day after I told you it wasn't there? Zack Shadow (talk) 03:44, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * See here. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 20:44, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

...And? I get it, I removed the media link by mistake, I'm sorry, but according to the revision history, on Jan 3 you re-added the WikiQuote link. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zack Shadow (talk • contribs) 23:58, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I know, but I undid my edits and fixed it. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 00:44, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Drug Problems
Is it worth mentioning all the problems that Michaels' had in his early career, where he took pills etc., and had a falling out with Triple H and was fired from the WWE in 2001? Watching Heartbreak & Triumph was a real shock factor in seeing that HBK, wasnt exactly the biggest role model after his injury in 1998. Masterofdestiny (talk) 10:32, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * He wasn't fired in 2001. <font face="Arial"> Speed CG  Talk 16:36, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Trust me mate, he was fired, in Triple H's own words, the night the WCW purchase aired, he states the Shawn entered McMahon's offcie, where he, Undertaker and others were watching, and Shawn entered pilled out, and Vince later told Shawn that he was gone, and then Shawn entered the locker room and claimed Triple H stabbed him in the back, and then the two didnt speak for a year, before Kevin Nash told him to call Triple H, which he did and then he suddenly got a call to ask if he could make it to RAW for the nWo angle, its not word for word but thats the jist of it. Masterofdestiny (talk) 9:02, 14 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.6.84.130 (talk)


 * I've read the book and I've seen the DVD and nowhere does it mention that Shawn got fired. However, in the night that Shane bought WCW, they were going to use Shawn, but he was "pilled out" of his mind, in which Vince did indeed told Shawn they weren't going to need him, as per Triple H telling Vince that Shawn was out of it. But never fired. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 02:50, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Well its close enough, he was released is that a better term, I still think it ought to be mentioned, I mean whenever other wrestler have had personal demons or alike, its been mentioned. Masterofdestiny (talk) 8:32, 16 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.6.82.141 (talk)

Personal Life
Someone needs to edit his personal life sectin. It looks like someone discovered his last name for the first time and went crazy with it. It keeps on saying Hickenbottom blah blah blah.... Hickenbottom doo doo de da.... and just keeps on going and going. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.88.124.171 (talk) 02:56, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That's how it should be. Per WP:PW and WP:BLP, non-wrestling sections should use real names. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 02:58, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

New Inverted Figure Four Submission Finisher
Shawn debuted a new version of the figure four this past Monday on RAW to Trevor Murdoch by executing a feint Sweet Chin Music into the move. This should be added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.191.86.225 (talk) 10:39, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It looked like he was going to do the Sharpshooter, left everyone to breathe, then tranisitioned it in a way which the commentators could only descibe as an "inverted figure four leglock". There's one problem, though; there does not seem to be an appropriate entry on the list of Professional wrestling holds. Check the vid here: http://www.wwe.com/shows/raw/videos/ Dlae  │  here  17:29, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I've linked the move to the Leg-and-ankle lock. Dlae  │  here  17:35, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * He's only used it once. There is no way to know if he will use it on a regular basis and to say he will is crstalballing (which is not allowed). I am removing it, do not put it back unless he uses it on several occasions.  TJ   Spyke   21:05, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * He attempted to use it again on the January 21, 2008 edition of RAW on Mr. Kennedy. I am not sure whether it was actually applied, but it looks as it will be used from now on. Probably not as frequently as Sweet Chin Music. GuffasBorgz7 (talk) 13:13, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Doesn't matter, he didn't use it, so its still not notable. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 20:22, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

He used it again this week and apparently he uses it next week on Jeff Hardy. I think it's fair to say it is part of his arsenal if he continues to use it or attempts to used it week after week. (Winston Deckard) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.127.220.65 (talk) 04:42, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok the move is listed on wrestling holds page as a modified figure four leglock. Should we just go with that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WinstonDeckard (talk • contribs) 07:46, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Picture
I realize there their are limitations on what pictures can be used on here, but that picture that is currently up there is horrible looking. There has to be one that better than that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.107.217.175 (talk) 14:23, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Pardon? Which one? Z enlax  <font size="-3"> T <font size="-3"> C <font size="-3"> S 17:00, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

The main one above his stats and info. 75.107.217.175 (talk) 23:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you happen to own a free-use image of Michaels? --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 01:25, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * If you dont, then this picture stays, helps the article, ;).  N i m i  T i <font color:"blue">z <font color:"light red">e 01:01, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

KEnnedy-HBK Feud......
Small Text Since jerichos return, michaels started feuding with kennedy right? why doesnt anybody mention that??202.175.228.105 (talk) 15:31, 21 January 2008 (UTC)lordzeus
 * If the feud doesn't last long, its not notable. If it does last long, it will be added. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 15:44, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It has almost been 2 months. I think it can be added. Feed  back  ☎ 02:40, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

its been 2 and a half months.. add it.

142.162.191.122 (talk) 15:03, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Now that I see it, what exactly did Michaels gain in his feud with Kennedy? --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 01:43, 5 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Win and a loss.  Sexy Sea  Shark  16:39, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Defensive wording of back injury
The article currently states: "He was inactive from in-ring competition from 1998-2002 due to a legitimate severe back injury." A legitimate back injury? What other kinds of severe back injuries are there? What, people are going to think it was an angle if you don't put "legitimate" in there? He was out for four years! Just call it a severe back injury and be done with it. 69.215.146.236 (talk) 13:26, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you Repeat that, I didn't really understand.  N i m i  T i <font color:"blue">z <font color:"light red">e 01:02, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Do we really need to be sarcastic? --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 01:57, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Needs to be updated!!!!!!!!!!
Many of WWE superstars pages have not been updated. i have updated Umaga and JBL but there are HEAPS MORE!!!! Please tell everyone!!!!! 14:42 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * And what exactly needs to be updated? --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 04:07, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * And please sign your posts. (Sawyer (talk) 06:02, 2 February 2008 (UTC))
 * when i say upate i mean information after armageddon 06:02, 2 February 2008 (UTC))
 * Well I did update it but Blue reverted it. =)-- T r U C o 9 31 1 01:45, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Truco, what you added, was the fact that he participated at the Royal Rumble, as we all saw, he didn't win the Rumble, which doesn't make it notable to add to the article. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 02:07, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

A match at the Royal Rumble is notable. It should be added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.146.198 (talk) 08:17, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Don't know if this helps in the notable department, but while Shawn did not win the Rumble of 2007, he and Undertaker did go a good long while as the final two before Shawn was finally eliminated. Then, in a weirdly cool irony, in 2008, they started the Rumble (Shawn drew #2) going some 30-odd minutes before eliminating Undertaker then quickly being eliminated right after by Kennedy. Smobro68 (talk) 09:56, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If he would have won it, then it would be mentioned in the article. But since he didn't win it, its pointless to add it to the article. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 22:57, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

ok maybe not the rumble but what about the with kennedy, armeggeddon, Raw 15 century an beating trevor for spot at the rumble. its been months till this was updated!!!--Fhassan (talk) 21:28, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That's because nothing notable has happened in months. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 21:36, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Exactly. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 04:45, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Except for the new submission Michael's has been using. But since I am inept at editing someone else needs to do it.WinstonDeckard (talk) 23:06, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Even though the Rumble was not notable, what, your going to say "Shawn Michaels enter in #30 AT THE 2008 Royal Rumble, and got eliminated by Kennedy", even that won't make sense.  N i m i  T i <font color:"blue">z <font color:"light red">e 23:58, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I doubt that would be added in the article. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 00:54, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yea I know, that's why I pointed out even if it was notable, it wouldn't make sense.  N i m i  T i <font color:"blue">z <font color:"light red">e 00:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Mabye this article would get a update after No Way Out, if Michaels wins the Chamber match, or at Wrestlemania 24, if something big happens. Yea, we know that the article does not have updates, but it matters if its notable, or if its week by week.  N i m i  T i <font color:"blue">z <font color:"light red">e 01:00, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

