Talk:Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne

Untitled
Alterations to the "reasons" section will be needed, the philosophical claims made are somewhat controversial, and in many ways misleading eg "shares great similarities with this philosopher" if no adaption can be made, it may be best to leave those comments out entirely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.106.215.21 (talk) 13:17, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I've been adding a few tidbits of info from Ian Kelley's guide that I remember reading. After I'm done, I'll credit him.--Morzas Merix 16:38, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

I've added the descriptions of the three "Reasons" of the game a while ago, but I finally speak of it here... *ahem* -- Delf 06:26, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Changed the part claiming that there is no first-person viewpoint in SMTIII:N. When a new game is started off a 'clear' save, pressing the 'select' button will switch to and from first-person view. --BCalchet 01:34, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Requesting someone re-write the kotowari area, as they are poorly written. --McDohl 01:56, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Somebody needs to include a general storyline in this article. The Shin Megami Tensei 1 had more information than this, and that's not saying alot considering its such an old series. -Izaak

Someone could take some info from this reliable page and add it to this page. At least the character descriptions, version differences, and a shortened storyline should be added to this article. I might add some stuff later but I´m too busy now. --Wolfhunter987 12:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I removed the "Founded By" bits at the end of the Reasons section for a few reasons. Redkun 22:00, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * They are outside the Spoiler tags.
 * The information on who creates which Reason is clearly found in the Characters section.
 * The information was incorrect.
 * The Assembly of Nihilo is a puppet organisation for Hikawa. It is Hikawa who creates the Shijima Reason.
 * Gozu-Tennoh does not found the Yosuga Reason. There is a difference between Gozu-Tennoh's beliefs (a world based upon fear) and Chiaki's beliefs (a world with only the strong), although they amount to many of the same things. Gozu-Tennoh states this in the game.

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Press quotes section
The X-Play quote needs a more specific link. I tried searching around their site, but I can't find any list of Best RPGs for 2004, and any way that I searched for "Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne" kept resulting in the Persona 3 review instead. So, if somebody with better search-fu can find a citation for that, it would be great. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr. Shoeless (talk • contribs) 14:40, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Ubisoft
Ubisoft... publisher? since when...? --Hydao (talk) 06:12, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Fixed that. Ubisoft was just the distributor in EU. Punkalyptic (talk) 11:51, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

A lot of the information regarding the characters is very wrong...
A lot of the background information are simply opinions inserted by users who wrote the page and much is factually inaccurate. Isamu and Chiaki in particular. Then you have the hints of the Demi-fiend's character which is also inaccurate. This is based off the information from the 1UP interview with Kazuma Kaneko.

http://www.1up.com/features/shin-megami-tensei-nocturne

He and the other story writers purposely kept the backgrounds ambiguous for player interpretation. And where did this stuff about Chiaki hating the 'lesser citizens' come from? She wanted to kill the Manikins for their Magatsuchi to summon her goddess of virtue and glory. She 'descended' into Yosuga because she was nearly killed by the Manikin Sakahagi. She went searching for Yuko and Isamu in the beginning of the game so I don't see where this 'didn't seek others help' nonsense even came from. That wasn't until she resolved that the old world was truly gone.

Isamu was never confident. He was arrogant, self-centered, and brash. Him going through a hospital isn't an indication of any strength of character especially since he begs the main character to go search the basement of the hospital because he's far too frightened. He relied on people from the start up until he gets angry for no reason and goes to stay in a world of his own. His theme was 'solitude' not 'doing whatever he wanted'. This is shown in his own ending. You see his GRAVE and the message basically says he didn't give a damn about the world anymore. It's meant to make the analogy that 'solitude' is a type of 'death' in and of itself. I'm appalled that you got his character so wrong...

Then you have Hikawa, he shows emotion to Yuko as well by belittling her. You also didn't mentioned that Aradia is the Goddess of Falsehoods. That's pretty important in understanding who or what Aradia really is and can do if given power.

Sorry for the rant... I'm wondering if perhaps I could be allowed to edit, add, and fix some of this because it's just... well, wrong and misleading information. The Truthful night (talk) 23:12, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

