Talk:Shing (Hainish Cycle)

Alterrans violent?
They seem peaceful unless attacked, as are their human ancestors in Planet of Exile. The whole issue is unclear.

The big problem is that Le Guin's later works shift the assumptions. The 'Age of the Enemy' seems to have vanished and there are no humans other than descendant of Hainish settlers. This begins with the short story Vaster than empires and more slow and is maintained in later works. --GwydionM (talk) 16:58, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Proposed shift to "Hainish Cycle" article
I wonder if "Shing" would not be better left as a stand-alone article - with the appropriate links and cross references already in place. The "Hamish Cycle" article is a very good piece of work but, by the nature of the subject, it does sprawl across large tracts of topic, time and space. The Shing would easily be lost sight of in such a jungle.

If "Shing" is to be merged then perhaps it would be better done with "City of Illusions". While Ursula Le Gunin's most memorable alien race is apparently referred to briefly as a far-off menace ("the Enemy") in other Hainish Cycle novels, it is only in "City" that they take on a visible and substantive form.Buistr (talk) 22:10, 4 November 2009 (UTC))

Shing interbreeding
Ramarren is the produce of interbreeding between Earth-humans and the native hominids. The Shing are reluctant to believe this, leading him to believe that they have been unable to do this themselves. Nothing is explicitly said about whether there is sex between Shing and humans, though it would seem likely that it occurs. Nor is his belief in the lack of interbreeding actually confirmed, though it does fit the plot.

Note that in Planet of Exile, the Earth-humans initially cannot interbreed with the native hominids, and are also immune to local bacteria. Her view seems to be that the humans adapt mentally and can then interbreed. Not very scientific, but it is the rule she chooses to define for her story.

As an extra compliction, she later seems to shift assumption and have all the hominids as settlers from Hain.--GwydionM (talk) 14:59, 10 July 2011 (UTC)


 * An added description to support that there is no interbreeding between Shing and Humans, is the depiction of each Shing as avoiding touching anyone else, and above all else, being completely locked up in themselves, remote, keeping excellent telepathic guard. 92.110.13.113 (talk) 23:37, 5 February 2016 (UTC)


 * In addition to portraying her aliens as remote in manner, Ursula LeGuin does tackle the somewhat esoteric issue of Shing/Human sex directly at one point in "City of Illusions" (page 113). With some embarrassment the youthful Orry tells Ramarren that the collaborator Estrel could not be a Shing since she had slept with him during their journey to Es Toch. Buistr (talk) 04:24, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Reverence for Life
Shing only wanting to kill? There is a reference of Ramarren/Falk thinking this at some point towards the end of the book, hinting that this is why they establish this one rule, to keep themselves from doing what they most would want. Is anyone on this page in accord if I make that change? --ThomasKortvelyessy — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.110.13.113 (talk) 23:33, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Improvements and corrections are welcome - I don't think that this is one of the Wiki-articles cursed with ownership issues. But with respect to Shing killing instincts doesn't LeGuinn have Ramarren/Falk conclude on the penultimate page (158); "They were afraid to kill and afraid to die, and called their fear Reverence for Life"? Her thinly-spread aliens manipulate brutalized humans to commit violence against each other but seem genuinely incapable of directly destroying life themselves (page 143).Buistr (talk) 05:05, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Shing (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 07:49, 30 November 2019 (UTC)