i may not be a big influence around here, but here is a list of things that i think should be included If you don't agree please let me know User:Edgebelow (talk) 16:05, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Notable fueds
 * Pay-per-veiw matches
 * Qualifications (eg. Royal Rumble)
 * I disagree with the qualification for the Royal rumble being added. Qualifying fot the rumble is not notable at all. It's notable if you win the rumble, but other than that, no to qualifying matches. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 17:20, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree, qualifications are non-notable. Unless an elimination or an action within the Rumble match sparks a feud between two wrestlers, or is continued within the Rumble match (such as Chavo vs. Punk this year), the match itself is non-notable unless they win. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 19:30, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The only thing notable that would happen so far, if Michaels qualifys for the Money in The Bank AT Wrestlemania AND wins it.  N i m i  T i  z e  17:30, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * He's facing Ric Flair at WrestleMania.  Sexy Sea  Shark  17:33, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well then, if he beats Flair and ends his "career", that should be added, unless its not notable.  N i m i  T i  z e  04:33, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If he does "beat" him, then yeah it would be notable to add. But, if he doesn't then.... no, its not notable. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 02:27, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Does the information stated in the present section be mentioned? Even though, it was nothing of notability in Michaels career? Z enlax  <font size="-3"> T <font size="-3"> C <font size="-3"> S 19:17, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

New Move
Somebody please add the new finisher of Shawn Michaels. The Submission manuevre that looks like a Modified figure four leglock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oliver3 (talk • contribs) 13:29, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Finisher?  Sexy Sea  Shark  16:39, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * According to JR, the move is called "Almost a version of an Indian Deathlock, with some Figure 4 principles". I propose it be added under that name. Tnova4 (talk) 07:49, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I say we add the new submission the way it's being called in the Wrestling Holds page, which is a modified figure four. Simply for continuity purposes.WinstonDeckard (talk) 05:07, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The move yes, but not as a finisher. Z enlax  <font size="-3"> T <font size="-3"> C <font size="-3"> S 14:53, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Hasn't he started using the crippler crossface as one of his finishers also? 129.67.39.147 (talk) 14:54, 18 February 2008 (UTC)Icosahedron
 * I believe he's used it about once in the last couple of months, so that would be a no. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 17:33, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * His reverse figure four or whatever it is should be added. No to the crossface, he's used it twice in the past few months, both times unsuccessfully. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 17:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I personally call it a "Sit-down inverted Sharpshooter" since its applied initially like a Sharpshooter but then he pulls their extended leg under his arm, pins their knee with his knee and sits down. All the same I've never seen anything like it before. SuperSonicTH (talk) 03:30, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

He used the crossface on Umaga (dually with Jericho executing his Walls Of Jericho) during the Raw Elimination Chamber at No Way Out 2008. The new submission finisher was used on Lance Cade on Raw February 25, 2008. Had Trevor Murdoch not interfered causing a DQ, Shawn could have won by submission. Smobro68 (talk) 11:11, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Very true, but its not notable if will continue using either both submission moves. Z enlax  <font size="-3"> T <font size="-3"> C <font size="-3"> S 21:09, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

New Honor To Add
Just got a copy of Pro Wrestling Illustrated, and the Shawn Michaels vs. John Cena 4/23/07 Raw match was voted Match Of The Year. Though the runner-up listings aren't posted, but their Wrestlemania match was voted second-runner up. At one time there was a little tidbit that said he's had the most MOTY winners; the count is now 8 and no one seems close to that mark. Smobro68 (talk) 09:51, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * And your point is?  N i m i  T i <font color:"blue">z <font color:"light red">e 01:33, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Please assume good faith, NimiTize. Smbro, WP:PW consensus is that PWI awards are not notable enough to be added. Cheers, Gavyn Sykes (talk) 01:41, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well I don't disagree with Gavyn, but since when has that policy been enforced?-- T r U C o 9 31 1 01:45, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I brought this up because all of his other PWI honors are listed. Just looking for an update. Smobro68 (talk) 11:08, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

New Moves?
HBK Has been Using the Crippler Cross Face, He used it At No Way Out in the EC And On Randy Orton At Survivor Series And a Couple Other Times, should'int be Listed?, And Another Thing i havent Seen Him Use the Lou Thesz press In a long time so i really dont think that should be there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.168.196.73 (talk) 07:39, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This is being discussed above. But he has used the Crossface all of TWICE, neither time actually making his opponent submit, so it's not a notable move. As far as the Lou Thesz press, I have no idea, so we'll have to wait for other opinions. :) Gavyn Sykes (talk) 16:30, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * During his feud with Edge and Orton, he used the Lou Thesz press. And that's a long time ago.  Sexy Sea  Shark  17:22, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

as i stated on the triple h discussion page it seems a lot of people have been using the crossface in their matches, i think it might be a silent tribute to chris benoit, if you watch backlash again, i noticed, almost everymatch had a crossface applied at one point. Darcphoenix2 (talk) 04:45, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * POV.  Sexy Sea  Shark  16:45, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Match With Flair?
Hey Guys i Was Reading HBK'S Page and The Last Update Was the Match With Orton which was Alittle While Ago, And With his Up Coming Match Vs Ric Flair i think that should be there i mean come on All the People who is in the Money in the Bank have it on their's And This is probly Going to be the Best Match there i think it's a little un fair not to have it there And i understand it's an upcoming thing but still the Jeff Hardy,Mr. K, Ect have it on theres. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.168.196.73 (talk) 01:10, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No future events, Wiki is not a news site. Wiki is an online encyclopedia. Thank You.-- T r U C o 9 31 1 01:14, 29 February 2008(UTC)

Thats my point Sir, No Futrue events? Please Re-Read what i Said first On Jeff's Page it talks about him going in the Money in the Bank and all the other peoples pages that are in it do you get me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.168.196.73 (talk • contribs)
 * Please sign your posts. I don't know about the MITB, but all I know is that future events are not allowed to be added in the articles. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 02:20, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Flair opened the challenge to Michaels for a match at Wrestlemania 24 on the February 25, 2008, edition of Raw (after a match between Shawn and Lance Cade). Shawn, citing reluctance to follow through and be the one labeled as the one who retired Flair by way of the "edict" set in motion by Vince McMahon, politely turns him down at first. Flair, citing that just because Shawn will face him does not mean it's a given that he will lose and retire, and that "all of the respect (Michaels paid Flair when announcing Flair as a Hall Of Fame inductee) means nothing if you don't give me an opportunity to have the greatest match of my career on the grandest stage of all", persuades Shawn to accept the challenge. There hasn't been much in the way of follow-up but everything seems positive about it so far. The match is also listed as on the card for Wrestlemania 24. http://www.wwe.com/shows/wrestlemania/matches/6464438/preview/ Smobro68 (talk) 12:27, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, and? No future events. A match about 6 weeks from now funnily enough is a future event! ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 13:55, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Then how about the Michaels-Kennedy feud which took place between past event Michaels-Orton and future event Michaels-Flair? Not trying to ruffle feathers, but the information is a little behind. Smobro68 (talk) 08:34, 3 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Not notable for Michaels, but notable for Kennedy.  Sexy Sea  Shark  17:04, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Former Wrestling Move
First of all, I love to read your Wiki entry abut HBK ^^. For a bit of an addition to his wrestling moves though, I did recall him using a Frankensteiner maneuver during the mid 90's, well noted especially during his match with Owen Hart in In Your House 6: Rage in the Cage and the British Bulldog in King of the Ring 1996. Unless I missed it (my apologies in advance), I couldn't find it in your list.