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SMT3 listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect SMT3. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. signed,Rosguill talk 18:25, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Rename to Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne
While this is the name the title goes by in Japan, in America it was released without the number, and thus was listed as such. However, a remaster is being created for modern consoles, using the numbering in addition to Nocturne. As such, it should be assume that this is the "official" English title of the game going forward, and therefore the article should be renamed to match. Buh6173 (talk) 04:20, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
 * That's not how VG articles work to my knowledge - we keep the original name - as this is an article on the initial release, with information about the remaster. The article should be changed back to how it was. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 06:23, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
 * If the WP:COMMONNAME for Nocturne in English-language reliable sources changes, it may be worth revisiting (like how our Persona 3 article no longer includes the SMT supertitle from that game's English PS2 release), but I think it's too early to make that call now. Wait until the HD remaster has been out for a while, and see if RSs include the numeral or not when referring to the game in general (not just the HD remaster in particular). I'm seeing some RSs do this already - IGN, Polygon, USgamer - so it could very well be that we will see a shift from "SMT: Nocturne" to "SMT3: Nocturne".
 * I disagree with Lee's comment that the article's scope is (or should be) limited to the initial release of the game - these are all fundamentally the same video game, and the North American release that we derive the article title from isn't even the initial release (or a translation thereof), as the English localization is based on the expanded 2004 re-release Nocturne Maniax.--AlexandraIDV 17:14, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I support the rename. See Dragon Quest II or Dragon Quest III for example, they were released as Dragon Warrior II & III originally. But the game is no longer officially known as Dragon Warrior. Should be noted that originally, this is called Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne in Japan, Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne in North America, and Shin Megami Tensei: Lucifer's Call in Europe, but the remaster will call it Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne everywhere. --81.22.18.50 (talk) 06:14, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Should we consider running a vote now on changing vs keeping? Buh6173 (talk) 02:26, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Well, I attempted a move, but it didn't work, and it got undone. Alexandra, if you want to move it yourself, by all means. Buh6173 (talk) 22:20, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 13 August 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Moved  &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 07:01, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne → Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne – Game was originally called III: Nocturne in Japan, but in US dropped the III (in Europe it was called "Lucifer's Call)". In the new rerelease, it is "III: Nocturne" in all regions, including US. Talk page has been slow, but consensus is in favor of a move. Can't automatically move due to III Nocturne existing as a redirect. Buh6173 (talk) 08:31, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink).    Kadzi    (talk) 09:01, 13 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Neutral – This move requires formal discussion before it's progressed - as it was added at uncontroversial technical moves.    Kadzi    (talk) 09:01, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 09:55, 13 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Support Buh6173 (talk) 15:33, 13 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Support' Only if the old names are mentioned. Still, was this name also announced for the Western version or just the Japanese version?Tintor2 (talk) 15:41, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The HD re-release is "III: Nocturne" in all regions. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 18:32, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Might ping him since he made this article GA too.Tintor2 (talk) 15:52, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Neutral: As long as it's noted that its numeral was originally Japanese-exclusive, I don't mind a move. The main point we must consider for the move is, will the numeral become the overwhelming identifier for the title, which was known until less than a month ago by that title without the numeral depending on region. --ProtoDrake (talk) 18:47, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

So, seeing how it's been a week, can we call this? Buh6173 (talk) 19:12, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Support. I wanted to wait a bit see, and English sources have moved toward including the numeral recently even when talking about the original PS2 game. I think this shift makes sense - the series was almost unknown outside Japan when the PS2 version was translated, whereas now SMT4 and 5 are big names in the RPG world internationally. We should still make sure to mention "SMT: Nocturne" and "SMT: Lucifer's Call", however.--AlexandraIDV 04:45, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Mention of Dante in place of Raidou Kuzunoha in plot
Since the first English release of Nocturne included Dante, shouldn't this article mention him in the first plot section. I'm pretty sure the European version of Nocturne also included Dante. Only the Japanese versions removed the character. Either way Raidou Kuzuonoha's role could also be explained.Tintor2 (talk) 16:10, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Just to clear things up, since there's some uncertainties in your post:
 * The original Japan-only release does not contain Dante, Raidou, or the Amala Labyrinth (where several of the encounters with Dante/Raidou take place).
 * The expanded "director's cut" version, Maniax, contains Dante and the Amala Labyrinth. This is the version that was released in English, in NA and Europe.
 * The later Japanese-only re-release Chronicle Edition replaces the Dante encounters with Raidou, presumably to avoid having to make a new deal with DMC owner Capcom.
 * The HD remaster is based on Chronicle Edition, but has DLC that lets you replace Raidou with Dante again.
 * Regardless, I agree that it would be good to briefly describe Dante/Raidou's role in the plot. I will not be the one to do so, though, at least not until the remaster comes out, as my Japanese is not good enough to play JRPGs in Japanese and I thus haven't personally experienced the scenes with Raidou.--AlexandraIDV 16:43, 28 October 2020 (UTC)


 * I see. Gamefaqs has the the entire script from the Western versions if citations are needed.Tintor2 (talk) 17:09, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Recommendation for removal from Category: Cyberpunk video games
I'll leave it to the actual Wikipedians to actually make a decision on this and/or consider a change, but I would like to propose that SMT Nocturne is not a game in the Cyberpunk genre, and should be removed from that category. Certain games in the greater Megami Tensei franchise are good candidates for inclusion in the category (Digital Devil Saga and Soul Hackers come to mind), but Nocturne is clearly missing several key elements that are definitive of the cyberpunk genre. 96.244.70.116 (talk) 22:12, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Agree, and done, especially as there is no mention of cyberpunk in the actual article text.--AlexandraIDV 22:14, 18 December 2020 (UTC)