Talk:Sheik Ali

Copy-edit
Copy-edited today, as requested. Tag now removed. thisisace 23:28, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Review of sources
After an administrator ruled this article should be kept as notable, I give notice that it is my intention to re-nominate this for deletion. But first I will review the sources that are there in combination with the administrator, 's observations;


 * - Identified by 78.26 correctly as a government source in Australia, it does not give hugely detailed information. This I agree with. But 78.26 fails to note that the 1998 book it relies upon is the book that is subject to a conflict of interest - written by Ayoub's son Libyan and subject to - as noted in the deletion discussion - myth and legend through professional wrestling embellishments. I understand that it was this book that made some of the outrageous claims that were previously removed, such as some of the material removed by me. So the claim here that "he became a popular figure across Australia" is questionable to say the least.
 * - Identified as unreliable by 78.26 as it is user generated it will be removed.
 * - Identified as a historical society by 78.26, an admission is made again about the conflict of interest, but it also claimed that there is a lot more through a "book" by Smith, York and Milano called "The Golden Age of Professional Wrestling". In fact there is no such book. It is in fact a radio transcript which is reproduced here. Far from more detailed there is one mention and no detail at all. Therefore this historical society source relies entirely on the COI book.
 * - This is no longer available but I found it on archive.org here. It's an audio blog with guess who? Ayoub's son again. COI.
 * - 78.62 agrees that this is a casual mention only even though it is independent. On the basis of the previous bias noted the claim to being one of the top wrestlers of the era remains questionable.
 * - 78.62 said, "There is a half page on Ali in Hornbaker's book. This is independent and reliable." How is it reliable? What is his source? A half page in a book of 568 pages hardly proves notability at all. The claims in this source need to be verified. This is another reason why I am delaying the return to deletion.
 * - 78.62 called this a directory listing only. I agree and I am prepared to call it unreliable. It will be removed.
 * Just a point of order, a directory is not necessarily unreliable, a directory listing does not help establish notability, but that does not mean it can not be used as a source to confirm information. I make no claims one way or another as to the reliability of this particular source.   78.26  (spin me / revolutions) 13:52, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I never said you did make any claim to begin with. I simply quoted what you did say, and I will add that now that I have looked at it for myself in detail (multiple pages rather than the linked page) it's a bare listing that doesn't even mention Sheik Ali either so it's accuracy needs to be questioned. The Sources listing at WP:PW has Wrestling Data as in the middle; that is it's reliability is not yet proven. Using this person as a guide I would say not reliable. I stand by my call to remove it from the article. Addicted4517 (talk) 23:22, 3 April 2018 (UTC)


 * - 78.62 claims that this furthers the claim to notability but as per the Hornbaker book above there are no sources to back up the claims. These are needed as well. The claims are self serving and therefore controversial.
 * - 78.62 agrees that this is a casual mention only and does nothing to prove notability.
 * - This is another casual mention that is agreed upon.
 * - 78.62 didn't see the mention here but it's there and casual yet again; "Best buddy and running mate King Curtis was a part of the army, which peaked in 1973; so were Wadi Ayoub and Spiros Arion, as they fought Big Bad John's army of heels".
 * - 78.62 inexplicably calls this significant information, when there is just one mention yet again. This claim requires an explanation.
 * - Yet again this relies on Ayoub's son in a conflict of interest.
 * - And this one is another casual mention.

It was also mentioned in the deletion discussion that Australian newspaper archive Trove has no coverage in any publications. However upon a casual browse of the major daily newspapers this coverage generally stops in 1954. One Melbourne newspaper (the Sun) is not there at all. However I feel sure there are other online options. The major dailies also have indexes although professional wrestling coverage was at best brief with simple results. I challenge all users to find sources to support the claims in the article that don't rely on the COI book, in particular, and. Casual mentions are not enough. Addicted4517 (talk) 13:41, 3 April 2018 (UTC)