In addition again, it is also worth noting that when using the skin the cat, he would sometimes combine it with a head scissors to throw his opponents out of the ring (in case they're close when Shawn is in the process of rotating his body backwards) before completing the maneuver to go back into the ring. For reference, some of the events when he used this maneuver was in Survivor Series 1995, King of the Ring 1996, and Wrestlemania 19. Darkness Fatale (talk) 13:32, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

historical smackdown appearance
he appeared on smackdown last week for the first time since 1999 - which was as a special referee on the debut episode, and last week was the first time he ever actually wrestled on the brand, now i think that deserves a mention —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.199.28.195 (talk) 03:06, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * How would that really be important? Note: He made two appearances last year on SmackDown! --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 14:47, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

It would be important because HBK hasn't been on smackdown for years and rare appearances are valuable so I think it should be mentioned —Preceding unsigned comment added by BestBenoitFan (talk • contribs) 06:39, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * What exactly has he accomplished in his appearances on SmackDown!? --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 18:37, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Nothing, but it is an interesting little fact, I like interesting little facts... Altenhofen (talk) 00:35, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * But Wikipedia doesn't. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 00:53, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

The Man
Anyone think The Man should be listed in HBK's nicknames?Kirby17 (talk) 16:27, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh, no. I have never heard him called that. – L A  X  16:58, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes.  R k O R  T o  N  17:18, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * To clear it up, he beat the man (Flair), and now he is The ManKirby17 (talk) 17:25, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * But no-one has called him that. I never heard JR/King call him "the man" on Raw, so I say it stays out. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 17:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I know. I just wanted to know what you guys thought. Kirby17 (talk) 21:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I think shawn micheals should be WWE champ and face tripleH for it. Than Shawn keeps the title by beating tripleH. And shawn should get in phisical shape. for a Triple threat match. And Shawn could beat the great the reterning The rock.

Brendan Shipton —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.63.119.87 (talk) 23:33, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * wikipedia is not a forum ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 23:36, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not actually watching RAW, but I read a report that HBK refered to himself as "The Man" Kirby17 (talk) 01:16, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * As did I. Z enlax  <font size="-3"> T <font size="-3"> C <font size="-3"> S 18:42, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That makes once. I still don't think it should be on the page. If he refers to himself constantly as "the man", i.e. over a period of couple of weeks, and not just as a once off thing then yes, but until then, it's not really a nickname. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 19:09, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Its like Orton, who refers himself as the "One May Dynasty". And, like Nici said, if he continues using the "nickname", then it should be added. But, until then, its not notable to add. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 21:29, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

The Crippler Crossface
Now is a signature move of Michaels, please add it. --KingOfDX (talk) 21:12, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * How often has he been using it? – L A  X  21:23, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * On rare occasions, so it shouldn't be added until it becomes a week by week used moved.-- ~    S    R    S    ~   21:25, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * OMG, there's already a thread about this. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 03:18, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm adding it, he's used it on every PPV match hes been in (Bar the Royal Rumble) since Cyber Sunday and on a couple of Raw's too. He's certainly used it more times than his "Modified Figure Four" -- Tobythegreat (talk) 12:02, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Its not one of his moves. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 00:42, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Sigh, he used it AGAIN tonight (Judgment Day 2008), but because it was Benoit's move you guy wont let it be on the page. Can't you realise it's one of his moves now? -- Tobythegreat (talk)


 * No, not really.  Sexy Sea  Shark  15:37, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, he used it last night, but is it still notable that he will continue using it? --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 01:41, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I say give it more time, if he continues using it like in every match, then yes, but for now, he only uses it on rare occasions, and doesn't qualify as a signature move.-- S R  X  02:09, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That's exactly what I'm saying. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 02:23, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm gonna have to steal another guy's argument for a second and say that it's used A LOT more often than moves like the modified figure 4, and there's no argument against that being on the list. 3pointswish (talk) 00:52, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * There was a discussion about the Modified Figure Four and was added to the list. But, the Crossface is still unknown. If he continues using it, then fine, the Crossface should stay in the list. But, if he stops using it, then it should be removed. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 02:48, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * He's used the Crossface far more than the reverse figure four. However, he's never actually won a match with the Crossface, he has with the leg lock. So it's confusing. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 03:17, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, where gonna have to see what happens. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 21:44, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

umm guys...
Backlash has past a long time ago. shouldnt they add something about his match with batista? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.87.188.58 (talk) 11:03, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope. That was not a notable feud. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 15:16, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I did add something to the article about the feud and the matches with Chris Jericho but someone removed it, though i dont know why.Skilldog2 (talk) 23:23, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Its still not notable whether his feud with Batista or Chris Jericho will last. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 02:08, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, Chris Jericho just threw Shawn Michaels through a television. Should the feud be added now? 67.142.130.15 (talk) 03:13, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Lets see where it goes. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 14:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with Think Blue. Altenhofen (talk) 00:33, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

FMW appearance
Shawn guest refereed a match between H and Darkside Hayabusa, FMW 11.23.99 Special —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.104.226.174 (talk) 21:16, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * How's that important to the article? --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 02:01, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

It was during his temporary retirement —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.104.226.174 (talk) 14:14, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Did he accomplish something during that run or what? --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 19:48, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

No, it was a one time appearance, though still notable because of it's surprising nature, and unexpectedness —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.104.226.174 (talk) 17:28, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Not really, it would seem to be more like trivia info. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 19:10, 19 May 2008 (UTC)


 * If you can source it, you can add it as far as I know. Altenhofen (talk) 00:31, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Even with a source, it would be pointless to add to the article. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 16:24, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've got the VHS tape sitting right here in front of me, if that's source enough? I bought it at Sam Goody back in the day just because Michaels was on it. Powerwrestling.com answered that question for me several years ago, as to why he was at this event and they said it was because WWE was interested in Ricky Fuji, but never signed him. However, this isn't really a big enough deal to put it in this article. He refereed the event, got involved and then said some nice words about FMW and left. Not a big deal.

Middleeasternfilms (talk) 18:38, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

ring names
Shawn Michaels has many ring names such as HBK, The Heart Break Kid, The Show Stopper,and The Main Event. Sean Michaels is not one of them but Sean Michaels is the only ring name on the profile and it won't let me edit the page. Shavon.roberts (talk)SMGRShavon.roberts (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 14:16, 25 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Sean Michaels is sourced, and the others are just nicknames, not ringnames. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 15:56, 25 May 2008 (UTC)


 * First off, it is Shawn, not Sean. Second, those names are nicknames, they are already in the article. Altenhofen (talk) 00:29, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Watch the Heartbreak & Triumph DVD, cause its stated right there. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 16:23, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Bastista and Chris Jericho programs
Ok Michaels's page has to be edited soon to include information about his rivalry with Batista and Chris Jericho's added involvement. His story seems to end with the Wrestlemania match vs. Ric Flair but that is not all. A lot has happened since then. Jdog3628 (talk) 19:40, 2 June 2008 (UTC)Jdog3628
 * They are not notable to Micheals' overall career, per WP:PW. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 20:58, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The feud has to go somewhere. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 21:33, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * True enough, but it's notable yet as we don't know where it's going. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 21:38, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Exactly. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 02:19, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Something to add to moves
What about those quick flurries of snap jabs (usually followed by a knockdown punch, I believe) Michaels often does? 69.23.151.9 (talk) 15:21, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * How would that be notable to add? --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 15:57, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Because he does that in the vast majority of his matches. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 16:01, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Would it be notable to add? Not sarcasm, just asking. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 22:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see why not. Not sure what it would be wikilinked to though. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 02:35, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * We could put one of those citation needed things, or we could get permission from an admin like LAX to ad unsourced info. Altenhofen (talk) 00:26, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * What do you mean put a citation tag? On what? --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 16:20, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

HBK
was the nickname "Heart break Kid" coined because of the feud (that he ultimately won) between him and Bret Hart? after all, HBK did "break" Hart's WWE career. Altenhofen (talk) 00:24, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No, HBK appeared long before that feud. And I don't think it is accurate to say that he won the feud or that HE broke Bret's WWF career: Bret left voluntarily and all the controversy is due to Vince McMahon, not Shawn. Str1977 (talk) 09:41, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * He acquired the nickname in 1992 and his feud with Bret Hart was in 1996-1997. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 16:22, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

HeartBreaker
The 4 figure leg lock of HBK is called Heart Breaker.IF someone could put it cuz I cannot   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.205.2.198 (talk) 14:27, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Source? Gavyn Sykes (talk) 15:52, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Please, no original research. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 10:15, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

here is the source

The French Wikipedia can't be used as a source... RandySavageFTW (talk) 19:26, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Or even the Spanish! ;) ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 20:02, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Unlisted signature move
Don't any long time fans remember how back around 1992-1993, Michaels would often do a top-rope clothesline in his matches? Why isn't it here? For that matter, what about the fast left-handed jabs following by a right hand he used to do? 69.23.151.9 (talk) 18:23, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Jumping Piledriver still used?
I don't recall him ever performing this in recent times. Plus, the move is banned from the WWE as far as I know. Should it be listed as a regular move from 1995 to, say, 2004? I would think he stopped using it somewhere in there, but I don't know. Cale (talk) 06:36, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Between Leaving The WWF And Returning
The article says nothing about his time between leaving the WWF and returning. That shouldn't be skipped over. Mr. C.C. (talk) 17:45, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If you read the Commissioner (1998–1999) and Return to wrestling and feud with Triple H (2002–2004) sections, their stated right there. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 20:40, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Overselling
nothing about how HBK basically oversold that match with Hulk Hogan? i'm sure i read something about it here before, though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.106.183.123 (talk) 12:30, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * How is that important to the article? --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 14:20, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That can go on SummerSlam (2005) article. D.M.N. (talk) 17:33, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Michaels is injured. I was there and when he fell out of the ring at a house show he looked like he tore something I went on numerous websites and it has said the same thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.60.221.121 (talk) 22:46, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I searched on Google and it does say that he's injured, but a reliable source is needed to go with that info. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 17:23, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Did you search Google? You could of headed straight for WWE.com. D.M.N. (talk) 17:33, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I didn't see WWE.com in one of the Google searches. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 22:45, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

http://fans.wwe.com/jimross/blog jr says he tore his tricep —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.188.115.30 (talk) 01:15, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That's just some fan; ignore it.  SteelersFan  94  01:17, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The link that DMN added is from WWE.com and is very legit. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 19:08, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Injured triceps
Shawn Micheals is currently inactive due to injured triceps. although not torn he is still taking time off for them to recover. Do you think that it is valid infomation.Mvpisthebest (talk) 09:09, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It should be noted. I have no clue why it's not. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 14:21, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Its noted. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 19:49, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

PWI MOTY for '93
Cited source says it was their RR match, not the Raw one. [|This] says just "Raw," but they had two Raw matches in 1993... RandySavageFTW (talk) 23:01, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for bringing that up, its been changed. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 23:07, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

So is Accelerator not a reliable source? It's pretty confusing how I've seen all 3 of their '93 matches referred to as the PWI MOTY. RandySavageFTW (talk) 23:08, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * No, but you can ask to see if it is. BTW, by reading this, it seems that the match of the year by PWI was the Raw encounter, so I reverted my edit. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 23:21, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

You should cite that one then, since the cited one still says RR... I think the one that says 5/17/93 looks the most reliable, so I'll just forget this. RandySavageFTW (talk) 00:40, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Various Feuds (2007-present)
At No Mercy, Shawn Michaels wrestled Jericho again, but this time for the World Heavyweight Championship in a ladder match. However, Michaels lost after Jericho strucked him with the title belt. He then entered a feud with JBL beginning at Cyber Sunday when JBL attacked him after interfering the world championship match between Chris Jericho & Batista. --LukasVandelanotte (talk) 21:02, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. —Ms2ger (talk) 09:22, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The info. that the user stated above is not notable to include, as it really did not helped Michaels career in any way. Until it has somewhat of a significance, then it will be added. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 21:02, 23 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that the Ladder Match was the end of the long feud with Jericho, It's notable. --KingOfDX (talk) 19:01, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

heel turn
shawn micheals may have turned heel on monday night raw. he assepted jbls offer. i know this is not a week by week thing but when can we add more info about shawn micheals about hos feud with jbl because it is getting quite significent with hbk career. this could be done with oter superstars and divas from the wwe.Mvpisbetterthanyou (talk) 07:07, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * As you stated yourself, he may have turned heel, we are unsure as of yet. Also, feuds aren't added until they are over, or if they are notable to their career, which, now, it is not. -- Rebirth  T  hom   11:06, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * First of all, this "heel turn" is not notable and quite frankly seems like original research. Keep in mind that this talkpage is not a forum, but a discussion for improving the article. The "feud" between Shawn Michaels and JBL is not notable and shouldn't be included in the article, until something "major" happens. Also, like the fellow above me, until its over and somewhat of a significance, it would be added to the article. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 17:05, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

He's not heel, it's the crisis, it's all part of the storyline, hbk appeared with triple h on a christmas thing as DX The Master Of All Wolves (talk) 17:39, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

the page says that professional wrestling is a theatrical event combined with competition..how is it competive? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.255.46.89 (talk) 17:44, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

I happen to agree with Mvpisbetterthanyou. HBK is bordering on becoming at least a tweener and is receiving boos from the audience. This is notable. Cheers_Dude (talk) 04:08, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Its still too soon to add any of this. If this lasts a little more, then yes, it will be added to the article. Until then, its not notable, per here. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 04:24, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Ok! I can agree with that. Cheers! =) Cheers_Dude (talk) 11:00, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

He is more a tweener at this point in time than a heel. He is still facing heels in matches and acting like a babayface. Defacto he is a tweener for being a face working for a heel.-- Will C  11:37, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Opening
Anyone else feel that the opening of this article is too massive and contains a lot of information that belongs in the body of the article. In my opinion, the opening should be rather short and give a summary on what you'll be reading made into 2 or 3 short paragraphs at most. The opening of this article contains way too much info in my opinion. Thoughts? Cheers_Dude (talk) 18:11, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Ladder match
user ThinkBlue has said that the Ladder match being Shawn Michael's specialty is POV. Hasn't the WWE stated numerous times that the Ladder match is Shawn Michael's specialty? Cheers_Dude (talk) 03:08, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Stating that is trivial to the article. Its like saying that Triple H's "specialty" is the Elimination Chamber. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 03:54, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Not looking for your stance on the issue. We obviously disagree. I'm hoping for a comment from a third party. Also, my edits not belonging in the opening was a silly comment to add into an edit summary given that half of that stuff doesn't belong in the opening. : / Cheers_Dude (talk) 04:03, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I already asked a third party with this. First of all, the lead (the opening paragraphs) is there to summarize the entire article, see WP:Lead. As I said in my edit summary and my comment above, stating that the Ladder match and Iron Man match are his "thing" is trivia and should not be included in the article. Also, this comes from a point-of-view. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 04:28, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Michaels was involved in the first Ladder match, but it wasn't his idea to create the match, so we couldn't it add it to the article like it is in The Undertaker. In addition, that information is not adhering to WP:TRIVIA because it is not adding anything that is stated in the article and it is not backed up with WP:RS.--Truco 04:31, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * HBK was not in the first Ladder match. He was in the first mainstream but not the first. Crap he has nothing to do with the match besides being in the first mainsteam one.-- Will C  04:54, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough! Per this consensus, I shall step back on the Ladder match being specialty. Wasn't aware of that Truco. Thank you. Also, WillC, you're point was kind of effective. I mean, I haven't really seen him in many Ladder Matches other than the first one. Mainly, I was just going by Jericho's behavior towrds HBK in their last fued in which he kept acting as if it was HBK's specialty, acting jealous that HBK got more credit than he did. But again, that's just him so that doesn't necessarily make it his specialty. Just thought it be something interesting to note in the article. I do not however agree that the Lead looks appropriate. I truly feel that it is way too massive and a lot of that stuff should be removed into the approriate places in the body of the paragraph, but that looks like a lot of work to do and although I'd love to do it, I wouldn't want to go to all the trouble if it would all be reverted and judging from ThinkBlue's comments, she's willing to do just that so I'll just leave it alone. Thank you, all three of you! =) Cheers_Dude (talk) 10:58, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Well ThinkBlue is the one who took it to GA and was taking it to FA but thought it was too much trouble. She is more familar with the article and probably knows what is best in this case. Considering how much research she's had to do. Plus she is a very expirenced editor, so she should be knowledgeable enough to know what should be in the lead and what should not; I'm just saying. Plus, matter of fact, HBK had nothing to do with the creation of a ladder match, which was created in Canada, I believe. The first mainstream one was actually in 93 during a house show. The WrestleMania one with Scott Hall is considered the first mainstream one though. So adding anything about a ladder match makes no use since he has only been in two ladder matches that I remember of. One for the IC belt at WrestleMania and one at Argmageddon 03 in a Three Stages of Hell match for the World Heavyweight Championship against Triple H, with it being the third fall.-- Will C  11:35, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

He's been in more than two ladder matches. Regardless! As I just said in my last post, I'm fine with not having the Ladder match info and I'm not going to work on the lead seeing as how the many revisions that I think are desperately needed could be reverted. Done! Cheers_Dude (talk) 17:10, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Finishing Move
In WWF Super WrestleMania, Shawn uses a suplex in which he places his opponent in a vertical suplex position, but then turns them to their side before dropping them. I can't find any other place that shows him using this move... or even that the move exists. Can someone help me find this and thus find whether or not it's appropriate to add to the article. --  Darth Mike  ( <b style="color:red;">Talk</b> • <b style="color:red;">Contribs</b> ) 18:55, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Alright, I've looked everywhere I can't find any information about this move, so I'm thus concluding that the move was used in this game as a replacement for the tear drop suplex. --  Darth Mike  ( <b style="color:red;">Talk</b> • <b style="color:red;">Contribs</b> ) 04:20, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Tattoo??
Why isn't there any mention about the tattoo of his daughter's name on his left arm,right next to Cameron?[Video Of Micheals getting tattoo] --Krazyj2010 (talk) 21:29, 23 January 2009 (UTC)krazyj2010
 * From that video, you can't really verify that those tattoos have his children's name on it, is there a link to WWE.com or other photos that can verify this?-- TRU    CO   21:53, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I tried finding the pics on WWE.com and couldn't find it,but it does show the tattoo.I will try and do some more research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Krazyj2010 (talk • contribs) 03:06, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Here is the url of HBK getting his daughter's name tattooed under the tattoo he has for his boy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLYEWgInw9Q —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrissytina515 (talk • contribs) 06:54, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Update
I've finnaly updated the page, it was about 6MM out of date.  ←Kala  jan→   21:15, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * An update is sorely needed! This is a very important storyline of Shawn's! And if JBL's page is being updated surely HBK's should. 84.68.103.250 (talk) 21:38, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I've proposed it at WP:PW.  ←Kala  jan→   21:41, 26 January 2009 (UTC
 * As far as I'm concerned, ether the HBK - JBL thing happened, or Shawn was shot dead following Unforgiven. 84.68.103.250 (talk) 18:16, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm waiting for a response.  ←Kala  jan→   18:40, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No. What you've written is a summary, a big summary, which quite frankly doesn't belong to this article. Like I've said in other discussions, adding it right now doesn't help the article, its not a career highlight. Until this ends and whatever happens, then yes it will be added to the article. Until then, this is not notable, per here. --   ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 20:29, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, it's over now. Update please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.144.213.138 (talk) 18:48, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it is over. Something needs to be done. Mrpengo88 (talk) 18:49, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Early Life
In reference to: Then he began pursuing a career in professional wrestling, a type of sports entertainment in which theatrical events are combined with a competitive sport. I think the descriptive of professional wrestling at the end of that sentence is unnecessary. There is a link to the professional wrestling wiki article in the second line of this page. If professional wrestling needs to be explained in this article about Shawn Michaels, it needs to be done prior to this point.Ztheday (talk) 20:02, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The reason it was mentioned is because not that many people know what professional wrestling is. Yes, there's a link, but it helps to add a little detail to it. Professional wrestling articles, including this one, need to written from an out-of-universe perspective, so that other people, who are not familiar with the subject, can know what certain things are. Also, there have been discussions about this, especially things related to this, at the wrestling project. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 20:22, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Wrestler Names and Links
Why are some of the wrestler names written in plain text and immediately followed by their real name linked to their wiki page? But in other cases they are not. This is inconsistent. I'd prefer to see the wrestler name used with a link to their wiki. A wrestler's real name is not important to this article per se. A few exceptions may exist (i.e. Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, etc.)Ztheday (talk) 20:18, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Read this discussion. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 20:25, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks.Ztheday (talk) 19:58, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Grammatical Error
"This group of wrestlers were known for their sophomoric crude humor." should be changed to "This group of wrestlers WAS known for their sophomoric crude humor." —Preceding unsigned comment added by PatNeedham (talk • contribs) 17:40, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't know,those always confuse me,WERE sounds good to me though,because of "Wrestler(s)" so I'm pretty sure it's right.--Krazyj2010 (talk) 18:51, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

It should be "was" because the group is the noun (subject) and "of wrestlers" is a preposition —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.106.250.92 (talk) 22:06, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

JBL/HBK Feud
Let's get to it. It's been going on through PPVs, so it belongs here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.144.213.138 (talk) 19:44, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * A lot of non-notable feuds get PPV matches. Not saying this shouldn't be mentioned, just pointing out that having a PPV match doesn't make a feud notable.  TJ   Spyke   19:52, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I mentioned PPVs because week-by-weeks aren't allowed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.144.213.138 (talk) 20:08, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Where are the general guidelines for notability of a feud? My intuition is that this should count, as it tied directly into at least one title match. Emurphy42 (talk) 19:36, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Somewhat of a notability. This, however, has nothing of a significance. It wasn't a highlight to his career. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 19:43, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, that's nice and uselessly subjective. How is this any less notable than, say, his feud with Batista post-WM24? (Mind you, I'm not endorsing the write-ups that have already been done and reverted; the ones I saw, at least, were horribly written.) Emurphy42 (talk) 23:00, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, let's see, HBK and JBL only wrestled each other one match during this feud, am I correct? Batista-HBK came from Ric Flair's retirement and it was more heated than JBL-HBK. Kinda obvious which one is more notable.  Simon KSK  23:18, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * ThinkBlue, its been 2 years since i've been seeing this page and you'll always be sayin' nothing is important in his career thats happening right now what about his employment in the JBL enterprises, his match at no way out, his match next week with jbl that whom wins faces undertaker at wrestlemania 25. now that is comletely unfair. He beat John Cena and than managed JBL at the royal rumble superkicked both jbl and john cena then next week lost to john cena what about that. --Fhassan (talk) 13:20, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * That's pleasant, telling me shut up and using the f-word towards me. Though, I am going to be bold and assume good faith here. What significance does it have to include that Michaels was JBL's employee? None whatsoever, I didn't help him in anyway, though it did help JBL gain a title shot, so that would belong in his article. Yes, if he beats JBL next week, oh, jolly, don't you think something would be mentioned something leading up to WrestleMania between Michaels and the Undertaker? I mean, think about it. Also, just imagine if every feud Michaels' has been in, this article would be extremely long. Also, his match with Flair at WrestleMania led him to feud with Batista, from which that feud led to his ultimate feud with Chris Jericho. One more thing, Fhassan I would suggest to read WP:CIVIL and WP:ATTACK, just pointing it out there. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 15:51, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I am sorry. I was harsh and i understand that. It's just that some time my anger level goes high up... really high up. Sorry again :( but still he had a title match with Jericho that must count something in his career and about so many feuds making the article too long well, that doesn't matter because it will be long because his career is very long. He has been wrestling since exactly 25 years. The longitude of his profile/article means what thing he has done in his career. Again sorry :( but you know he is my favorite.--Fhassan (talk) 16:02, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Something NEEDS to be done! He's already turned heel and then face again and that's not notable?? Mrpengo88 (talk) 06:20, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Michaels was never heel during his time with JBL.  TJ   Spyke   06:28, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually he was suppose to be upset not a heel--Fhassan (talk) 09:00, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Whatever happens this week on Raw needs to be added because it inlvolves a Wrestlemania match. 84.71.222.234 (talk) 10:15, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

The feud is OVER now is the time to add something. Mrpengo88 (talk) 19:14, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. They've wrestled twice recently, both times with high stakes (Michaels' contract / shot at Taker at WM25), which (along with breaking Koslov's streak) IMO deserves at least a short paragraph (around the same size as John Layfield. Emurphy42 (talk) 18:03, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I just read it and I'd have to say yes to an add--Falegas (talk) 16:33, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Contract status from 1998 - 2002
Does anyone have definitive evidence that he was CONSISTENTLY under contract to the WWE during this period? Sure, he made a few appearances, but this may have been on a pay-per-appearance basis. I've read several articles saying that he was not under contract to anyone for much of this time and even considering a move to WCW. Does anyone actually know what his contract status with the WWE was at this time? It's clearly relevant to the article as it implies that he's been contracted since 1987 without a break. 89.168.223.102 (talk) 21:16, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I think his most recent DVD may mention it, I will have to re-watch it to check.  TJ   Spyke   22:02, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * He was still in contract with WWE. Its stated in the book. Also, the only time he wanted to go to WCW was when he was in his real life feud with Bret Hart. --   ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 22:34, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

In order to achieve consistency in this article (in line with various other professional wrestling pages), there needs to be several key modifications: 1. 1995-1997 should not be titled "The Clique's influence". This is far too prejudicial, and not even relevant, as the clique disbanded in early 1996. A far more suitable title would be "Rise to the Mainevent". The timeframe shoudl be extended to 1995-1998, as he was active on the roster (as an in-ring performer) until march 1998. 2. Additionally he should be acknowledged as commissioner from 1998-2000 (not 1998-99). 3. His contract status should be clearly mentioned: Michaels signed the WWF/E's first 'downside' guaranteed money contract in March 1996 for 750,000 a year, which lasted 5 years. In 2001 he signed a 5 year contract extension with the intention of returning to in-ring wrestling at Wrestlemania 17. However, due to substance abuse issues, this never occured, but the contract stood intact. In 2006, he signed a new 5 year deal for 1.5 million a year. 4. The same detail and analysis used in Bret Hart's and Ric Flair's introduction should be used for Michaels. He has received more Prowrestling Illustrated Match of the Year awards then any other Pro Wrestler. And Vince McMahon has, on numerous occasions, described Michaels as "the greatest in-ring performer of all time". I would be more then happy to provide references for this (both Michaels DVD Heartbreak and Truimph, and a 2002 press release). The same vivid discription used in Hart's introduction, describing his monikers and his favourable legacy, should be applied to Michaels. A 2005 quote from Vince McMahon is utilised in Bret Hart's introduction, describing Bret as "the greatest storyteller of all time". Michaels, based on his accolades, tenure, body of work and the fame/success he has achieved in modern Pro Wrestling history, deserves the same lofty treatment. No questions asked.

(There are numerous other references and quotes from co-workers and officials that refer to Michaels as the greatest athlete in WWE History. These con-workers and officials include, Triple H, CM Punk, Chris Jericho, Jim Ross, Ric Flair, Kurt Angle, Michael PS Hayes, Vince McMahon, Pat Patterson and numerous others)

Without these details/corrections/facts, this article is flimsy, biased and inaccurate.

Wrestlemaina XXV
He also ended the streak of vladimir kozlov to earn the right to try to kill the Undertakers wrestlemainai 16-0 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.230.90.233 (talk) 01:07, 4 March 2009 (UTC)


 * HBK did not gain anything for ending the Streak but it should be noted as he would challenge the Undertaker's own streak, especially if HBK wins against the Undertaker. If HBK lost to Undertaker in the end, HBK should still be noted due to the value of the kind of match. Undertaker definitely would get the Great Gain as he would be 17-0. Also, we should need a source to back it up if it is actually really Notable, which I believe it is. Darkness Wolf (talk) 06:55, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

THANK YOU!
Thanks for the update! But would the Taker vs Micheals at WM be notable? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrpengo88 (talk • contribs) 04:23, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe after WM. Right now it can't be added since WP:PW policy is to not list future matches (except on the PPV article of coarse).  TJ   Spyke   05:12, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * After WM. Ps. Isn't breaking Kozlov's thing notable?--Falegas (talk) 16:58, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

So Michaels never had a World Championship Ladder Match? Huh, that's funny I coulda sworn he did. And I'm pretty sure he had a Last Man Standing match with Jericho too to end the feud and in that match JBL hit him with a chair costing him the match which bridged the rivalry with Jericho to the rivalry with JBL at Survivor Series onwards. In fact I was so sure of it I found links on wwe.com and SLAM! Sports that supported the fact and added it into the article. But apparently I either made it up or a World Championship match isn't noteable enough because it was deleted. Not edited, just out and out deleted. Tony2Times (talk) 01:17, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * It's all true and notable--Falegas (talk) 16:59, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe as 1 sentence when writing up the Undertaker feud. Not much to write up since it wasn't really Kozlov's first loss (hell, he was pinned by Jeff Hardy at a live event the previous day and had lost many times at live events). Maybe something like "He defeated Vladimir Kozlov, ending his undefeated streak in singles competition, to earn the right to challenge The Undertaker" (but better worded).  TJ   Spyke   17:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah that could be quite Ok--Falegas (talk) 17:14, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Mr. Wrestlemania
With the "Mr. Wrestlemania" title being laid on Shawn Michaels in his upcoming match challenging The Undertaker's 16-0 streak, would it be appropriate for the Shawn Michaels Wikipedia page to have a "Mr. Wrestlemania" section -- much like Undertaker's "streak" section -- simply giving the matches in which he's participated, his opponent in those matches, the victor, any titles that changed hands, and any accolades (Match of the Year, etc) that the match received? Dapolla (talk) 12:35, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's just a nickname that he gave himself because he said he always puts on a show at WrestleMania. The Undertaker's streak is something WWE itself started tracking and mentioning.  TJ   Spyke   19:01, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Mabey but WWE also now reconizes HBK's Mr. Wrestlemania status! I mean just listen to the announcers and they'll say it themselves "No one has every out performed Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania!" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.93.167.109 (talk) 00:14, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No, they recognize it as a nickname. Should we consider Triple H "the game" because announcers say that nickname? Should we consider Shelton Benjamin to be the "Gold Standard" because announcers say that nickname too? "Mr. WrestleMania" is just another nickname he came up with, it's not a title.  TJ   Spyke   00:31, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Feud with Jericho
The feud did not end at Unforgiven. They had another match at another PPV and it was a ladder match and it was for the world title; why does nobody add it? (I tried but it was deleted for having too much detail) Then they had a Last Man Standing match where JBL hit Michaels with a chair transitioning his feud from one to the other. It happened back in November, it's not week by week information. Tony2Times (talk) 16:31, 20 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately a few people believe they own this page, and are very reluctant to adding anything. It was in March 2009 that this page was updated from September 2008. We're going to have to get used to it. Ivecenanuff (talk) 16:38, 20 March 2009 (UTC)


 * That's quite poor by my view. And are we going to add Undertaker v Shawn to this page or not?84.71.222.234 (talk) 10:40, 6 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Probably gonna wait to make sure they don't have a return match so that the feud is over before adding it. Tony2Times (talk) 22:05, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

what about the sharpshooter he uses that everyonce in awhile at least he used to someone should put that in  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.173.6.154 (talk) 20:26, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * What does that have to do with anything? -- ThinkBlue   (Hit   BLUE)  03:28, 13 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Jericho is gone, but even if he wasnt they havent had a match in a long time so it wouldnt be wrong to say that feud is over. Ive Cena Nuff (talk) 01:22, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Ric Flair?
As part of the storyline involving Ric Flair, Michaels faced Flair in a Career Threatening match at WrestleMania XXIV

That's it? Really? I know there's a limit to what you can add, but seriously I think everyone knows one or two more sentences that can be added. And I also think that the various feuds section can be split into 2, but thats not as big of a deal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.175.16.166 (talk) 04:21, 19 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Not that I disagree with that, but if I were to try and change it I would most likely be reverted on the spot and have to argue with a bunch of users who don't like updating the page. I do agree there's about one or two more relevant sentences. Ive Cena Nuff (talk) 02:08, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Article Overhaul
In order to achieve consistency in this article (in line with various other professional wrestling pages), there needs to be several key modifications: 1. 1995-1997 should not be titled "The Clique's influence". This is far too prejudicial, and not even relevant, as the clique disbanded in early 1996. A far more suitable title would be "Rise to the Mainevent". The timeframe shoudl be extended to 1995-1998, as he was active on the roster (as an in-ring performer) until march 1998. 2. Additionally he should be acknowledged as commissioner from 1998-2000 (not 1998-99). 3. His contract status should be clearly mentioned: Michaels signed the WWF/E's first 'downside' guaranteed money contract in March 1996 for 750,000 a year, which lasted 5 years. In 2001 he signed a 5 year contract extension with the intention of returning to in-ring wrestling at Wrestlemania 17. However, due to substance abuse issues, this never occured, but the contract stood intact. In 2006, he signed a new 5 year deal for 1.5 million a year. 4. The same detail and analysis used in Bret Hart's and Ric Flair's introduction should be used for Michaels. He has received more Prowrestling Illustrated Match of the Year awards then any other Pro Wrestler. And Vince McMahon has, on numerous occasions, described Michaels as "the greatest in-ring performer of all time". I would be more then happy to provide references for this (both Michaels DVD Heartbreak and Truimph, and a 2002 press release). The same vivid discription used in Hart's introduction, describing his monikers and his favourable legacy, should be applied to Michaels. A 2005 quote from Vince McMahon is utilised in Bret Hart's introduction, describing Bret as "the greatest storyteller of all time". Michaels, based on his accolades, tenure, body of work and the fame/success he has achieved in modern Pro Wrestling history, deserves the same lofty treatment. No questions asked.

(There are numerous other references and quotes from co-workers and officials that refer to Michaels as the greatest athlete in WWE History. These con-workers and officials include, Triple H, CM Punk, Chris Jericho, Jim Ross, Ric Flair, Kurt Angle, Michael PS Hayes, Vince McMahon, Pat Patterson and numerous others)

Without these details/corrections/facts, this article is flimsy, biased and inaccurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JQCT (talk • contribs) 07:42, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Without going into all of your comments, I will address some: 1)There is no source for Michaels contract situation and thus won't be mentioned. Same with the source for wrestling at WrestleMania X-Seven (that was never the plan). You comment on the current state of the article is your opinion only and not factually accurate.  TJ   Spyke   21:52, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Shawn michaels IS injured
I have tried numerous times to put on this page that Shawn michaels is currently inactive, yet it is constantly deleted. There are numerous sites and magazines that state this, and the fact that he is not participating at the moment in WWE is an OBVIOUS fact tht he is taking time off. If my attempts are going to continually be deleted, PLEASE will someone else put it on this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.31.173.239 (talk) 13:55, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 1)It's not notable if he is active or inactive (and it's unknown why he is, don't speculate). 2) Telling others to put it in won't get it in.  TJ   Spyke   14:54, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

He is not wrestling at the moment. How can it not be notable that he is inactive? It's obvious that he is. I agree however that there has been no comfirmed news that he is injured but he is NOT wrestling at the moment. I rely on Wikipedia to give up to date information, yet michaels has been out since Wrestlemania 25 and nothing has been updated to the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.27.58.145 (talk) 12:14, 24 May 2009 (UTC) Still there? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.28.160.74 (talk) 16:26, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I have already answered, it's not notable that he isn't active right now. He is taking some time off but "inactive" usually means they are injured or don't wrestle for a long time. If he goes a few months without appearing I could agree.  TJ   Spyke   16:32, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but he is either "active" or "inactive". If he isn't wrestling (and he is not wrestling at the moment) then he is inactive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rev Edward Brain, D.D. (talk • contribs)

Billing names
Has he ever been billed as HBK or Heart Break Kid or 'The Heart Break Kid' or anything like that? I'm surprised to see it absent on the data, was it really only ever a nick name? Tyciol (talk) 05:57, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's never been anything but a nickname. His ring name in WWE has always been Shawn Michaels and he didn't start the HBK nickname until 1992.  TJ   Spyke   20:18, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * He's usually billed as "The Heartbreak Kid, Shawn Michaels" these days. Never heard them just announce him as the "Heartbreak Kid." Gavyn Sykes (talk) 23:58, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Usually its "From San Antonio, Texas weighing 225 pounds. The HeartBreak Kid, Shawn Michaels" Not just "HBK" or "The Heartbreak Kid" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrissytina515 (talk • contribs) 06:59, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, he was billed once as just "The Heartbreak Kid". It was during the 2008 Royal Rumble match by Michael Buffer (he was the guest ring announcer for the event). Buffer announced him as "Entry number two, HBK - The Heartbreak Kid". Don't think it's that important to be honest, just thought I'd mention it. 86.42.241.178 (talk) 13:01, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Too long
The various feuds section has grown too long - way too long. Couldn't it be divided in --Senkris (talk) 13:33, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Tag team feuds (2007) - this being Rated RKO and Cena...
 * Feuds with Ric Flair and Chris Jericho (2008)
 * Feuds with JBL and Undertaker (2009-present)
 * There's a reason why that section is there. -- ThinkBlue   (Hit   BLUE)  03:03, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

The section would be better off divided into --81.157.126.162 (talk) 04:21, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Chasing WWE Title (2007)
 * Fueds with Ric Flair and Chris Jericho (2008)
 * Fueds with JBL and Undertaker; Hiatus (December 2008-April 2009)
 * Return and DX Reunion (August 2009-present)

Definatly at the vary least add the Return of DX part because that seems to be on a permanet basis now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.7.201.91 (talk) 15:27, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

What the hell? ITS TIME TO UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Undertakers page has more detail than Shawn's!! And they have been doing similar things. what the hell? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.7.201.91 (talk • contribs)

Why do you guys keep taking out Shawn Michaels feud of the year with HHH in 2004,while listing his feud of the year with Jericho in 2008, and taking out his two 5 star matches he had with the Undertaker in hell in a cell and with Razor Ramon in wrestlemania 10? Those are parts of his accomplishments with a link to the page showing that he won it so why do you guys keep removing it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.131.179.151 (talk • contribs)
 * The 5 star matches are not accomplishments, they are just one person's ratings for the match and they are already mentioned in the article.  TJ   Spyke   20:03, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism?
Alright, I'm new to Wikipedia so I got no clue how to change this, but `He has large support groups and has an Official Youtube Fan Support page is http://www.youtube.com/user/hbk281923` Added by Hbk281923 is not official. I don't know how to edit Semi-Protected pages, so can someone edit it when they have the time? :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shawn_Michaels&diff=318620862&oldid=318463803 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Acidburn08 (talk • contribs) 09:03, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I've reverted the spam. Thanks, ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 15:52, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

New section
I have been considering adding a new section Return of D-Generation-X, due to this being the return of one of the most popular teams ever. Just to add, this is no longer Various feuds. Please answer-- The Celtic Cross  (talk)  14:41, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I see no one is against the idea-- The Celtic Cross  (talk)  16:47, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter if DX is a very popular tag team, the article is extremely long, and doesn't warrant a new section. It's not notable how long they will be teaming together. The current section is fine. -- ThinkBlue   (Hit   BLUE)  16:52, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, considering how long the Various feuds section is (2007-present), the change is almost obligatory. And considering how long they've been together already and how they didn't break up at The Survivor Series, you ask me...-- The Celtic Cross  (talk)  22:07, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Just on quick comment, but DX has only been back together for 3 1/2 months (they reformed in mid-August).  TJ   Spyke   23:32, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Which is, quite a long time. And he isn't feuding with Triple H is he? This is more tag team than feuds anymore-- The Celtic Cross  (talk)  16:28, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, check this out:


 * 1) 2.3.1 Return to wrestling and various feuds (2002–2005)
 * 2) 2.3.2 Feuding with McMahon; reforming DX (2006–2007)
 * 3) 2.3.3 Various feuds (2007–present)
 * Get me?-- The Celtic Cross  (talk)  16:35, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Isn't anyone going to answer?-- The Celtic Cross  (talk)  16:31, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I am not strongly opposed to starting a new section for 2009, but not the way you worded it. Keep in mind that the article is supposed to cover his whole life. If we had a section for every year or every feud, articles like Ric Flair or Hulk Hogan would be over 500K in size.  TJ   Spyke   16:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * So you do not think that Return of D-Generation-X is a suitable name? I'm in favor of making a new section, but the name I think could vary. Any ideas?-- The Celtic Cross  (talk)  23:42, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Come on already! He just won the Tag Titles again. I think that warrants a new section for this incarnation of DX! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.7.201.91 (talk) 06:46, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I've already added it-- The Celtic Cross  (talk)  15:17, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Slammy's
Is it notable that Shawn has more Slammy's than any other wrestler? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.7.201.91 (talk) 08:13, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * If you can source such statement with a reliable reference.-- Will C  09:50, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

wtf
It's starting to get seriously annoying that every wrestling article on wikipedia needs to explain what wrestling is and that it's theatre...if you're on a wikipedia article for Shawn Michaels, you either know that, or you can take two seconds to read the article on professional wrestling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.79.238.203 (talk) 09:25, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Every article about a football player doesn't state that "football is a game played with an odd-shaped ball which players use to reach an 'end zone' in order to score points. The team with the most points at the end of a football 'contest' wins." If somebody started adding that to every article about a football player, it would start to get very, very annoying. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.79.238.203 (talk) 09:30, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Wrestling is fake, that is very notable. Football is a legit sport. People know it is a legit sport. The lines of wrestling being real and fake are still blurry to some. That isn't the point though, since in the end wrestling is still scripted and that needs noting.-- Will C  15:27, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No, it doesn't need noting. A comparable example would be acting, you don't have every TV and film article explaining what acting is. Some people think fictional shows/movies are real too, doesn't man we should dumb down everything so they don't gt confused. Same thing with wrestling, every wrestling article already links to the page on professional wrestling (which does explain how wrestling really works).  TJ   Spyke   17:40, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You misunderstand the idea. Not explaining the entirety of wrestling. "Wrestler A then attended the professional wrestling school The Funking Conservatory where he learned the act of scripted combat." Simple, it shows wrestling is scripted right there. Enough done. Think next time man. I wouldn't be talking about actor articles, etc either. Our's are wrote in the idea of the character rather than the person. You will never read an actor article say "Then Bale played John Conner in Terminator 4. Conner went on to battle the evil cyberdyne and try to destroy all the terminators with help from Marcus Wright."-- Will C  21:34, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I think part of the problem is that people look down on wrestling, so some wrestling editors want to over-compensate by explaining every little detail and being more strict than even the rules and guidelines require. My statement about not needing to explain wrestling being fake was more aimed at stuff like pay-per-view articles and title articles. There is no need to explain in PPV articles that wrestling is fake anymore than movie articles need to explain it is fake too.  TJ   Spyke   00:11, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

We are talking about one being complete fiction and the other be somewhat fiction. They are not the samething and this is not the place to discuss that. IN-U is a guideline we should follow with all wrestling articles. PPVs are no longer deeply in depth on wrestling. It is better than it was when it began. Be happy they changed. Articles should be more encyclopedic and teach the reader. Not be a fanish in wrestling universe only article for news. Anyway, this is not the place at all to discuss PPV format. This is about Michaels.-- Will C  09:57, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Flat out, it does NOT need to be explained in EVERY article. It's moronic to do so.  Cra sh  Underride  23:00, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Part of the Shawn Michaels page needs to be corrected.
Okay so the part that is incorrect is the second paragraph under The Heartbreak Kid (1992–1995. Specifically "Michaels failed to win the WWF Intercontinental Championship from Bret Hart in July 1992, even losing against him at a live event in the WWF's first-ever ladder match." That however, quoted from his book is incorrect on many levels. First until their ironman match at wrestlemania IX the two have never fought except in tag team. Secondly the first-ever ladder match was between Michaels and Ramon not hart. Also in 1992 Hart already had the WWF title not the intercontintental title. So those entire two lines are falsified.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by HBKfan1 (talk • contribs) 22:59, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Your statement has several errors. First, Bret Hart was the Intercontinental Champion in July 1992 (his second reign was April 5, 1992 to August 29, 1992), Hart won his first WWF Championship at a live event in September 1992 when he beat Ric Flair. Second, the first ladder match was in Stampede Wrestling, not WWF (even WWE admits this, they have that first ladder match from 1979 on their "Ladder match" DVD). Ramon-Michaels was the first televised ladder match in WWF. Third, Michaels and Hart had faced each other in singles matches several times (including once on PPV, Bret Hart defended the WWF Championship against Shawn Michaels at Survivor Series (1992). I think that takes care of all of your claims.  TJ   Spyke   21:45, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

The first ever ladder match was Hart vs Michaels at a house show in the summer of 1992 when Bret was Intercontinental Champion. Fact. Bret didn't win the WWF heavyweight championship until October 1992. They had the ladder match in early July just before Summerslam when Hart lost to Davey Boy Smith in England. Its in both Bret's and Michaels' books, I've watched it plenty of times. They wrestled numerous times before the Iron Man Match including a cage match in 1992, tag matches at house shows, and singles matches at house shows during 1992-1994. Bret wrestled Michaels in the main even at Survivor Series 1992. Its included the the WWE DVD: Greatest Stars of the 1990s.

THIS IS INCORRECT: THEY WRESTLED THE FIRST LADDER MATCH IN JULY 1992 AT A HOUSE SHOW. I'VE SEEN IT MANY TIMES AS WELL AS READ ABOUT IT. BRET WAS INTERCONTINENTAL CHAMP UNTIL SUMMERSLAM 1992. THEY ALSO WRESTLED A CAGE MATCH IN THE SUMMER OF 1992, AND WHEN BRET WON THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP IN OCTOBER OF 1992, HE WRESTLED MICHAELS AT SURVIVOR SERIES 1992 IN THE MAIN EVENT. THEY WRESTLED AT NUMEROUS HOUSE SHOWS AND ON WWF SUPERSTARS BEFORE WRESTLEMANIA 10. ALSO, THE IRON MAN MATCH WAS AT WRESTLEMANIA 12, NOT 9. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.52.215.137 (talk • contribs)

Match of the Year 2009
Shawn Michaels won the 2009 match of the year award by PWI Trucrypt (talk) 18:12, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you have a source?  TJ   Spyke   21:59, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

PWI 2009 Year End issue that just came on sale. January 2010 issue. http://www.pwi-online.com/ Trucrypt (talk) 02:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)